Alphadawg7 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 And how many passes were dropped during the course of the game? Watkins, Woods, Smith, and Gragg all had catchable passes that were dropped. Granted, Orton had an off game, but then again, the play calling was horrendous. The Bills had four tries to get a first down to make it first and goal but Hackett blew it. The Bills were having success running the ball and Hackett calls for four pass plays to the end zone, instead of trying to get a first down, then have another four downs to score a TD. I agree with everything you said here except for your font size lol I totally agree it was a team loss, not all on Orton. But what is being confused is this is a discussion about how Orton is playing. So if we are being honest about him, he is playing wildly inconsistent. He can look great one drive and inept for the next 4. I also totally agree that Hackett is doing him no favors and he did EJ, Spiller, and other players no favors with how bad he calls a game. For me, Hackett is actually the biggest problem on this team. And yes, our receivers drop too many passes. Many are inexcusable. Some guys like Chandler seem to drop the easy ones and catch the difficult ones which is a lack of concentration IMO. Our offensive woes are not all on Orton, but he has not been nearly as good as hyped on this board by many. Still better than how EJ was playing his last couple games where he played scared and not to make a mistake (which is about the worst thing you can have in a QB)...but this offense as it is will not get us to the playoffs this year unless they can figure out how to convert 3rd downs, score in the redzone, and find some kind of consistency. Thats a tall order to fix midseason.
Jerry Jabber Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 I agree with everything you said here except for your font size lol I totally agree it was a team loss, not all on Orton. But what is being confused is this is a discussion about how Orton is playing. So if we are being honest about him, he is playing wildly inconsistent. He can look great one drive and inept for the next 4. I also totally agree that Hackett is doing him no favors and he did EJ, Spiller, and other players no favors with how bad he calls a game. For me, Hackett is actually the biggest problem on this team. And yes, our receivers drop too many passes. Many are inexcusable. Some guys like Chandler seem to drop the easy ones and catch the difficult ones which is a lack of concentration IMO. Our offensive woes are not all on Orton, but he has not been nearly as good as hyped on this board by many. Still better than how EJ was playing his last couple games where he played scared and not to make a mistake (which is about the worst thing you can have in a QB)...but this offense as it is will not get us to the playoffs this year unless they can figure out how to convert 3rd downs, score in the redzone, and find some kind of consistency. Thats a tall order to fix midseason. Sorry about the font size, it's like that from my work computer. I agree 100% with what you said. IMO, Orton is very similar to Alex Smith, a good game manager. He is inconsistent at times, but he is better than the other QB's on the roster. Considering he was signed at the end of training camp and didn't participate in the OTA's, mini camp, training camp and preseason games, I'm willing to cut him some slack as it takes time to develop chemistry with his players.
Doc Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 i'm not claiming Orton had a great game, nor am I arguing that he is "the answer", but going by your stated criteria I'm not sure if there has ever been a QB who would be. If so you can count them on one hand. Huh? How many times did we bash EJ for missed chances? How many chances did Orton miss in that game against KC? Tons of them. And not just on the final drive. Again, from a 2nd year guy with 14 starts, I can expect it and hope for better in time. From a 10-year guy with over 70 starts under his belt, it's unacceptable.
Captain Hindsight Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Huh? How many times did we bash EJ for missed chances? How many chances did Orton miss in that game against KC? Tons of them. And not just on the final drive. Again, from a 2nd year guy with 14 starts, I can expect it and hope for better in time. From a 10-year guy with over 70 starts under his belt, it's unacceptable. This^ Sorry about the font size, it's like that from my work computer. I agree 100% with what you said. IMO, Orton is very similar to Alex Smith, a good game manager. He is inconsistent at times, but he is better than the other QB's on the roster. Considering he was signed at the end of training camp and didn't participate in the OTA's, mini camp, training camp and preseason games, I'm willing to cut him some slack as it takes time to develop chemistry with his players. His chemistry seemed to be fine in those 300 yard performances in his first few starts. Also he's been here for 2 and half months practicing with these guys everyday. He should have it by now. Especially as a ten year vet
Ted William's frozen head Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 EJ will never play another down for the Bills. EJ's ass is out the door come January.
Doc Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 EJ will never play another down for the Bills. EJ's ass is out the door come January. How much you want to be on that one?
FireChan Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Huh? How many times did we bash EJ for missed chances? How many chances did Orton miss in that game against KC? Tons of them. And not just on the final drive. Again, from a 2nd year guy with 14 starts, I can expect it and hope for better in time. From a 10-year guy with over 70 starts under his belt, it's unacceptable. Many games vs. Orton's one bad game. Also, it's important to note that Orton is at least attempting to hit those chances, whereas EJ gave up on trying.
papazoid Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 EJ will never play another down for the Bills. EJ's ass is out the door come January. the only way EJ is not on the 2015 roster is if pegula replaces whaley.
3rdand12 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I dunno, but it will be interesting to see since I believe that decision is a major window into the thinking for 2015. EJ will only be the starter next season if they believe he has a better chance of success than Orton. If OBD thinks that's highly unlikely, I don't see how you sit your starter down. This is a damned good post. I am torn. But if garbage time starts soon (playoff elimination ) I would think its in the conversation to get EJ on the field at some point. If by some crazy quirk of nature Bills are blowing someone out you let him get some reps later in the season
Rob's House Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Huh? How many times did we bash EJ for missed chances? How many chances did Orton miss in that game against KC? Tons of them. And not just on the final drive. Again, from a 2nd year guy with 14 starts, I can expect it and hope for better in time. From a 10-year guy with over 70 starts under his belt, it's unacceptable. Everyone misses opportunities on occasion. This reaction after that outing is nonsensical. I guess your EJ man love runs deep.
3rdand12 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Everyone misses opportunities on occasion. This reaction after that outing is nonsensical. I guess your EJ man love runs deep. Right now , BPA. it aint over yet !!Go Bills ps right now is the best option . And i am rooting for him in an angry way though. Hogan was open ! Edited November 13, 2014 by 3rdand12
Dante Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I don't think EJ can play quite frankly. I think at some point he plays again but only briefly. The Bill's qb of the future is not him. No way he should ever start over Orton.
Sweet Lou Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I know this is gonna go over like a fart in church, but I think EJ's best shot is to be traded, then get a fresh start with another team.
Doc Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Many games vs. Orton's one bad game. Also, it's important to note that Orton is at least attempting to hit those chances, whereas EJ gave up on trying. Again, 10 year vet versus 2nd year player. And again, look at Orton's first few years starting. As for EJ giving up on trying, again without seeing what he's learned from Orton, there's no way to know what his future holds. Again I'm not advocating starting EJ until the Bills are out of the playoffs, which would mean Orton wasn't good enough to get the job done. Everyone misses opportunities on occasion. This reaction after that outing is nonsensical. I guess your EJ man love runs deep. Not as deep as your Orton love. He's been missing opportunities in every game. Why he gets a pass though is anyone's guess.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Many games vs. Orton's one bad game. Also, it's important to note that Orton is at least attempting to hit those chances, whereas EJ gave up on trying. Was Orton good against: Det? NE? KC? Minn? Answer...no. So how is this his one bad game? He has 6 TDs and 5 Turnovers in those 4 games and the team averaged 17 points per game. So how is the KC game his one bad game? I don't get it...he missed throws in all those games. NE he threw game ending INT. Det a pick 6. Minn couldn't score to save his life until the last second drive. KC missed tons of chances. But like Fitz when he threw for 300 yards against Balt (and still lost the game thanks to two INTs), Orton is being over exaggerated simply because he was passing for more yards than EJ. That doesn't make him good, that makes him the better choice at the time EJ got benched. But lets not start talking like Orton has been efficient. He is the 29th rated QB for a reason and our offense is worse in almost every offensive statistical category compared to last year despite less injuries and more offensive weapons. EJ was playing worse because he was playing like a pansy afraid to make a mistake...that makes Orton switch valid and the right move. But being realistic, Orton has not been that good. Again, 10 year vet versus 2nd year player. And again, look at Orton's first few years starting. As for EJ giving up on trying, again without seeing what he's learned from Orton, there's no way to know what his future holds. Again I'm not advocating starting EJ until the Bills are out of the playoffs, which would mean Orton wasn't good enough to get the job done. Not as deep as your Orton love. He's been missing opportunities in every game. Why he gets a pass though is anyone's guess. Agreed 100%. Orton starts until we are all but eliminated from the playoffs. Then put EJ in and see if he can play to win rather than play to lose. If he can do that, I think the kid has good upside. If he plays timid, his career as a starter is done.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I dunno, but it will be interesting to see since I believe that decision is a major window into the thinking for 2015. EJ will only be the starter next season if they believe he has a better chance of success than Orton. If OBD thinks that's highly unlikely, I don't see how you sit your starter down. Under what circumstances could they feel EJ will have a better chance for success than Orton? Hopefully, they'll sign a free agent who may even put Orton on the bench.
Rob's House Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Not as deep as your Orton love. He's been missing opportunities in every game. Why he gets a pass though is anyone's guess. There are no passes being given. It's an evaluation process. So far the good has outweighed the bad. But calling for the benching of a QB due to one mediocre performance is ridiculous. I'm familiar enough with you to know you don't suffer from a room temperature IQ so I can only assume you're letting your emotions take the day. Every QB in the history of the NFL has missed opportunities in most of the games they've played in. Every single Hall of Famer has had an opportunity to win at the end of a game and failed. It happens. If the Broncos followed your philosophy Brock Osweiler would be their QB right now. Under what circumstances could they feel EJ will have a better chance for success than Orton? Hopefully, they'll sign a free agent who may even put Orton on the bench. That's my thought. Even looking to next year I'm more concerned with Orton's status than EJ's. We've got Manuel under contract for 3 years. Orton can opt out after this one. I'd rather use every game to see if we want Orton back next year rather than pretending a couple of meaningless games, played after the coaching staff has admitted they've given up on the season, are going to be instrumental in Manuel's "development."
Doc Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 There are no passes being given. It's an evaluation process. So far the good has outweighed the bad. But calling for the benching of a QB due to one mediocre performance is ridiculous. I'm familiar enough with you to know you don't suffer from a room temperature IQ so I can only assume you're letting your emotions take the day. Every QB in the history of the NFL has missed opportunities in most of the games they've played in. Every single Hall of Famer has had an opportunity to win at the end of a game and failed. It happens. If the Broncos followed your philosophy Brock Osweiler would be their QB right now. I never said bench Orton now. I said if the Bills are eliminated from the playoffs, put EJ back in. After 10 years and 5 teams, his book will have been written.
SlamnSam Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 as a Bills fan I truly hope that EJ never plays another snap for the Bills. I have no idea why people continue to believe that this kid is an NFL QB, he isn't and never will be. Get over it, move on.
FireChan Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Again, 10 year vet versus 2nd year player. And again, look at Orton's first few years starting. As for EJ giving up on trying, again without seeing what he's learned from Orton, there's no way to know what his future holds. Again I'm not advocating starting EJ until the Bills are out of the playoffs, which would mean Orton wasn't good enough to get the job done. Not as deep as your Orton love. He's been missing opportunities in every game. Why he gets a pass though is anyone's guess. So why are you talking about how we have EJ flak for certain things when his faults are much greater than Orton's? Seems kind of dumb to equate your complaining to two players who aren't close to making the same amount of mistakes. Was Orton good against: Det? NE? KC? Minn? Answer...no. So how is this his one bad game? He has 6 TDs and 5 Turnovers in those 4 games and the team averaged 17 points per game. So how is the KC game his one bad game? I don't get it...he missed throws in all those games. NE he threw game ending INT. Det a pick 6. Minn couldn't score to save his life until the last second drive. KC missed tons of chances. But like Fitz when he threw for 300 yards against Balt (and still lost the game thanks to two INTs), Orton is being over exaggerated simply because he was passing for more yards than EJ. That doesn't make him good, that makes him the better choice at the time EJ got benched. But lets not start talking like Orton has been efficient. He is the 29th rated QB for a reason and our offense is worse in almost every offensive statistical category compared to last year despite less injuries and more offensive weapons. EJ was playing worse because he was playing like a pansy afraid to make a mistake...that makes Orton switch valid and the right move. But being realistic, Orton has not been that good. Agreed 100%. Orton starts until we are all but eliminated from the playoffs. Then put EJ in and see if he can play to win rather than play to lose. If he can do that, I think the kid has good upside. If he plays timid, his career as a starter is done. Please name what you think EJ's best game is in his entire career. And before you say it's irrelevant because you know Orton is a better option, know that it is germane to my overarching point about Orton.
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