Chuck Pagano and Mike Smith are worse than Marrone

[GunnerBill]

My main point being here. The Falcons went 4-12 last year with that stud, first round pick at QB starting every game all year. It just shows that even playoff QB's can't overcome a bad team.

 

Correct, but that rather negates your argument that Mike Smith wouldn't allow a scrub like Pears to play on his o-line. The Atlanta o-line has been atrocious for a year and a half and he has neither found a way to coach it up or demanded his GM replace players. He is in exactly the same boat as Marrone from that respect for me and it is killing both of their football teams. Both are likely going to pay with their jobs.

[34-78-83]

Uhhhhh...okay. If you say so. So if other teams punt from the 40 on 4th and 1 they are smart but Marrone is dumb? Do I have that right?

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying.... I was agreeing with your point, sarcasm and all. In fact I'm surprised that anyone still carried that point (I'm glad you do) at all or did they all just buy into the WGR analaytics theories as facts already.

Edited November 17, 2014 by 34-78-83

[apuszczalowski]

If we had Andrew Luck or Matt Ryan we'd be 8-2.

 

May be even 9-1.

So then its not the coaching thats a problem (Head and Offensive) its the QB? So why are we running Hackett and Marrone out of town?

 

Why doesn't this make me feel better? Maybe it is because the Bills themselves could have had Arians. In fact, the Cardinals wanted Marrone over Arians too -- but the Bills swooped in first.

So what you are saying is that the Cardinals front office is just as inept as everyone thinks the Bills front office is, except they got lucky the Bills picked Marrone and they lucked out getting a guy that wasn't their first choice?

[The Big Cat]

So then its not the coaching thats a problem (Head and Offensive) its the QB? So why are we running Hackett and Marrone out of town?

 

So what you are saying is that the Cardinals front office is just as inept as everyone thinks the Bills front office is, except they got lucky the Bills picked Marrone and they lucked out getting a guy that wasn't their first choice?

 

I couldn't tell ya. I'm watching receivers drop passes, lineman whiff at blocks and backs missing holes and all anyone can scream about is playcalling.

[reddogblitz]

Uhhhhh...okay. If you say so. So if other teams punt from the 40 on 4th and 1 they are smart but Marrone is dumb? Do I have that right?

 

This whole punt on 4th down has taken on a life of it's own here at TBD. It has become the litmus test for coaches.

 

There's a reason most coaches punt on 4th down. Because going for it more often than not doesn't work.

[BuffOrange]

This whole punt on 4th down has taken on a life of it's own here at TBD. It has become the litmus test for coaches.

 

There's a reason most coaches punt on 4th down. Because going for it more often than not doesn't work.

 

Yeah, they understand the value of field position - it's the most important thing in the world.

Unless they have 4th&goal from the 2 in which case, it's not even part of the equation.

[PromoTheRobot]

This whole punt on 4th down has taken on a life of it's own here at TBD. It has become the litmus test for coaches.

 

There's a reason most coaches punt on 4th down. Because going for it more often than not doesn't work.

 

Of course it does. Just like not wearing a headset was an indictment of Wade Phillips coaching acumen. We here at TBD are always looking for that hidden yet obvious indicator. The one stat or habit or facial tick that always predicts the future.

[The Big Cat]

Of course it does. Just like not wearing a headset was an indictment of Wade Phillips coaching acumen. We here at TBD are always looking for that hidden yet obvious indicator. The one stat or habit or facial tick that always predicts the future.

 

Obviously.

[thewildrabbit]

I couldn't tell ya. I'm watching receivers drop passes, lineman whiff at blocks and backs missing holes and all anyone can scream about is playcalling.

Simply because that is all related to bad coaching! After the Miami game both Phil Simms & Deion Sanders say it wasn't the QB, it was the coaching / playcalling.

 

Nearly last in the league on offense, and worst in the league in the red zone with a supposed offensive guru as HC. This coaching staff has almost buried itself with ineptitude, and I for one am grateful we have new owners who will make changes

[The Big Cat]

Simply because that is all related to bad coaching! After the Miami game both Phil Simms & Deion Sanders say it wasn't the QB, it was the coaching / playcalling.

 

Nearly last in the league on offense, and worst in the league in the red zone with a supposed offensive guru as HC. This coaching staff has almost buried itself with ineptitude, and I for one am grateful we have new owners who will make changes

 

So when Watkins was running free to the endzone and Orton overthrew him, that was a ****ty play call?

 

Also, the only people calling Marrone an "offensive guru" are the ones attempting to use the label against him.

 

And, you're right, the coaching staff is buried in ineptitude. Yeah. Crossman and Schwartz, two total bums this year.

[thewildrabbit]

So when Watkins was running free to the endzone and Orton overthrew him, that was a ****ty play call?

 

Also, the only people calling Marrone an "offensive guru" are the ones attempting to use the label against him.

 

And, you're right, the coaching staff is buried in ineptitude. Yeah. Crossman and Schwartz, two total bums this year.

ahhh, one of the last Marrone lovers on this site. How nice.

 

Why not look at just how bad the current offense is under a head coach who has all his previous experience as an ex NFL O line player, ex NFL O line coach, ex NFL offensive coordinator. Should we just call him a very crappy coach instead of a supposed guru?

 

Then you have a head coach so determined to help his best bud on special teams by having an extra kicker on the roster just to kick balls out of the end zone. Then if that isn't enough he deactivates a decent red zone threat to have another player on coverage's for his special teams buddy. That must be one of those "Just In Case" things because he does have the extra kicker to get the ball out of the end zone.

 

An guy who is out on the field in preseason helping coach the O line, only to field the very worst O line in the league. Yea, he knows his stuff Now I know where you stand.

[The Big Cat]

ahhh, one of the last Marrone lovers on this site. How nice.

 

Why not look at just how bad the current offense is under a head coach who has all his previous experience as an ex NFL O line player, ex NFL O line coach, ex NFL offensive coordinator. Should we just call him a very crappy coach instead of a supposed guru?

 

Then you have a head coach so determined to help his best bud on special teams by having an extra kicker on the roster just to kick balls out of the end zone. Then if that isn't enough he deactivates a decent red zone threat to have another player on coverage's for his special teams buddy. That must be one of those "Just In Case" things because he does have the extra kicker to get the ball out of the end zone.

 

An guy who is out on the field in preseason helping coach the O line, only to field the very worst O line in the league. Yea, he knows his stuff Now I know where you stand.

 

You spend an awful lot of time on a message board devoted to a team you hate.

[Manther]

The biggest difference between Pagano and Smith vs Marrone is.....Pagano and Smith seem to be respected by their players.

[thewildrabbit]

You spend an awful lot of time on a message board devoted to a team you hate.

I like the team, the players, and the new owners. I just can't stand loser coaches, and I can't stand all the losing. While the defense has been terrific, they can't make up for just how bad the offense has been. Near last in almost every offensive category, and dead last in the red zone TD's.

 

I can't wait for next seasons changes to a coaching staff that actually knows what they are doing. Its been a long frustrating 14 years, and I'm ecstatic that the Bills will finally have a chance become relevant again in the AFC East.

 

I'm fairly sure you will see a much happier version of me next season.

[FireChan]

I like the team, the players, and the new owners. I just can't stand loser coaches, and I can't stand all the losing. While the defense has been terrific, they can't make up for just how bad the offense has been. Near last in almost every offensive category, and dead last in the red zone TD's.

 

I can't wait for next seasons changes to a coaching staff that actually knows what they are doing. Its been a long frustrating 14 years, and I'm ecstatic that the Bills will finally have a chance become relevant again in the AFC East.

 

I'm fairly sure you will see a much happier version of me next season.

 

I doubt it.

[NoSaint]

 

 

So when Watkins was running free to the endzone and Orton overthrew him, that was a ****ty play call?

 

Also, the only people calling Marrone an "offensive guru" are the ones attempting to use the label against him.

 

And, you're right, the coaching staff is buried in ineptitude. Yeah. Crossman and Schwartz, two total bums this year.

 

What exactly do you think marrone is exceptional at?

 

If he's not an oline guru, or offensive guru - do you find him to be exceptional at managing in game? Why is marrone the guy that you defend? What makes him the next great coach?

 

His ability to pick coordinators that look good if handed top 5 talent?

Edited November 19, 2014 by NoSaint

[Max997]

Just thought I would try to make people feel a little better that the Bills have company in the bad coaching department.

 

Pagano should be fired at season's end cancer or not. Arians would have that team 9-1.

 

Mike Smith has been awful for years. He is so bad he is taking down the whole NFC South.

 

I will never understand why some people think another teams misfortunes would make Bills fans feel better...why would it?

 

How would Arians an offensive coach have the Colts a really good offensive team at 9 - 1 when their problem is mostly on the defensive side?

 

Im not a Mike Smith fan but the Falcons are in first place correct?

Edited November 19, 2014 by Max997

[All_Pro_Bills]

Yeah, they understand the value of field position - it's the most important thing in the world.

Unless they have 4th&goal from the 2 in which case, it's not even part of the equation.

For sure punting or going for the 1st is a matter of playing field position but its also situational management. You're not going to punt for field position on 4th down from the opponents 41 yard line if you're trailing by 4 points with a minute left and no timeouts. We can all agree with that. And in the 1st quarter of a 3-3 game you might punt because its early and no need for taking the risk in most cases. This makes a lot of sense too.

 

The issue most point out with coaches deciding to punt in opponent territory is situational. Take the Miami game. If I recall correctly, with something like 9:30 left and down two scores coach Marrone chose to punt on 4th and 6. 6 yards is a high risk and no gimme for certain.

 

But in that situation

you're down 2 scores,

your offense is having red zone issues,

you've only managed 3 FGs to that point and maybe you don't sniff the other side of the 50 for the rest of the game,

you might get a possession two,

and Miami's offense has been moving the ball well in the 2nd half so other than the opponent burning more clock what's the difference if they drive down the field from the 20 or the 40?

 

So maybe you take a shot at that point in the game rather than punt? Not going for the 1st in that situation also gives off the vibe of being timid and scared and that you have no confidence in your offense to pick it up and no confidence in your defense to defend a shorter field. In the Thursday night game after that punt it sent me the message that the Bills had more or less conceded the game.

Edited November 19, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills

[BuffOrange]

For sure punting or going for the 1st is a matter of playing field position but its also situational management. You're not going to punt for field position on 4th down from the opponents 41 yard line if you're trailing by 4 points with a minute left and no timeouts. We can all agree with that. And in the 1st quarter of a 3-3 game you might punt because its early and no need for taking the risk in most cases. This makes a lot of sense too.

 

The issue most point out with coaches deciding to punt in opponent territory is situational. Take the Miami game. If I recall correctly, with something like 9:30 left and down two scores coach Marrone chose to punt on 4th and 6. 6 yards is a high risk and no gimme for certain.

 

But in that situation

you're down 2 scores,

your offense is having red zone issues,

you've only managed 3 FGs to that point and maybe you don't sniff the other side of the 50 for the rest of the game,

you might get a possession two,

and Miami's offense has been moving the ball well in the 2nd half so other than the opponent burning more clock what's the difference if they drive down the field from the 20 or the 40?

 

So maybe you take a shot at that point in the game rather than punt? Not going for the 1st in that situation also gives off the vibe of being timid and scared and that you have no confidence in your offense to pick it up and no confidence in your defense to defend a shorter field. In the Thursday night game after that punt it sent me the message that the Bills had more or less conceded the game.

 

Haha I was being sarcastic. If you fail on 4th&Goal, having the other team pinned down isn't a bad consolation. Since 3 is only 42% of 7, you don't even have to be successful half the time for going for it to be correct in the 1st Qtr of a 0-0 game (and that's not even factoring in the ~18yds of field position you gain from failing vs a kickoff...the same field position that coaches like Marrone covet like their first born child).

 

Once you get past the math, the idiot conservative announcer guy then needs to grasp at ridiculous abstract concepts like 'momentum' to make their case. Which of course runs totally contrary with what Aaron Williams said the other day (basically - "take a chance, we'll bail you out if you get stopped") but whatever.

[reddogblitz]

Once you get past the math, the idiot conservative announcer guy then needs to grasp at ridiculous abstract concepts like 'momentum' to make their case. Which of course runs totally contrary with what Aaron Williams said the other day (basically - "take a chance, we'll bail you out if you get stopped") but whatever.

 

Ray Lewis says momentum is HUGE in football.

 

3 may be 42% of 7, but what is your percentage of time you get in on 4th and 1? That plays heavily into it too.

 

I graduated from the Tom Landry school of coaching. Kick the FG and take the points.