Alphadawg7 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 When Orton can A) lead the O to score either 1 TD or multiple FG's per QTR or I'll even accept B) long drive, score, punt, long drive, score, punt NOT long drive, score, punt, punt, punt, punt, short field score, punt, punt, short field score, punt, punt I will stop complaining about him. :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: This times 1000. This is all anyone is saying. Some form of consistency. Two good drives a game isn't going to get it done. Outside the Jets game, he has led this team to 17 points per game over the 4 other starts. And I don't expect our D to give us the ball 6 times via turnovers each week like it did the Jets game. He needs to find more consistency each week or we will not win many more games on our remaining schedule. Hopefully this Miami game is just what the doctor ordered.
Mango Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 The stats and eyeball test tell me the same thing: Orton is pretty good, but isn't great. And given the arc of his career, his play is about what I expected. I have trouble understanding the fans who think he's just awful. Just look around the NFL and I think it's easy to find worse QBs. Orton's certainly not the biggest problem with our offensive production. In any case, he wears Bills colors so I'm a fan. Orton is a band aide. Serviceable enough to not cost you games, provide the right amount of leadership, but also won't win you games. He is a reasonable place holder for EJ, another QB from the draft down the line, or even sooner, a FA like Bradford or Hoyer. When you have a QB of the caliber of Orton, the O should be designed around 2 guys, Spiller and more so Watkins. That's were the talent is, and you get the ball to them in a position to succeed. The last place you want to be with a guy like Orton or Fitzy is putting the ball in his hands with the game on the line. 9 GW drives over 10 years is nothing to brag about. Hell, the guy benched for Orton has 3 in 14 games. And EJ is (rightfully) on the bench. He is a game manager average/slightly below average NFL starter at best. Love the guts, moxy, and leadership from the guy. Glad he is here to fill this role. After the KC game, I am not sure what the biggest problem with the Offense is anymore. Which is actually the most frustrating part. Play calling, for the most part was better on Sunday. The OL dare I say played well, our skill positions seem to be good. Running game was exactly what we had hoped all year. Orton played "OK". Timing was off a bit, missed some reads, but that will happen with every QB not named Tom or Peyton. He is making some great throws that I watch and immediately think, EJ never would have completed that. Even on the 4 passes to end the game, people are claiming guys were open. They were some pretty tight throws to say the least. He did misfire big time. I guess I just don't have the answers as to where we go or what we do. Fire Hackett? OL? QB? WR? RB? All seemed to do an OK job but keep coming up short when it comes to points on the board.
Whack 'Em Williams Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Tonights game is Ortons chance to secure his spot at QB. Watch him show up and slap some fish around.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Orton is a band aide. Serviceable enough to not cost you games, provide the right amount of leadership, but also won't win you games. He is a reasonable place holder for EJ, another QB from the draft down the line, or even sooner, a FA like Bradford or Hoyer. When you have a QB of the caliber of Orton, the O should be designed around 2 guys, Spiller and more so Watkins. That's were the talent is, and you get the ball to them in a position to succeed. The last place you want to be with a guy like Orton or Fitzy is putting the ball in his hands with the game on the line. 9 GW drives over 10 years is nothing to brag about. Hell, the guy benched for Orton has 3 in 14 games. And EJ is (rightfully) on the bench. He is a game manager average/slightly below average NFL starter at best. Love the guts, moxy, and leadership from the guy. Glad he is here to fill this role. After the KC game, I am not sure what the biggest problem with the Offense is anymore. Which is actually the most frustrating part. Play calling, for the most part was better on Sunday. The OL dare I say played well, our skill positions seem to be good. Running game was exactly what we had hoped all year. Orton played "OK". Timing was off a bit, missed some reads, but that will happen with every QB not named Tom or Peyton. He is making some great throws that I watch and immediately think, EJ never would have completed that. Even on the 4 passes to end the game, people are claiming guys were open. They were some pretty tight throws to say the least. He did misfire big time. I guess I just don't have the answers as to where we go or what we do. Fire Hackett? OL? QB? WR? RB? All seemed to do an OK job but keep coming up short when it comes to points on the board. Great post... Consider last year and this year...Last year we had a rookie QB, a undrafted rookie QB no where near ready to play, and a 3rd string QB. We had injuries to the OL, all top 4 WRs and both our starting RBs. This year, we shed Stevie, Thad, and Tuel but added Watkins, Williams, Bryce, Boobie, and Orton. Very obviously we have MORE talent this year than last. Also, EJ has experience, our rookie coaching staff is now in its second year, and we have far less critical injuries. Given all that, you would expect our offensive production to be better. However, its worse in almost every offensive category and dead even in PPG. How is this possible? In fact, the defense is surredering exactly 4 pts less per game making our point margin +1.1 compared to -3.1 last year. That is exactly why our record is better now than last year because the margin per game equates to winning more close games where we lost close games last year, and the sole reason is the massive improvement Schwartz has made to the defensive production, especially the run stop. So for me, that tells me Hackett isn't cutting it or getting it. In fact, if not for the 6 defensive turnovers agasint Jets leading to a massive offensive score, we would even be averaging less points per game this year when our offense has less injuries, veteran leadership and MORE talent. How can this not be a direct failure on the coaches? We average less first downs, less yards, less red zone efficiency, etc etc. Only relevant offensive category better this year than last is 3rd down % and its barely changed and still ranked near the bottom of the league. How can this offense be worse under much better conditions? We have a better defense, comparable schedule, less injuries, more talent, more experience, etc etc...and yet offensively we have gotten worse. For all the hype about Orton, in the 4 games he played outside the Jets game, this offense has averaged 17 points per game...just 17 compered to over 21 last year with a medley of terrible QBs and bad injuries on both sides of the ball. its not all on Orton, and the clear problem for me is the horrible game calling, poor adjustments, and poor use of players. This is why I keep saying, Ortons stat totals don't paint the real picture of how this offense is performing each week. Great, he threw 4 TDs against the Jets...the D also gifted him the ball with incredible field position 6 times and Sammy took a short pass to the house. It also stalled out a lot and even had NINE 3 and outs. How many more games is our D going to destroy an opponent like that? This offense has no consistency, poor execution and is even averaging more penalties per game which shows poor discipline. Its not just Orton either...players drop too many easy passes, fall down on routes, miss running lanes, etc etc. As a whole, this offense is grossly under performing and its why we are last or near last in every offensive category. People here see near 300 yards passing and think the offense is doing great, but that has nothing to do with the actual performance of the offense. You can acquire 60% of those yards on two good drives, which is about all the offense has each game. The rest of the game its 3 and out or a couple first downs and punt or turnover. Orton and this offense better get their crap together tonight because season over if we lose tonight...yes I know mathematically we still have a small window, but thats not factoring Den, GB, NE, and Cle staring at us on our schedule, not to mention a Jets team that wants redemption. Edited November 13, 2014 by Alphadawg7
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Wonder if I am still going to get flamed over my HONEST analysis of Orton? Weird, pretty sure I was told over and over again I know nothing about football because I was critical of Orton and said he isn't playing good enough. Now that he has played us out the playoffs over the last 4 days, I wonder what people think now? Its disappointing, we had a legit shot at the playoffs this year. I want nothing more than him, EJ, or the Pope himself to assert themselves as a real QB who can lead us to the playoffs. But I warned everyone for weeks, if Orton and the offense play like they have we won't win many more games or make the playoffs. We wouldnt be able to beat good teams. The loss against two solid teams, KC and Mia in past 4 days is exactly what I am talking about and the loss falls squarely on countless squandered offensive opportunities. Sucks...its time to see if EJ has learned anything in my book. He either shows he can play or proves he can't. We need to know what to do for next year. Edited November 14, 2014 by Alphadawg7
26CornerBlitz Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 2-2 with EJ. 3-3 with Orton. Sure has made a great difference!
GG Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Orton looked like he had very tired legs by the third quarter.
FireChan Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Wonder if I am still going to get flamed over my HONEST analysis of Orton? Weird, pretty sure I was told over and over again I know nothing about football because I was critical of Orton and said he isn't playing good enough. Now that he has played us out the playoffs over the 4 days, I wonder what people think now? Its disappointing, we had a legit shot at the playoffs this year. I want nothing more than him, EJ, or the Pope himself to assert themselves as a real QB who can lead us to the playoffs. But I warned everyone for weeks, if Orton and the offense play like they have we won't win many more games or make the playoffs. We wouldnt be able to beat good teams. The loss against two solid teams, KC and Mia in 4 days is exactly what I am talking about and the loss falls squarely on countless squandered opportunities. Sucks...its time to see if EJ has learned anything in my book. He either shows he can play or proves he can't. We need to know what to do for next year. This was Orton's worst game by far. Like, it wasn't even close to how he played earlier in the season. So you were still wrong before.
Big C Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Orton turned into EJ all of a sudden. Only he can't move around.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 No. Its time to figure out another option at QB. I'd go hard for Hoyer in the offseason because I think he will be available with Manziel in the wings... I would be quite happy going after Hoyer...hes done pretty good with literally no weapons. Our offensive weapons are a significant upgrade over what he has had to work with.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Orton turned into EJ all of a sudden. Only he can't move around. Regardless of the crappy officiating, Orton stunk tonight. Staring down receivers and throwing late. Lucky he didn't throw a pick six and badly missed Sammy on a deep overthrow.
Nitro Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Orton is good for 20 passes. Then it goes to crap. His arm is shot.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) This was Orton's worst game by far. Like, it wasn't even close to how he played earlier in the season. So you were still wrong before. How? Outside the Jets game, he has averaged 15.6 points per games over the other 5 games. How is that good? Det - Terrible, and he threw a pick 6 that made the game tough. If not for their kicker missing all 3 FGs (don't know last time I saw that) we lose. NE - Not good, and he throws INT to end game. Minn - He scored last second TD to steal a game he mostly played subpar in against a 2 win team. Jets - Despite the score, he still led the team to NINE 3 and outs and after 3 first half turnovers, let the Jets back in the game because he couldn't move the ball. Fortunately the D took the game back over in the second half and Sammy took a short pass to the house. KC - Missed countless opportunities to score and had a poor overall game. Tonight - Epically terrible. Please show me one good game outside the Jets game. I don't want to see stat totals inflated by the Jets game. I want to see someone show me how averaging 15.2 points per game over the other 5 is good. And people conveniently leave off the lost fumbles when highlighting his TD to INT ratio. He has 6 TDs and 5 turnovers in the 5 games not playing the Jets. I want someone to explain how going from 47.7% redzone efficiency last year with a medley of suck at QB all year, hurt WRs and hurt RBs to under 40% this year and last in the league is somehow an improvement? Why are we worse in every offensive statistical category that matters this year over last year? Orton has played 60% of the games, and the first 2 weeks the offense was not that bad. I am tired of the excuses and over inflation of poor Quarterbacks like Trent, Fitz, and now Orton. Im so over it. Orton isn't any good, so start EJ the last 6 games and see if the light switch comes on. If not, go after Hoyer or someone in FA or draft a QB. This team will continue to suck with no QB. But, even more importantly...FIRE THE COACHING STAFF. It is inexcusable with more talent on this team, better production from the D that this team is doing so much worse on offense. Edited November 14, 2014 by Alphadawg7
Captain Hindsight Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Just disappointed. I didn't think he could play that poorly. Who would have thought a ten year journeyman wasnt the answer? I've been defending Marrone, but he should be fired at seasons end. Mularkey 2.0
first_and_ten Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 IMO we saw two things undo Orton in the second half. First, from my vantage at the front of the upper deck near midfield the coverage schemes were excellent and they were rarely in bad coverage matchup situations all day. They were in Hackett's back pocket and Orton had a hard time finding easy looks. They encouraged the Bills to run the ball and the Bills rewarded them by not putting points on the board. Second....and most importantly, I think that Orton's lack of physical strength showed. 17 pitches......he's good for. 49 is another matter. He is the physically weakest, most flat-footed QB in the league and there isn't a close second. There isn't much he can do about it now, he was basically retired until 2 months ago but throwing the football 45-50 times is a 100+ pitch outing for a baseball pitcher and the first thing that goes is the location. I think he was about 10 pitches past his limit. His offseason objective should be about 20# of muscle in the legs and core. I think it's time to go back to EJ.....they were 2 -2 when they made the move.they are 5-5 now....not much progress
GG Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 2-2 with EJ. 3-3 with Orton. Sure has made a great difference! Two more wins to get the elusive Jauron status.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 He's a good QB. He played well before he got hurt last year as I believe Mario tore his ACL. The organization lacks a QB and coaching staff. the two most important aspects in winning in the NFL. Agree 100%. Here is the deal though, i actually think Manziel might be the one available come next year. Hoyer has done a pretty good job with weak weapons as Gordon has been suspended and Cameron hurt all year. He is about to get both back in a week, just in time to tune up the week before we play Cleveland of course. I would think he will do even better with his weapons back and a healthy offense. Lets not forget he lost his epic center a few weeks ago too which greatly affected pass protection and the run game yet he has still been pretty good. I would think if Hoyer gets even better and leads them to the playoffs, especially a playoff win, that they would stick with him. Especially with all the ego and off field stuff that is part of the Manziel package. I can see them being in a tough spot and sticking with what they know in Hoyer...I would at least.
GG Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 I've been defending Marrone, but he should be fired at seasons end. Mularkey 2.0 Mularkey had much worse talent on offense, and he got them to play better.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 14, 2014 Author Posted November 14, 2014 Orton looked like he had very tired legs by the third quarter. Poor interior OL play + no RB's in for blitz pickup + ineffective play design blew Orton up in the second half. He's just a ball deliverer, he needs protection and playmakers. With Watkins crippled by his groin injury there is no big play threat which has decreased the area the defense needs to cover and put the Bills offense in a vice. Also worth noting that Robert Woods appears to be Leodis/CJ dumb. It's been assumed that EJ and Orton were not using this guy well but he just runs poor, sloppy routes and has poor awareness on the field.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Just disappointed. I didn't think he could play that poorly. Who would have thought a ten year journeyman wasnt the answer? I've been defending Marrone, but he should be fired at seasons end. Mularkey 2.0 I am with you on that as I defended Marrone earlier and blamed Hackett mostly. However, last weeks 4th and 10 was an epic mistake that cost us our season. We had several timeouts and over 2 minutes to play in a game our D had been strong. You take the 3 points, hold them, and go for a late FG to win. You don't throw on 4th and 10 when throws on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd were terrible. You don't throw on 4th and 10 when you are near last in the league at 3rd down conversions, mostly because we are in 3rd and long so much. Now this punt late...geezus, it was Jauron all over again. I can't defend Marrone, he needs to go, this team is undisciplined, has not identity on offense, and in a downward spiral.
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