Some thoughts re coaching, the GM and moving forward

[jahnyc]

Some thoughts below:

 

1. Our offense play calling was poor against the Dolphins, but what I found more troubliing was that the offense seemed unprepared for a scenario where they had to throw the ball because they were behind. The formations used were ineffective in protecting Orton, and they seemed to continue to run the same routes from early in the game that could only result in short gains.

 

2. The o-line play is poor, and many predicted that this would be a signficant weakness this year because of the failure to address it in any meaningful way during the offseason. Signing Chris Williams was a bad move, and we knew it would not work out. Why the Bills thought otherwise is a mystery to me. I appreciate that they used some draft picks to try to improve the o-line, but if they thought any of them would be ready to contribute, then the scouting for these players was poor. They got lucky with Henderson, but I am not sure he is playing particulary well now.

 

3. I like Watkins, but I am not yet convinced he is so much better of a prospect than some of the other wide receivers taken later in the draft to justify trading away next year's first round pick. There was a graphic during last night's game showing the performance of four other first round wide receivers, and they all were playing at a high level as well. Other wide receivers taken after the first round last draft are also performing well. By the way, I have understood that the Bills were going to take Ebron if Watkins was unavailable. Not sure he is having such a good rookie year.

 

4. Still strongly believe that we need a consultant to review the coaching staff, GM, scouts and other footbal personnel. Hope this happens beginning at season end.

 

5. I would be okay with starting over with a new head coach and GM at this point. This is one of the few times over recent years where I have felt that the problem was coaching and not talent.

 

6. Tough to judge Whaley, because,I do not know what he is responsible for from prior years. Was he responsible for Manuel? What about Hughes? Whaley's performance this year has been inconsistent. The trade for Watkins and signing of Williams are negatives. Signing Graham and drafting Preston Brown were great moves. Not addressing the o-line, or at least not addressing it well, is a big negative.

 

7. I really enjoy watching the defensive line play. It will be great to have Alonso back next year.

 

8. I still have not figured out what expertise Marrone has. If he has been helping with the o-line, it is not working. If he is helping with the play calling, he is overmatched as well. What does he bring to the table?

 

9. If we interview and hire a new head coach and GM, I think it will be a bit easier this time to find strong candidates. While I understand we seem to do this every couple of years, which is a negative to any prospective candidates, we have new owners and it is not unreasonable for them to select their own "people" to manage and coach the team. Plus, candidates will know that ownership is new, stable and committed, with no possibility of relocation. Add to the mix a team with at least some talent, and I think there will be potentially more interest in these positions. Maybe the lack of a first round pick or a quality QB will hurt, but hopefully the other factors will out weigh these considerations.

[vorpma]

:thumbsup: Great post!

[Whack 'Em Williams]

lets all stop supporting this team until coaching changes happen or we are provided with Marones skill set, he seems to lack everything needed to call offensive plays or manage the play caller(s) when needed.

[Dragonborn10]

Orton sucks. That is all that need be said. EJ probalby sucks too but he hasn't played a fuill season yet. How can you evaluate Hackett or even Marrone with Orton and EJ at QB? But Marrone is also the one that went into last year with EJ and Tuel as the only QB's. How is it Hackett's fault if guys are open and Orton or EJ can't make the throws. Orton has played no better than EJ except against the Jets. If Watkins doesn't make a miracle catch agaisnt Detroit, EJ may have started and won this game. The season is over and everyone's favorite player - the back-up QB - put the nail in the coffin.

[Chilly]

3. I like Watkins, but I am not yet convinced he is so much better of a prospect than some of the other wide receivers taken later in the draft to justify trading away next year's first round pick. There was a graphic during last night's game showing the performance of four other first round wide receivers, and they all were playing at a high level as well. Other wide receivers taken after the first round last draft are also performing well. By the way, I have understood that the Bills were going to take Ebron if Watkins was unavailable. Not sure he is having such a good rookie year.

 

Carolina is force feeding Benjamin the ball because they only have him and Olsen. Mike Evans has exploded the last couple of weeks and our play calling is ****. The fact that Sammy is even keeping up with the other two is a testament to how good he is.

[vincec]

3. I like Watkins, but I am not yet convinced he is so much better of a prospect than some of the other wide receivers taken later in the draft to justify trading away next year's first round pick. There was a graphic during last night's game showing the performance of four other first round wide receivers, and they all were playing at a high level as well. Other wide receivers taken after the first round last draft are also performing well. By the way, I have understood that the Bills were going to take Ebron if Watkins was unavailable. Not sure he is having such a good rookie year.

Watkins is the only real play maker that the offense has. He has been seriously hampered by his injury the past couple of weeks and it's no coincidence that the scoring has gone into the tank in those games as well.

[BrooklynBills]

They need to bring in someone to run and structure the football department. Maybe that's a big time HC like Gruden, Harbaugh, or Malzhan. Maybe it's a strong GM, but I'm not sure of the candidates there. But a strong football person needs to be hired to set the vision of the team and enact a strategy going forward.

 

They currently lack any real direction and it's quite obvious. Other great teams have had a clear distinct voice in charge. Belichek in NE. Carroll in SEA. Ozzie Newsome in BAL. And so on. Then you fill in the front office/coaching positions around him with other talented people that want to come and work here because they believe in the overall vision and structure of the organization.

 

Honestly, with willing ownership, this is not that hard.

[Solomon Grundy]

How is anyone questioning the GM's job?

[birdog1960]

They need to bring in someone to run and structure the football department. Maybe that's a big time HC like Gruden, Harbaugh, or Malzhan. Maybe it's a strong GM, but I'm not sure of the candidates there. But a strong football person needs to be hired to set the vision of the team and enact a strategy going forward.

 

They currently lack any real direction and it's quite obvious. Other great teams have had a clear distinct voice in charge. Belichek in NE. Carroll in SEA. Ozzie Newsome in BAL. And so on. Then you fill in the front office/coaching positions around him with other talented people that want to come and work here because they believe in the overall vision and structure of the organization.

 

Honestly, with willing ownership, this is not that hard.

sounds good to me. hopefully, pegula will see the wisdom in this. it's a proven model that the bills have never employed.

 

i've got to wonder about the comments re loss of draft choices limiting interested candidates. hadn't considered that. begs the question whether this may have been sabotage for self interest on whaley's part.

[BrooklynBills]

How is anyone questioning the GM's job?

 

1. Giving up next year's first for Watkins is looking short sighted.

 

2. No QB answer after 2 years.

 

3. Marrone is bust.

 

4. OL is terrible.

 

5. Most of the players on defense are not his draft picks

 

I like Whaley as a talent evaluator, but as a team builder, he has not been a slam dunk. It's not hard to poke holes in the job he's done.

 

And the idea that he finds the talent and the coach coaches them is very antiquated. Best teams in this era have synergy from top to bottom. This team is the exact opposite.

 

This is all on Brandon though. He created this whole mess. And it may just take a clean sweep to fix it. And Whaley is a casualty, then so be it.

[217014170]

How is anyone questioning the GM's job?

Agreed...the personnel department led by Whaley is the best thing about this organization.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

He drafted Manual, signed Orton and Kolb. Expected (can't think of the guys name form last year from Duke) him to improve with a year under his belt, but instead regressed.

 

If you blame a GM for no QB answer, then don't hire anyone for the job as doubt you can find a GM who solved the QB position in 2 years except for Green Bay who went from Farve to Rodgers. Every other team has failed repeatedly in find in the right guy. Same can be said for coaches too for the most part.

 

 

 

2. No QB answer after 2 years.

 

 

 

This is all on Brandon though. He created this whole mess. And it may just take a clean sweep to fix it. And Whaley is a casualty, then so be it.

[Saint Doug]

How is anyone questioning the GM's job?

 

It's actually very easy to question it. He's the GM of a perpetually losing team, why wouldn't he be questioned? That, and he severely misplayed both his HC hire and his search for a QB. These are by far the two single most important predictors of success in the NFL and has failed in the regard. Sure, he has had some highlights, but as our record attests, these are less important transactions.

[thewildrabbit]

Have some faith that new ownership will make the appropriate changes this off season, or before. Although it really makes no sense to make changes now unless its to promote Schwartz to HC, and fire both Marrone & Hackett.

 

These new owners top priority is winning, and not making a profit. As Terry stated, "if he wanted to make more money he would drill a well".

 

The new owners should hire a senior adviser / consultant as soon as the season ends, and possibly a new president of football operations soon after that.

 

2015 will be very different!!

[saundena]

I'm OK with Whaley and Brandon. I know some of the other rookie WRs are doing well, but their prospects for greatness was not as much of a sure things as Sammy. If Whaley would have selected somebody else, say for instance Carolina's Kelvin Benjamin and he didn't perform well then we would have been pissed at Whaley for not going after Sammy. The other thing to realize is that we can't look at things in a vacuum... Imagine how good Sammy could be doing if he had Cam Newton throwing him the ball....

 

I'm OK with Brandon as long as he and Whaley both report to TPegs.... He's a great business guy and I really feel that he loves the team. It's just that I don't think the football operations side of the house and the business side of the house should have to compete with or answer to the other. The business side of the house should be 100% committed to supporting the GM and making sure he can execute his agenda, with oversight and support from the owner. After all, this is a Football team, not manufacturing or service. The GM should have a lot of power and not have to fight for / or to keep that power.

 

Doug Marrone needs to go. The players seem to like him but his team always seems unprepared and he's not a good game day coach. He needed to hire two experienced coordinators. Instead he hired Petine (who we really got luck with because he turned out to be good) and Hackett who is mostly awful. I believe the offense and Hackett will be his undoing.

 

If Whaley stays (which I think he should.... can you imagine if we had the Jets GM Idzik... GM's are not a dime a dozen, nor are they perfect.) then who needs to go? Whaley has done a good job for the most part. Sure, we knew the Oline would be a problem, but Rome wasn't built over night. So Whaley stays, but which coaches get the boot? Do you fire everybody? Can you fire just the head coach and then let the new head coach make decisions about the rest of the staff? Because, I really like Schwartz, Pepper Johnson and Crossman... What if the new coach wants to bring in his guys?

 

Do you promote Schwartz? Schwartz has proven time and again and continues to show that he's a top notch Dcoord. His record as a head coach is only mediocre. If you promote him, who takes over our D, which is quite possibly the best in the league? I'd hate to see them go from Petine, Schwartz and then a new guy.... 3 coordinators in 3 years. I'd like to see some stability. If you promote Schwartz, who do you think he'd be able to attract as an offensive coordinator?

 

Thoughts please?

Edited November 15, 2014 by saundena

[Bill from NYC]

This is all on Brandon though. He created this whole mess. And it may just take a clean sweep to fix it. And Whaley is a casualty, then so be it.

The above sums things up perfectly imo.

[jahnyc]

I would not promote Schwartz to head coach. If the new head coach and GM think he is a quality defensive coordinator and they wish to keep him, so be it. Same with the other coaches on defense.

[JM57]

I'm OK with Whaley and Brandon. I know some of the other rookie WRs are doing well, but their prospects for greatness was not as much of a sure things as Sammy. If Whaley would have selected somebody else, say for instance Carolina's Kelvin Benjamin and he didn't perform well then we would have been pissed at Whaley for not going after Sammy. The other thing to realize is that we can't look at things in a vacuum... Imagine how good Sammy could be doing if he had Cam Newton throwing him the ball....

 

I'm OK with Brandon as long as he and Whaley both report to TPegs.... He's a great business guy and I really feel that he loves the team. It's just that I don't think the football operations side of the house and the business side of the house should have to compete with or answer to the other. The business side of the house should be 100% committed to supporting the GM and making sure he can execute his agenda, with oversight and support from the owner. After all, this is a Football team, not manufacturing or service. The GM should have a lot of power and not have to fight for / or to keep that power.

 

Doug Marrone needs to go. The players seem to like him but his team always seems unprepared and he's not a good game day coach. He needed to hire two experienced coordinators. Instead he hired Petine (who we really got luck with because he turned out to be good) and Hackett who is mostly awful. I believe the offense and Hackett will be his undoing.

 

If Whaley stays (which I think he should.... can you imagine if we had the Jets GM Idzik... GM's are not a dime a dozen, nor are they perfect.) then who needs to go? Whaley has done a good job for the most part. Sure, we knew the Oline would be a problem, but Rome wasn't built over night. So Whaley stays, but which coaches get the boot? Do you fire everybody? Can you fire just the head coach and then let the new head coach make decisions about the rest of the staff? Because, I really like Schwartz, Pepper Johnson and Crossman... What if the new coach wants to bring in his guys?

 

Do you promote Schwartz? Schwartz has proven time and again and continues to show that he's a top notch Dcoord. His record as a head coach is only mediocre. If you promote him, who takes over our D, which is quite possibly the best in the league? I'd hate to see them go from Petine, Schwartz and then a new guy.... 3 coordinators in 3 years. I'd like to see some stability. If you promote Schwartz, who do you think he'd be able to attract as an offensive coordinator?

 

Thoughts please?

 

One main thought: I believe its already leaked that the Pegulas do plan on keeping Russ Brandon as a OBD employee, but not in his current role. They're planning on separating the business and football operations, similar to the Sabres set up currently.

 

Russ Brandon will be in the Ted Black role, running the business side and being the mouthpiece for the media. All business operations members would report to him.

 

A consultant with a large amount of football experience will likely be hired and will either run the football side of things or assist with a search to hire the "Football Czar" who Whaley and all of football operations would report to. Football Czar and Brandon would then report directly to the Pegulas.

[birdog1960]

Agreed...the personnel department led by Whaley is the best thing about this organization.

and it's not good enough. the best of a bad organization is very often still bad.

[Fixxxer]

Would you guys have fired Philbin last year after the Phins got blanketed by the Bills and missed the playoffs? (I know they could still miss the playoffs again this year)