I am not giving up on Kyle Orton

[dayman]

Explain?

 

I really don't mean to be a dick or go on a rant. I would simply point to having serious accuracy problems and serious decision-making problems at the same time. I know he's young, I've seen a lot of young QBs. EJ is a bad young QB, by young QB standards.

[Gray Beard]

Orton's lack of mobility is a problem. Even Peyton and Brady can sense the rush and move around in the pocket, and they are NOT known for their mobility. Orton just throws the ball away or takes the sack. That is a huge problem.

I would like to see if EJ can learn to use his strength and mobility to get himself out of trouble in the pocket. His throwing accuracy, however, is another problem altogether.

[Augie]

http://29.media.tumb...2sp7jo1_400.gif

Those deck chairs are a mess! Can someone give me a hand with those?

[Doc]

Two huge games (KC and MIA) that really shaped the Bills playoff chances and he played like hot garbage. Utterly dissapointing!

I hear you. The last drive was incredibly deflating.

I have not given up on EJ either, let time run its course....we will see.

Fair enough.

[26CornerBlitz]

Orton's lack of mobility is a problem. Even Peyton and Brady can sense the rush and move around in the pocket, and they are NOT known for their mobility. Orton just throws the ball away or takes the sack. That is a huge problem.

I would like to see if EJ can learn to use his strength and mobility to get himself out of trouble in the pocket. His throwing accuracy, however, is another problem altogether.

 

Definitely a huge concern. I'd like to see EJ with a real HC/OC with true understanding of modern offensive concepts that work in today's NFL.

[dayman]

Definitely a huge concern. I'd like to see EJ with a real HC/OC with true understanding of modern offensive concepts that work in today's NFL.

 

I just can't think of an example where a QB that had huge accuracy problems early became a good passer. I would love to hear a few, and I know guys improve...but they don't really learn how to throw on the job. There's a lot that goes into being a QB but that doesn't make the act of throwing any less important, the best QBs are usually really gifted at throwing great balls.

[26CornerBlitz]

I just can't think of an example where a QB that had huge accuracy problems early became a good passer. I would love to hear a few, and I know guys improve...but they don't really learn how to throw on the job. There's a lot that goes into being a QB but that doesn't make the act of throwing any less important, the best QBs are usually really gifted at throwing great balls.

 

The maddening thing about EJ's accuracy is that it's not an issue all of the time, but you never know when it'll rear its ugly head. It seems to me it's a mechanics breakdown that he'll just have to get away from through repetition. Can he? Who knows.

Edited November 18, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[Augie]

I'd like to see EJ with better support in terms of coaching and OLine play, but having watched him since his FSU days, he just doesn't seem to have a natural talent for throwing an accurate ball. I really hope I'm wrong, and I love his intangibles, but I'm not encouraged. You keep hearing the term "mechanics" with EJ. My problem is he looks "mechanical" and not "natural". (Bonehead Winston on the other hand...)

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

The maddening thing about EJ's accuracy is that it's not all of the time, but you never know when it'll rear its ugly head. It seems to me it's a mechanics breakdown that he'll just have to get away from through repetition. Can he? Who knows.

i could be wrong but I think he went from having a lack of vet mentor and Coaching as a rookie to having too many people coaching him this year. He had his offseason QB coach, Downing, Hackett, Marrone, Orton. I think there was a ton of pressure on him, he was raw, and he was overthinking everything trying to be something he isn't. If he just went out there and played football without worrying about throwing a pick (like Bortles and Carr whose teams had little expectation) he might have done better overall. He isn't afforded the same learning curve as those guys because he was put on a team that wanted immediate results that it hadn't had in a decade and a half. It was like he was too afraid of losing the game to try to win the game. Edited November 18, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[26CornerBlitz]

i could be wrong but I think he went from having a lack of vet mentor and Coaching as a rookie to having too many people coaching him this year. He had his offseason QB coach, Downing, Hackett, Marrone, Orton. I think there was a ton of pressure on him, he was raw, and he was overthinking everything trying to be something he isn't. If he just went out there and played football without worrying about throwing a pick (like Bortles and Carr whose teams had little expectation) he might have done better overall. He isn't afforded the same learning curve as those guys because he was put on a team that wanted immediate results that it hadn't had in a decade and a half. It was like he was too afraid of losing the game to try to win the game.

 

Good assessment.

[dayman]

I'd like to see EJ with better support in terms of coaching and OLine play, but having watched him since his FSU days, he just doesn't seem to have a natural talent for throwing an accurate ball. I really hope I'm wrong, and I love his intangibles, but I'm not encouraged. You keep hearing the term "mechanics" with EJ. My problem is he looks "mechanical" and not "natural". (Bonehead Winston on the other hand...)

 

Sums up why I'm done with EJ perfectly. He just doesn't have the arm talent and you can see it. Also, it's not like he's showing signs of grasping defenses either...nor was he asked to do much at FSU. Honestly, based on how he operated at FSU, I think he was somewhat surprised when the NFL asked him to go out and win the game throwing as a QB--right now. Almost all rookies that are lucky enough to start are asked to do that...most fail...but it's about how you fail. You can't fail in the way where fans think you can't throw.

Edited November 18, 2014 by MoreOffense

[Captain Hindsight]

The maddening thing about EJ's accuracy is that it's not an issue all of the time, but you never know when it'll rear its ugly head. It seems to me it's a mechanics breakdown that he'll just have to get away from through repetition. Can he? Who knows.

To me it looks more about confidence and timing. Just a bit unsure so he hesitates. Love to see him just go and rip it, because he has the talent.

 

I agree with his detractors on one point, if he can't play with confidence, he cannot be a starter week in and week out.

 

Sums up why I'm done with EJ perfectly. He just doesn't have the arm talent and you can see it. Also, it's not like he's showing signs of grasping defenses either...nor was he asked to do much at FSU. Honestly, based on how he operated at FSU, I think he was somewhat surprised when the NFL asked him to go out and win the game throwing as a QB--right now. Almost all rookies that are lucky enough to start are asked to do that...most fail...but it's about how you fail. You can't fail in the way where fans think you can't throw.

His arm talent is fine, he can make every throw at this level.

 

He plays tight, just let loose EJ

[The Wiz]

Sums up why I'm done with EJ perfectly. He just doesn't have the arm talent and you can see it. Also, it's not like he's showing signs of grasping defenses either...nor was he asked to do much at FSU. Honestly, based on how he operated at FSU, I think he was somewhat surprised when the NFL asked him to go out and win the game throwing as a QB--right now. Almost all rookies that are lucky enough to start are asked to do that...most fail...but it's about how you fail. You can't fail in the way where fans think you can't throw.

Who was the last rookie that was asked to win a football game with his arm starting right away? I can think of Luck. Who else played their first game as a rookie and was expected to win the game for them recently (with their arm I should say, Newton, RG3 and Wilson are runners that pass every now and then).

Edited November 18, 2014 by The Wiz

[#34fan]

I give up on Marrackett.

 

The Offensive staff MUST GO immediately.. Me, you, and everyone else on the board gave them a fair chance... With which they did NOTHING!

 

These clowns need to GTF outta dodge before the FIRE MARRONE & HACKETT signs pop up at the Ralph. It's official. They both suck.

[26CornerBlitz]

Who was the last rookie that was asked to win a football game with his arm starting right away? I can think of Luck. Who else played their first game as a rookie and was expected to win the game for them recently?

 

RG3 had a great rookie campaign, but has fallen off since. Cam Newton did also.

[dayman]

Who was the last rookie that was asked to win a football game with his arm starting right away? I can think of Luck. Who else played their first game as a rookie and was expected to win the game for them recently (with their arm I should say, Newton, RG3 and Wilson are runners that pass every now and then).

 

Asked and expected are different things. And as I said almost all fail, it is about how you fail. EJ has failed spectacularly.

 

I'm not in any way saying he has to be rookie Cam/RGIII/Luck etc. I'm saying he has to show he can throw. He's played enough games to prove it will never be a strength.

Edited November 18, 2014 by MoreOffense

[The Wiz]

RG3 had a great rookie campaign, but has fallen off since. Cam Newton did also.

They did, I agree. And now defenses know how to play them... or hurt them.

[26CornerBlitz]

Asked and expected are different things. And as I said almost all fail, it is about how you fail. EJ has failed spectacularly.

 

You exaggerate greatly.

[The Wiz]

Asked and expected are different things. And as I said almost all fail, it is about how you fail. EJ has failed spectacularly.

 

I'm not in any way saying he has to be rookie Cam/RGIII/Luck etc. I'm saying he has to show he can throw. He's played enough games to prove it will never be a strength.

Well did Marrone/Whaley/Hackett ask or expect him to win games with his arm since you know.

[Augie]

i could be wrong but I think he went from having a lack of vet mentor and Coaching as a rookie to having too many people coaching him this year. He had his offseason QB coach, Downing, Hackett, Marrone, Orton. I think there was a ton of pressure on him, he was raw, and he was overthinking everything trying to be something he isn't. If he just went out there and played football without worrying about throwing a pick (like Bortles and Carr whose teams had little expectation) he might have done better overall. He isn't afforded the same learning curve as those guys because he was put on a team that wanted immediate results that it hadn't had in a decade and a half. It was like he was too afraid of losing the game to try to win the game.

 

I think you nailed it. Too many voices. Too high of expectations because the team was good enough to win. Too much fear of messing up. But can he learn to relax and be a natural thrower of the ball? The 14 year old gazillion dollar question.