smuvtalker Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 I couldn't agree with you more Alpha. Orton was absolutely piss-poor tonight, and played very EJ Manuel-esque. They always say you can't pin a loss solely on one player, but I'll be damn if he doesn't deserve a lion's share of blame for tonight. Was it just me, or were the receivers' body language tonight eerily similar to back when EJ was badly over/underthrowing/missing them?
GG Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Poor interior OL play + no RB's in for blitz pickup + ineffective play design blew Orton up in the second half. He's just a ball deliverer, he needs protection and playmakers. With Watkins crippled by his groin injury there is no big play threat which has decreased the area the defense needs to cover and put the Bills offense in a vice. Also worth noting that Robert Woods appears to be Leodis/CJ dumb. It's been assumed that EJ and Orton were not using this guy well but he just runs poor, sloppy routes and has poor awareness on the field. If only Bills had a WR who has a legit NFL resume...
thewildrabbit Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 First, fix the freaking offensive line to gain more then 2.8 YPC average with 19 rushes for 54 yards. Build a power run game to help the QB out even a little. Then hire an OC who can build a successful run / pass offense that can actually score in the red zone. Then lets revisit this conversation. Not even a mediocre journeyman QB who doesn't turn the ball over can elevate this teams offense all on his own.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 I couldn't agree with you more Alpha. Orton was absolutely piss-poor tonight, and played very EJ Manuel-esque. They always say you can't pin a loss solely on one player, but I'll be damn if he doesn't deserve a lion's share of blame for tonight. Was it just me, or were the receivers' body language tonight eerily similar to back when EJ was badly over/underthrowing/missing them? Yeah...and I was pissed at the WRs when they didn't play with heart for EJ against Houston too. Thats a sign of bad coaching and discipline IMO and needs to be death with. I would bench them all and start Hogan and Mike Williams next week to send a message. Seriously, its inexcusable in a must win game like this. Mistakes happen, opportunities are lost...but its not about them, its about what you do after them that separates men from the boys. Sulking is inexcusable in what was still a winnable game.
The Frankish Reich Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Miami brought the big time heat in the 2nd half and Orton's short passing game disappeared. He's Kyle Orton. He can't move to save his life, and he's never been good at delivering the long ball even with protection.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 14, 2014 Author Posted November 14, 2014 Just disappointed. I didn't think he could play that poorly. Who would have thought a ten year journeyman wasnt the answer? I've been defending Marrone, but he should be fired at seasons end. Mularkey 2.0 Marrone has proven to be a weak link as a HC and Hackett is a play caller in an era when you need a true "coordinator". They don't deserve continuity and if kept their ceiling is too low to ever challenge the best staffs. My favorite play call was the 3rd field goal drive when they are moving the ball well and are around the Dolphins 35 and he calls a delayed draw to the lumbering Boobie Dixon on first down and bogs the drive down. You just can't give away plays when you don't have the benefit of a playmaker in your receiving corps and have to survive on short passes.
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Marrone has proven to be a weak link as a HC and Hackett is a play caller in an era when you need a true "coordinator". They don't deserve continuity and if kept their ceiling is too low to ever challenge the best staffs. My favorite play call was the 3rd field goal drive when they are moving the ball well and are around the Dolphins 35 and he calls a delayed draw to the lumbering Boobie Dixon on first down and bogs the drive down. You just can't give away plays when you don't have the benefit of a playmaker in your receiving corps and have to survive on short passes. I caught that, too. Cannot for the life of me understand their fascination with the draw play. They don't work with Spiller in there for chrissakes. Why on earth would they would with a back like Dixon? I swear they are trying to outsmart themselves.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 14, 2014 Author Posted November 14, 2014 If only Bills had a WR who has a legit NFL resume... Sammy's hurt, Woods and Williams are head cases and Goodwin should probably just retire..... and subsequently the limited and inexperienced Hogan has become option #1. That's messed up. Without Sammy being Sammy these guys all get bumped up a spot and they aren't up to it.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Sammy's hurt, Woods and Williams are head cases and Goodwin should probably just retire..... and subsequently the limited and inexperienced Hogan has become option #1. That's messed up. Without Sammy being Sammy these guys all get bumped up a spot and they aren't up to it. I disagree. Woods in NE, Den, NO, etc would be a pretty good weapon...same goes for Mike Williams and Hogan. I think our WRs are talented, but they also are disheartened by terrible play calling, poor QB play, and just stupid penalties and turnovers. Think about it...how different really is Hogan and Edelman? I would take Woods over LaFell...I would also take Mike Williams over Lafell. Problem is coaching and QB play...its a joke here compared to those teams.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 14, 2014 Author Posted November 14, 2014 I caught that, too. Cannot for the life of me understand their fascination with the draw play. They don't work with Spiller in there for chrissakes. Why on earth would they would with a back like Dixon? I swear they are trying to outsmart themselves. Hackett is just calling plays and standing back and hoping they work. The difference between what he does and what Chip Kelly does, for instance, is like the spread between Jauron and Belichick as head coaches.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Hackett is just calling plays and standing back and hoping they work. The difference between what he does and what Chip Kelly does, for instance, is like the spread between Jauron and Belichick as head coaches. HA, so true
GG Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Sammy's hurt, Woods and Williams are head cases and Goodwin should probably just retire..... and subsequently the limited and inexperienced Hogan has become option #1. That's messed up. Without Sammy being Sammy these guys all get bumped up a spot and they aren't up to it. Most WRs are head cases, yet good coaches get production out of them. The basic fact that Hackett can't get anything out of Williams who has shown he can play in the league is mindblowing. Dolphins lost Finnegan and another DB during the game. You would figure this would be a perfect opportunity to get 4 WRs into the play rotation and exploit the mismatch.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 14, 2014 Author Posted November 14, 2014 I disagree. Woods in NE, Den, NO, etc would be a pretty good weapon...same goes for Mike Williams and Hogan. I think our WRs are talented, but they also are disheartened by terrible play calling, poor QB play, and just stupid penalties and turnovers. Think about it...how different really is Hogan and Edelman? I would take Woods over LaFell...I would also take Mike Williams over Lafell. Problem is coaching and QB play...its a joke here compared to those teams. You can disagree but the evidence is mounting on Woodsy. When he ran out of bounds on that pass earlier in the game after Orton had hung in and thrown a beautiful pass......that's just not something you see very often. That killed that drive. He had a killer drop last week and he appeared to me to be out of position on two Orton throws he failed to pull in in the second half. That comeback route was WAY too deep considering the circumstance. I wish I could give him the benefit of the doubt but both Orton and EJ have struggled to find Woods in spots where he doesn't drop the football and it's not necessarily like that with Hogan, Chandler or even Watkins.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 You can disagree but the evidence is mounting on Woodsy. When he ran out of bounds on that pass earlier in the game after Orton had hung in and thrown a beautiful pass......that's just not something you see very often. That killed that drive. He had a killer drop last week and he appeared to me to be out of position on two Orton throws he failed to pull in in the second half. That comeback route was WAY too deep considering the circumstance. I wish I could give him the benefit of the doubt but both Orton and EJ have struggled to find Woods in spots where he doesn't drop the football and it's not necessarily like that with Hogan, Chandler or even Watkins. I dont disagree about Woods and his concentration, but I just think the talent is there and his frustration is getting the better of him going back to the preseason. I also don't think the WRs believe in the coaches and their decisions. Why on earth is Mike Williams not starting and we instead carry a KO specialist? How much more important is that KO Specialist over a guy who's a beast to cover in the RED ZONE where we absolutely suck and are the worst team in the league by a wide margin? Seriously, what kind of coaching is that? I think Woods is an a**hole for playing not at 100% every play due to frustration, but I also think this team is terrible at using players properly and they are fed up. Put Woods in NE and I think he excels. Get a real QB here and a coach who knows something about football, and I think we see something different out the WRs. But I do agree, he hasn't been all there. Which is also why I stated start Hogan, Williams and Gragg next week to send a message about focus to the Sammy, Woods, and Chandler.
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 15, 2014 Posted November 15, 2014 Hackett is just calling plays and standing back and hoping they work. The difference between what he does and what Chip Kelly does, for instance, is like the spread between Jauron and Belichick as head coaches. Color me unimpressed with Can't Hackett.
JohnC Posted November 15, 2014 Posted November 15, 2014 Color me unimpressed with Can't Hackett. If you want to make Hackett hack it you need a qb that can make plays. Orton is regressing to his natural level of mediocrity. His molasses feet don't help much in extending plays either. No change in the organization or coaching staff is going to be as meaningful as having a quality qb taking the snaps. Until that glaring issue of qb capability is addressed little esle matters. The criticisms that Marrone is receiving for his cautious nature is valid but none of that is relevant if he had a qb that had a strong enough arm that could consistently connect with the receivers. On a couple of occasions Watkins was behind his coverage for potential plays that would change the dynamic of this low scoring game. The passes were not only not made they weren't even considered by the limited qb. The futility of this franchise continues and won't be altered until this organization finds a reasonable option at the most important position on the field. Cleveland got a "solid" bridge qb who stabilized the position and allowed that franchise to be a competitive team. The Cardinals went out and got the now injured Palmer on the downside of his career to change the fortunes of a struggling desert franchise. Philadelphia picked up a scorned NY qb in Sanchez and invigorated him by coaching him up to the point that he will be an appealing qb in next year's free agent market. What does our dinosaur organization do to staff the qb positon? They scour the waiver wire and make puny trades to bring in the Thad Lewis caliber of qbs off of the garbage heap. This lame organization was so desperate after witnessing their prized qb prospect be so inaccuarate and befuddled that they aggressively pursued a below average retread qb who preferred being retired and ensconced in his recliner rather than work out prior to the season. How pathetic of a reach is it for this laughable organization to pursue someone who was so disinterested in the profession he walked away from? For this very much ridiculed franchise it's obvious that the standard isn't excellence. But when you can't even identify and acquire a qb for a generatiion that is slightly above mediocre then what hope is there? It's embarrassing and pathetic!
machine gun kelly Posted November 15, 2014 Posted November 15, 2014 Most WRs are head cases, yet good coaches get production out of them. The basic fact that Hackett can't get anything out of Williams who has shown he can play in the league is mindblowing. Dolphins lost Finnegan and another DB during the game. You would figure this would be a perfect opportunity to get 4 WRs into the play rotation and exploit the mismatch. I thought the exact same point, why we weren't running a spread 4 wide set two with crossing route setting up picks, and a couple of outside go or post routes. They should have been exposed, but our predictable play calling was pathetic.
papazoid Posted November 15, 2014 Posted November 15, 2014 Orton is ranked 28th in Total QBR. EJ is ranked 32nd. that's NOT good enough. stop with the "if we only had" better players at 5 other positions. until you get a FRANCHISE QB, your just spinning your wheels. you overpaid for Mario Williams and look what he has done for the defense. your going to have to overpay for a franchise QB in free agency in order to turn the offense around.
Ted William's frozen head Posted November 15, 2014 Posted November 15, 2014 Hackett is just calling plays and standing back and hoping they work. The difference between what he does and what Chip Kelly does, for instance, is like the spread between Jauron and Belichick as head coaches. Bingo.
Gray Beard Posted November 15, 2014 Posted November 15, 2014 Most WRs are head cases, yet good coaches get production out of them. The basic fact that Hackett can't get anything out of Williams who has shown he can play in the league is mindblowing. Dolphins lost Finnegan and another DB during the game. You would figure this would be a perfect opportunity to get 4 WRs into the play rotation and exploit the mismatch. The Dolphins were having a great time with the short passing game. Then the BIlls lost one of their starting CBs. The Dolphins realized it and became unstoppable. For some reason the Bills couldn't (or wouldn't) take advantage of the Dolphins second string CBs. The O-Line was playing pretty well, and with an extra RB or TE for blocking help, Orton would have had plenty of time for the short passing game.
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