1B4IDie Posted November 17, 2014 Author Posted November 17, 2014 Not to bring this thread back to life, but yes "purposely tanking" in the sense that the team has absolutely no talent. I'm sure they try and give it their all every night. But look at who Murray has brought in. The Sabres are the least talented team in the NHL and Murray set it up that way to "tank" and acquire talent through high draft picks. Very similar to the Colts, if you need an NFL analogy. So you are saying the Buffalo Bills will have a better on field product because Terry Pegula is the type of owner that condones wasting a season by tanking. Interesting.
Wayne Cubed Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 If you look back we've had this for the past 10 years or so. Huh? 2012/13 - Prospects ranked 13th 2011/12 - Prospects ranked 15th 2010/11 - Prospects ranked outside the top 10 2009/2010 - Prospects ranked outside the top 10 2014/15 - Prospects ranked 1st, and this is before having 3 first round picks in the draft. So you are saying the Buffalo Bills will have a better on field product because Terry Pegula is the type of owner that condones wasting a season by tanking. Interesting. That's not what I'm saying at all. Go read your OP, you brought Terry Pegula's handling of the Sabres into the discussion. My point has been all along that Mr. Pegula is doing what is necessary to make the Sabres a better team. I never said he would do the same thing with the BIlls. In fact I said Apples to Oranges. But carry on trying to compare how a team in the NHL is run and how a new owner of a NFL team will run.
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 So you are saying the Buffalo Bills will have a better on field product because Terry Pegula is the type of owner that condones wasting a season by tanking. Interesting. What was the alternative? Roy, Pommers, Vanek, Miller and Ott all wanted out so they got great value for them. None of them wanted to be part of a rebuild! This plan is way better than the previous regime that would hope for an 8th place finish and a first round exit. Please tell me what the Sabres should have done? If your answer is to sign a bunch of aging Vets to make a run at the 8th playoff spot then you are lost.
fridge Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Fans citing prospect rankings as facts has to be the saddest thing I've come across here.
GG Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Fans citing prospect rankings as facts has to be the saddest thing I've come across here. Not quite as bad as fans misunderstanding the discussion.
1B4IDie Posted November 17, 2014 Author Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) What was the alternative? Roy, Pommers, Vanek, Miller and Ott all wanted out so they got great value for them. None of them wanted to be part of a rebuild! This plan is way better than the previous regime that would hope for an 8th place finish and a first round exit. Please tell me what the Sabres should have done? If your answer is to sign a bunch of aging Vets to make a run at the 8th playoff spot then you are lost. You people keep master debating about Sabres move. My point is simply Pegula can't snap his fingers and make the 2015 Buffalo Bills on field product better. You can draw comparisons to his ownership style from looking at the Sabres; Absolutely you can. The only logic for not drawing the comparison is based on denial that the Bills have a long rebuilding process filled with more Losses than wins in the near future. "Oh the Sabres are totally different cause you see even though they were a few points out of 8th place and a playoff seed when Pegula took over they totally sucked where as the Bills are a few wins out of the 6th seed and don't totally suck, It is a totally different ballgame" Is the best explanation that anyone can draw as to why the Sabres rebuild will be totally different than the Bills. Corner stone players like Kyle Williams, Mario Williams CJ, Fred Jackson won't be here long. Just like Vanek, Miller, and Pommers. There seems to be a belief in Pegula dust evidenced by nothing. That somehow the mere change in ownership in of its own will make the Buffalo Bills a better team on the field of play. The Bills on the field are stuck in the mud and need a plan to get out. I'm looking forward to seeing what the plan will entail. In no way do I believe Pegula is a bad person, bad businessman, or bad citizen. I like the guy. Any expectations for rapid improvements in on the field performance by the Buffalo Bills are based solely on imagination and speculation. As of right now there is no plan for the Buffalo Bills except status quo. Edited November 17, 2014 by Why So Serious?
May Day 10 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) you and I do not have any clue what the current specific plans are for the Bills. I feel pretty confident in my feeling that they didnt spent $1.4 Billion to go with the status quo and have a couple meaningful games in December in a 15 year span. Its not just the prospect pool either. It is everything surrounding the Sabres, the arena, development of the area, money in the ancillary un-salary-capped areas such as scouting. They are in the long game to have sustained success. Not hoping for lightning to strike and the Sabres to someday make the playoffs one season (like we are currently with the Bills). Their goal for the Sabres (and I would assume its translatable to the Bills) is for long term and sustained success at or near the top of the league. There is no "dust" to make this happen... but there is the strong desire to make this long term high end the biggest priority by a mile and not turning a profit if necessary. If you are talking in terms of 2015... Im not sure if its salvageable without a QB answer. QBs can be had though if they have the right people looking and there is desire. Arizona got Palmer, KC got Smith, Denver got Manning... But anyways, I see this as the start. Pegula hasnt been able to do anything because the team was above .500 and that would be foolish (at least he said so in an interview). At the end of the season, I expect/hope/want a power-broker to be installed at the top and that is the beginning. So I agree with you on "rapid" improvement. Long term plans is what has me thrilled. The cycle here (should) be broken. Edited November 17, 2014 by May Day 10
chris heff Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I don't know anything about the Sabres. What I do know is that because of the Pagulas the Bills are staying in Buffalo. I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but Ralph Wilson was not a good owner. He was good for the league. Wilson got lucky a few times, like when Polian became GM by default. I have no idea what the Pegulas will do, but what ever it is it will be better.
CodeMonkey Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I don't know anything about the Sabres. What I do know is that because of the Pagulas the Bills are staying in Buffalo. Correct. No one was pissing and moaning about the Pegulas when they thought the Bills would be leaving the area. In my opinion the Pegulas will be mostly hands off when it comes to the Bills in terms of personnel decisions etc. Pegula is a smart enough businessman to know the best way to be successful is to hire the best people you can and let them do their jobs. Hockey is his sport, but he cares a lot about the Buffalo area and made sure the Bills will be staying for the foreseeable future.
1B4IDie Posted November 17, 2014 Author Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) I don't know anything about the Sabres. What I do know is that because of the Pagulas the Bills are staying in Buffalo. I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but Ralph Wilson was not a good owner. He was good for the league. Wilson got lucky a few times, like when Polian became GM by default. I have no idea what the Pegulas will do, but what ever it is it will be better. right on. You are correct when you say "this post." So I agree with you on "rapid" improvement. Long term plans is what has me thrilled. The cycle here (should) be broken. Thank you and this is the point. There is a misconception that Pegula is going to fix the Bills on the field performance in the short term. I don't see any reason to believe that. Edited November 18, 2014 by Beerball
thebandit27 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 You people keep master debating about Sabres move. My point is simply Pegula can't snap his fingers and make the 2015 Buffalo Bills on field product better. There is not a single person in the universe that has said this...anywhere...ever. You are much smarter than this line of logic. You can draw comparisons to his ownership style from looking at the Sabres; Absolutely you can. The only logic for not drawing the comparison is based on denial that the Bills have a long rebuilding process filled with more Losses than wins in the near future. "Oh the Sabres are totally different cause you see even though they were a few points out of 8th place and a playoff seed when Pegula took over they totally sucked where as the Bills are a few wins out of the 6th seed and don't totally suck, It is a totally different ballgame" Is the best explanation that anyone can draw as to why the Sabres rebuild will be totally different than the Bills. Corner stone players like Kyle Williams, Mario Williams CJ, Fred Jackson won't be here long. Just like Vanek, Miller, and Pommers. Again: this is the NFL. It doesn't take 5-7 years to turn around a franchise if the right people (i.e. coach, GM) are in charge. There are countless examples like Indianapolis, Philadelphia, Detroit, etc. The NFL is vastly different...it typically takes years to change the culture of an organization. Again, countless examples in Chicago, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, etc. There's also no reason to think that Mario, Kyle, and Fred will be gone any time soon...that's basically a leap in logic with zero basis in fact whatsoever. Mario has 3 years left on his deal after 2014, Fred just signed an extension, and Kyle is under contract through 2016. There seems to be a belief in Pegula dust evidenced by nothing. That somehow the mere change in ownership in of its own will make the Buffalo Bills a better team on the field of play. I realize that the "Pegula dust" thing is an effort to be cheeky; I just don't see a single thing that anyone has said that is remotely in the spirit of what you're trying to be cheeky about. I think that the majority of folks expect the new owner(s) to make some much-needed changes like hiring a progressive head coach and making key free agent signings. If that's your definition of "Pegula dust", then yes, rational people should indeed believe in it. The Bills on the field are stuck in the mud and need a plan to get out. I'm looking forward to seeing what the plan will entail. In no way do I believe Pegula is a bad person, bad businessman, or bad citizen. I like the guy. I guess many of us are confused as to why you're seemingly downtrodden about his ability to turn the operation around... Any expectations for rapid improvements in on the field performance by the Buffalo Bills are based solely on imagination and speculation. As are any expectations for the team to remain merely on the cusp of being a playoff contender. As of right now there is no plan for the Buffalo Bills except status quo. There is, quite literally, no possibility that this is true. Unless by "right now" you mean for the remainder of the season, in which case, yes, that's true. However, I'm quite certain there will be organizational accountability moving forward.
May Day 10 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) there was a "Pegula-dust-esque" vibe to the Sabres in 2011. He came in, the Sabres went immediately from crappy to unbeatable... and should have beat a much better Philly team in the playoffs until Miller melted down in game 6. He told the media that he wanted their help to only write positive stories and thought he could actually pull that off. He bragged how he never had to fire employees and they performed very well as long as they were happy. He though Ruff and Regier were in 8th place... so logically Ruff and Regier in 8th place + $$$ = cups. It was all incredibly naive and he took a lot of lumps for that, learned a lot of lessons and eventually pulled the plug... which is what he should have done in 2011. I would think that the Sabres' experience hardened him a lot and prepared him to make tough and radical changes. Edited November 17, 2014 by May Day 10
CodeMonkey Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I realize that the "Pegula dust" thing is an effort to be cheeky; I just don't see a single thing that anyone has said that is remotely in the spirit of what you're trying to be cheeky about. I think that the majority of folks expect the new owner(s) to make some much-needed changes like hiring a progressive head coach and making key free agent signings. If that's your definition of "Pegula dust", then yes, rational people should indeed believe in it. As far as I know, the Pegulas do not have a football background at all (but I could be wrong). I know that he and his family have been hockey fans, and Sabres fans in particular, for a long time. I would not expect them to hire a coach, or make any free agent signings, or even be involved in the process until it comes time to sign someone. They are apparently hiring a consultant who does have football knowledge, which in my opinion is very smart and may give the Bills the advantage over the Sabres.
wnysteel Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 He is not a hatchet man. The axe is being finely honed as we speak........ you do realize, those two statements are in juxtaposition to each other?
thebandit27 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 As far as I know, the Pegulas do not have a football background at all (but I could be wrong). I know that he and his family have been hockey fans, and Sabres fans in particular, for a long time. I would not expect them to hire a coach, or make any free agent signings, or even be involved in the process until it comes time to sign someone. They are apparently hiring a consultant who does have football knowledge, which in my opinion is very smart and may give the Bills the advantage over the Sabres. I don't mean him specifically...I'm more referring to the idea that he'll look to make strides with the organization by adding quality people. If he does hire a consultant, I expect that to be good news for Whaley; bad news for Marrone.
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) All we know to this point is that Terry & Kim Pegula purchased the Bills from the Wilson estate for $1.4B and have made a commitment to keep the team in Buffalo. We know of TP's work to date with the Sabres but comparing that experience with the Bills probably isn't going to give any clues of where things are headed with the Bills. We've heard about the potential hiring of some football 'consultant' but that is just specuation at the moment. My suspicion is the evaluation process of the front office, the coaching staff, adminstrative staff, game operations, the players, etc., is already underway but nothing is going to be made public prior to the end of the season. I think there's a good collective understanding of what ails the Bills on this board and I can't help but believe that TP/KP are observing some of the same things our fellow board members are seeing on and off the field. And that they will conclude the weaknesses that need to be addressed are consistent with what most identify here, OC, HQ, QB, OL, to name a few. I expect the Pegula's will not be hesitant as Mr. Wilson was to spend funds on top-tier coaches or delegate power and authority to competent personnel 'experts' that will be brought in to manage the front office. So all options are open and any previous conceptions candidates have had in the past with regards to ownership will no longer exist. Money/pay level shouldn't be an issue and mostly how attractive the job is will matter. This I would think would be the first steps and it would happen pretty quickly after the season unless there are candidates of playoff teams they want to consider. Around the New Year we should see things start to happen. Edited November 17, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills
Jauronimo Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 How many NFL owners worked their to the top of the organization? Real football men. None.
plenzmd1 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Do they still televise hockey? Saturdays game was great!
1B4IDie Posted November 17, 2014 Author Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) There is, quite literally, no possibility that this is true. Unless by "right now" you mean for the remainder of the season, in which case, yes, that's true. However, I'm quite certain there will be organizational accountability moving forward. I guess that is the heart of the matter. I do not agree. I do not see any reason besides an article with an unnamed source that there will be a football person brought in. Only time will tell. I measure by results. So I will believe it when I see it. there was a "Pegula-dust-esque" vibe to the Sabres in 2011. He came in, the Sabres went immediately from crappy to unbeatable... and should have beat a much better Philly team in the playoffs until Miller melted down in game 6. He told the media that he wanted their help to only write positive stories and thought he could actually pull that off. He bragged how he never had to fire employees and they performed very well as long as they were happy. He though Ruff and Regier were in 8th place... so logically Ruff and Regier in 8th place + $$$ = cups. It was all incredibly naive and he took a lot of lumps for that, learned a lot of lessons and eventually pulled the plug... which is what he should have done in 2011. I would think that the Sabres' experience hardened him a lot and prepared him to make tough and radical changes. I guess we will see if Pegula lets Branden/Whaley/Marrone play this thing out or if he inserts a Football man. No one knows but I don't think it is a forgone conclusion. As much we would all like that to happen. Edited November 17, 2014 by Why So Serious?
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