BarleyNY Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 I really would like to hear a good defense for continuing on with Orton. He has been terrible. The Bills offense has stagnated to a terrible level these last 2 games and Orton shoulders much of the blame. His accuracy and decision making have been terrible. As I said when ej was benched... We know what Orton is mediocre to poor. We still don't know what we have with ej. Orton has led the team to point outputs of 9, 13, 43, 17, 22, and 17. That is terrible and I just can't believe that ej could not have led the Bills to at least as many points. I only have this: Orton is still the best QB on the roster and he is a lot less likely to get a receiver concussed or otherwise injured by a throw that leads that receiver into a hit. Also, I think we all know what we have in Manuel. Sorry, but he's not a starting NFL QB. Hope and optimism are not warranted in his case. He is, at best, a long term project - almost certainly for some other team.
Prickly Pete Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) The thing is, a major part of EJM's struggles is that he doesn't have command of the team, and hasn't earned the respect of his teammates yet. Right now the team is still reeling from falling out of the playoff picture and probably aren;t in the right frame of mind to suddenly accept a guy that had just lost the job a bit earlier in the season. They are still bottoming out, it's not the right time. Let the dust settle, and then play EJM for the last 4 games, when the players are in a different frame of mind, and it feels more like they are building for next season. Edited November 14, 2014 by HoF Watkins
Prickly Pete Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 @BuffRumblings #Bills fans still want to bench Kyle Orton for EJ Manuel by just short of a 2 to 1 margin. http://www.buffaloru...-for-ej-manuel You mean "fans that vote in these kinds of silly polls want to bench Orton." Who cares? What would you expect right after a loss that kills their playoff chances? Is that supposed to mean it's the right thing to do? The fans don't run the team, and frankly, most are clueless and make decisions based on emotion.
Maddog69 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 You mean "fans that vote in these kinds of silly polls want to bench Orton." Who cares? What would you expect right after a loss that kills their playoff chances? Is that supposed to mean it's the right thing to do? The fans don't run the team, and frankly, most are clueless and make decisions based on emotion. Says the guy on a fan message board expressing his opinion. Irony at its finest.
Prickly Pete Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Says the guy on a fan message board expressing his opinion. Irony at its finest. Posting my opinion is totally different than trying to insinuate that a poll of fans lends credence to an argument.
fridge Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Posting my opinion is totally different than trying to insinuate that a poll of fans lends credence to an argument. Isn't that precisely what a poll does? Lend credence to an argument? It doesn't necessarily mean it solves the argument, but surely if the majority of people who follow the team want vote for "A", then I'd say their argument has some merit, wouldn't you?
Bangarang Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Starting EJ again sends such a terrible message to the rest of the locker room. He's basically telling the team that he's given up. "Hey guys, remember the QB that I said no longer gives us the best chance at winning? Well, he's our starting QB again. Let's go out there and play hard now!"
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) I only have this: Orton is still the best QB on the roster and he is a lot less likely to get a receiver concussed or otherwise injured by a throw that leads that receiver into a hit. Also, I think we all know what we have in Manuel. Sorry, but he's not a starting NFL QB. Hope and optimism are not warranted in his case. He is, at best, a long term project - almost certainly for some other team. Really? How do you know that? Why are we better in every major offensive category last year versus this year? EJ started the bulk of the games last, Orton the bulk of the games this year. Not to mention, this team averages more points per game with EJ than Orton. Not to mention this years team is more talented, experienced and healthier than last years offense. So how can anyone say Orton is better with certainty? EJ has 14 full games, Orton 10 year Vet...not a fair comparison on just that alone. The last good offensive game was week 2 under EJ. I don't want to hear about the Jets game...the D gave us 6 turnovers and the offense was not efficient. We scored what we scored because of the D, not because of a dominating offensive effort. EJ was playing poorly the 2 losses, he also was hit NINE times by just JJ Watt, not including the rest of the Houston team. The WHOLE offense stunk that game, much like it did yesterday. EJ gets so much more hate than deserved, he's been better than he gets credit for. Where Orton gets every excuse in the book despite not being good against Det (pick 6 almost lost us the game), NE (INT did lose us the game), Minn (stunk until the last drive), KC (lost us the game with so many missed opportunities by him personally), and last night. Ortons mythology is hilarious...I think it even eclipses Trent and Fitz. People see near 300 yards and think he was awesome, failing to recognize you can get 60% of that total on 2 good drives and suck the rest the game and still get 300 yards which is what he does. With EJ, they didn't open the offense up as much and he played to careful. Maybe now, they can let him run the full offense and he will play to win rather than play to lose. If he does that, he may just be better...but only one way to find out. Only thing clear is that we are better in every team offensive category just about under EJ last year and this year. Edited November 14, 2014 by Alphadawg7
26CornerBlitz Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Starting EJ again sends such a terrible message to the rest of the locker room. He's basically telling the team that he's given up. "Hey guys, remember the QB that I said no longer gives us the best chance at winning? Well, he's our starting QB again. Let's go out there and play hard now!" Everyone knows Marrone isn't going to change as long as they are mathematically alive. That said, Kyle Orton and best chance to win cannot be used in the same sentence with any degree of reality given the last two games. He has come up incredibly small.
Billsguy Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 I agree with a lot of what you said, but I just wanted to point out that Orton is already signed for next year. Its a players option for $5m, my guess is he will pick up the option to make $5m for sucking. Well they were going to need a veteran anyway so I guess the Bills will be stuck with Orton for the time being. The next QB to lead the Bills to the playoffs is NOT currently on the roster. There's your problem in an obvious nutshell! The Pegulas may be smart enough to seek the advice of knowledgeable football people to hire the next management team. The current management is sorely lacking in talent and acumen.
Maddog69 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Really? How do you know that? Why are we better in every major offensive category last year versus this year? EJ started the bulk of the games last, Orton the bulk of the games this year. Not to mention, this team averages more points per game with EJ than Orton. Not to mention this years team is more talented, experienced and healthier than last years offense. So how can anyone say Orton is better with certainty? EJ has 14 full games, Orton 10 year Vet...not a fair comparison on just that alone. The last good offensive game was week 2 under EJ. I don't want to hear about the Jets game...the D gave us 6 turnovers and the offense was not efficient. We scored what we scored because of the D, not because of a dominating offensive effort. EJ was playing poorly the 2 losses, he also was hit NINE times by just JJ Watt, not including the rest of the Houston team. The WHOLE offense stunk that game, much like it did yesterday. EJ gets so much more hate than deserved, he's been better than he gets credit for. Where Orton gets every excuse in the book despite not being good against Det (pick 6 almost lost us the game), NE (INT did lose us the game), Minn (stunk until the last drive), KC (lost us the game with so many missed opportunities by him personally), and last night. Ortons mythology is hilarious...I think it even eclipses Trent and Fitz. People see near 300 yards and think he was awesome, failing to recognize you can get 60% of that total on 2 good drives and suck the rest the game and still get 300 yards which is what he does. With EJ, they didn't open the offense up as much and he played to careful. Maybe now, they can let him run the full offense and he will play to win rather than play to lose. If he does that, he may just be better...but only one way to find out. Only thing clear is that we are better in every team offensive category just about under EJ last year and this year. Perfect post Alpha. I'm wondering if all the EJ hate is because he wasn't the QB people wanted to get drafted. I could care less. He's young. Give him some slack. The same as Orton gets. Both have strengths and weaknesses. Both have had good and bad games and have made good and bad passes. Some people are so convinced that EJ can never improve, yet they talk about giving Orton time to get better in the offense after he's played for 10 years in the league.
Prickly Pete Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Isn't that precisely what a poll does? Lend credence to an argument? It doesn't necessarily mean it solves the argument, but surely if the majority of people who follow the team want vote for "A", then I'd say their argument has some merit, wouldn't you? They once polled people in India about whether they should nuke neighboring Pakistan, and a majority voted yes. I believe EJM should be put in, just not right away. The poll shows the predictable emotional fans, knee-jerk reaction. Edited November 14, 2014 by HoF Watkins
Maddog69 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Starting EJ again sends such a terrible message to the rest of the locker room. He's basically telling the team that he's given up. "Hey guys, remember the QB that I said no longer gives us the best chance at winning? Well, he's our starting QB again. Let's go out there and play hard now!" Why, because 3-3 is better than 2-2? Isn't that precisely what a poll does? Lend credence to an argument? It doesn't necessarily mean it solves the argument, but surely if the majority of people who follow the team want vote for "A", then I'd say their argument has some merit, wouldn't you? Yep
K-9 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Please keep EJ on the bench the rest of the year. The coaches would screw up his development even more by inserting him into this soon to be run for the bus lineup. Let him compete for the job next offseason. It's a lose/lose proposition for him at the moment. GO BILLS!!!
Prickly Pete Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Isn't that precisely what a poll does? Lend credence to an argument? It doesn't necessarily mean it solves the argument, but surely if the majority of people who follow the team want vote for "A", then I'd say their argument has some merit, wouldn't you? How do you know this poll represents "the majority of the fans"?. That's just one reason why polls are crap, and especially useless for making coaching decisions for an NFL team. Edited November 14, 2014 by HoF Watkins
ALF Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Please keep EJ on the bench the rest of the year. The coaches would screw up his development even more by inserting him into this soon to be run for the bus lineup. Let him compete for the job next offseason. It's a lose/lose proposition for him at the moment. GO BILLS!!! I agree , the OL also has to settle down before EJ could stand a chance.
Bangarang Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Why, because 3-3 is better than 2-2? It makes the HC look terrible and clueless. What credibility does he have with the players if he tells everyone that Orton gives this team the best chance at winning then benches him in favor of EJ again after 6 weeks? It's not about who has the better record at QB. It's about how the rest of the locker room perceives this decision and maybe questions the HC's ability to lead this team. Edited November 14, 2014 by Bangarang
DallasBillsFan1 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 I say bring EJ back into fold. Nothing to lose, everything to gain. Let's get a final determination on his level of play. At least he is mobile and can run. It was tough watching Orton stand on the pocket and waddle around when he had to scramble. Opposing defenses are simply gonna blitz Orton all day up the middle and make him uncomfortable. Why wasn't Chandler used more? Did they need him for blocking? Our O-line was manhandled in 2nd half.
Prickly Pete Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 It makes the HC look terrible and clueless. What credibility does he have with the players if he tells everyone that Orton gives this team the best chance at winning then benches him in favor of EJ again after 6 weeks? It's not about who has the better record at QB. It's about how the rest of the locker room perceives this decision and maybe questions the HC's ability to lead this team. Right. A big part of EJM's struggles was that he didn't know how to command the team, and didn't have a veteran QB to show him what he needs to demand from his teammates. Yes, now he has seen it from Orton, but one game after being pushed out of the playoff picture, the team is not going to be in the frame of mind to suddenly start taking orders from EJM. They need to be fully in "playing for next season" mode. If Marrone doesn't make the switch after a couple more weeks, I bet Pegula will request to see EJM.
Maddog69 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 It makes the HC look terrible and clueless. What credibility does he have with the players if he tells everyone that Orton gives this team the best chance at winning then benches him in favor of EJ again after 6 weeks? It's not about who has the better record at QB. It's about how the rest of the locker room perceives this decision and maybe questions the HC's ability to lead this team. I think this is b.s. 1.) Marrone is terrible and clueless. The fans know it, the media knows and the players damn well know it. 2.) The players are not stupid. They can see that Orton is not getting the job done. 3.) The players are paid to work hard and play ball. I could care less what their opinions are. Do your job and STFU.
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