Best Player Available Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Never seen such blind devotion in my life to a mediocre journeyman qb who won 3 games by the skin of his teeth as bills fans to King Orton. I hope you are all FINALLY ready to admit that he was put in by a coaching staff desperate to save their own jobs at the expense of the future growth of this franchise. So, who's the answer? Since he's not on the roster?
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 He wasn't the savior. He was our best chance to win. He still is. He's not great, and hasn't been good lately. But he's still better than EJ. You have to go with your best chance to win while you are in it. Now, after these past few weeks and now that we are out of it. I don't know that I don't know if EJ doesn't get another chance so we know for a fact that we have to find a QB somehow, some way in the offseason Agree here. While Orton is better at this time than Manuel, neither seems to be the long term answer here based on performance to date. And those saying Orton isn't good enough are correct but the other option looked even worse earlier this season. I wasn't happy with Orton's performance the last two weeks. He's been ineffective, inaccurate, perhaps a little timid in the pocket, and hasn't produced results, which is measured by TD's on the board. But thinking this team would have been better than 5-5 at this point if they stuck with EJ seems doubtful to me given how his performance had regressed though the first 4 games. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to giving EJ another shot here at the remaining 6 games because this team has played themselves out of playoff contention the past 5 days. While he might never pan out it's worth another look at this point. This other issue is I think the entire offensive system and game planning of this team is dreadful so I'm not sure how you can completely and accurately judge the QB's given that anchor around their necks.
flomoe Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 I can't blame Orton completely. Hackett has now gotten 6 games exclusively coaching and game planning with him and Orton has progressively gotten worse. Orton was coached from the moment he signed to the Houston debacle by the assistants and he started out fine. The more Hackett's influence has penetrated him, the worse he's gotten. The same could be said for EJ. I personally think that EJ regressed both this year and last as the season went on. That is all on coaching or lack thereof.
fridge Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 A dolt would look solely at record then start name calling. You're trying your best to put EJ into a category that doesn't exist. He threw an 80 yd touchdown pass in one of the games that you called historically horrible. Historically horrible is whatever the hell Geno Smith did against us. You can't be historically horrible with an 80 yard TD pass. Orton didn't even complete a pass in the red zone and you're calling EJ historically horrible. They have the same winning percentage. Play the young guy, see if he learned. Incredible that you're arguing against that right now, cherry picking made-up fake ESPN stats to defend your hypocritical point.
1B4IDie Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Not worth $5 million Why? What were you going to do with the Extra 5 Mil in September?
fridge Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 I can't blame Orton completely. Hackett has now gotten 6 games exclusively coaching and game planning with him and Orton has progressively gotten worse. Orton was coached from the moment he signed to the Houston debacle by the assistants and he started out fine. The more Hackett's influence has penetrated him, the worse he's gotten. The same could be said for EJ. I personally think that EJ regressed both this year and last as the season went on. That is all on coaching or lack thereof. /thread
1B4IDie Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) You're trying your best to put EJ into a category that doesn't exist. He threw an 80 yd touchdown pass in one of the games that you called historically horrible. Historically horrible is whatever the hell Geno Smith did against us. You can't be historically horrible with an 80 yard TD pass. Orton didn't even complete a pass in the red zone and you're calling EJ historically horrible. They have the same winning percentage. Play the young guy, see if he learned. Incredible that you're arguing against that right now, cherry picking made-up fake ESPN stats to defend your hypocritical point. Actually in reality EJ Manuel is the only QB to have a single digit QBR in back to back games. That is historically horrible again in reality. Reality isn't a place you seem to be familiar with so I feel a need to point that out. You can keep your head in the fridge and ignore the actual game film of EJ's play if you like. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. He threw an 80 yard TD because the defense and D-Co knew he wasn't throwing the ball more than 3 yards in the air past the line of scrimmage all game. So when the play broke down they didn't bother defending the deep ball because EJ Manuel was playing at an historically bad level. Even a broken clock is right two times a day. The only bright spot of starting EJ again is the GM has to fire the HC and OC and that point in time because they demonstrate through indecision that they don't know what the !@#$ they're doing. Edited November 14, 2014 by Why So Serious?
fridge Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Even a broken clock is right two times a day. Apparently. Unless that clock is named Kyle Orton last night, right?
1B4IDie Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Apparently. Unless that clock is named Kyle Orton last night, right? That makes no sense.
Coach Tuesday Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Orton is simply regressing to the mean of his career, I can't blame him for anything. He's doing what he's always done, which is managing the game. I blame the guys who anointed him the savior, and those same guys who draw up plays that are so predictable that the other team's defense knows what's coming and sits on the routes. They're running a COLLEGE OFFENSE with a journeyman QB who was retired from the game as of mid-August. These results are not surprising.
1B4IDie Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Orton is simply regressing to the mean of his career, I can't blame him for anything. He's doing what he's always done, which is managing the game. I blame the guys who anointed him the savior, and those same guys who draw up plays that are so predictable that the other team's defense knows what's coming and sits on the routes. They're running a COLLEGE OFFENSE with a journeyman QB who was retired from the game as of mid-August. These results are not surprising. Simms did say he watched a lot of the .500 Syracuse team and that the offense was the same. Which kind of surprised me. Even Chip Kelly changed his plays and play calling in the NFL. Chip Kelly's offense was actually successful in CFB.
mountainwampus Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Orton didn't have time to hang on to the ball long enough for any of Hacketts Marronic plays to develop. Any QB would fail in that situation.
Charles Romes Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Don't forget that in the jets game- supposedly his best game - he had something like 7 three and outs through 3 quarters
Best Player Available Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Did anyone really thnk Orton was the next Gannon or Plunkett? he was a deperation move the best available in late August, by a GM who foolishly thought their reach on EJ was right. Even though its evident he is not the guy. Thats whay next year will suck too. Does anyone think Whaley will admit his mistake? Not yet! Unless he is told too by the owners. Fire them all, and get a legit QB, amd coaching staff. or it will be more of the same next year.
bobobonators Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 All i know is that the more EJ played in this offense, the worse he got. Now its looking to be happening to Orton. Anyone remember that pregame graphic nfl network had on Orton and where he ranked in yds/game and td/int ratio and completion %? Those numbers were pretty damn good. But now in 2 games we cant score a TD. And the Jets game masked a lot of the problems w this offense. When EJ was replaced i specifically said i wanted to see whether the problem was mostly on Ej or w NH. After getting a fair sample of games from Orton and to see how he has regressed and the offense has regressed i think its clear where the root of this offense's problems lie. The scary part is that the offensive line has actually played BETTER the last 2 weeks yet somehow the offense looks worse. What has happened to Chandler in the passing game? Watkins is somewhat injured and his targets have been limited. When hogan is ur most effective receiver 2 weeeks in a row you have problems. We are able to effectively run the ball lately but we simply dont stick with the run anymore. WHEREAS EARLIER IN THE SEASON we WERENT effectively running the ball and we'd keep trying and trying. The philosophy of this offense is MADDENING. But thats another problem - what is this offenses philosophy? I have no idea. I feel bad for EJ and Orton bc under this regime they're completely behind the 8 ball. (Sorry if post is messed up sent from phone)
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) He was 2-2. Orton is 3-3. Stop being a dolt. +1 though I think you were too kind with dolt. Mr 10 season, .500 W/L record, regressing retiree needs to go back to the bench and let the org know how good or bad EJ is for the next 6 games. Like today. Don't forget that in the jets game- supposedly his best game - he had something like 7 three and outs through 3 quarters shhhhh the Orton Musketeers don't want to hear FACTS ----------------- My open letter to Mr Orton Please re-retire again this season like now. 7 quarters w/o a TD? You can't scramble to save your life. Oh and on your one scramble ..... you missed an open RCVR in the end zone. Edited November 14, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever
dave mcbride Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 He was 2-2. Orton is 3-3. Stop being a dolt. I'm not here to defend Orton, who played badly last night, but qb won-loss records is the ultimate bs stat. This isn't baseball, and they're not starting pitchers.
Astrojanitor Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 THE problem? He is A problem, but hardly the reason why the team can't win.
Dorkington Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Sadly, he's still the best QB on the team, so it was the right move putting him in. That being said, since we are basically out of the playoffs now, they can play whomever they want, who cares. The big question is, what do we do about next year?
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