Alaska Darin Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 it's not.. except that soem of my best role models were teachers. they'll likely have to try harder than i did to reach the same career level. that might not be achievable however. self sufficiency would seem a reasonable goal to start with. anything more is on the individual. They won't have to go far to be a moron.
DC Tom Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 it's not.. except that soem of my best role models were teachers. they'll likely have to try harder than i did to reach the same career level. that might not be achievable however. self sufficiency would seem a reasonable goal to start with. anything more is on the individual. Seriously?
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Seriously? Apparently self sufficiency can only be obtained through dependence and government intervention.
Chef Jim Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 it's not.. except that soem of my best role models were teachers. they'll likely have to try harder than i did to reach the same career level. that might not be achievable however. self sufficiency would seem a reasonable goal to start with. anything more is on the individual. Anything more than self sufficiency is on the individual?
IDBillzFan Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 self sufficiency would seem a reasonable goal to start with. anything more is on the individual. You are a dumbass of epic proportions.
birdog1960 Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 You are a dumbass of epic proportions. i don't see the problem. at risk kids often need help to even get to a level of sustained self sufficiency. the reality is that not everyone and especially someone with an iq in the bottom decile or so, is not going to handle an intellectually demanding job. most high paying jobs are just that. those that believe they have the ability to aspire for higher stations will need to do so on their own initiative and with less or possibly no organized assistance. but you all knew that. you're just pretending that you didn't. or is it that you're in the bottom decile?
Rob's House Posted November 18, 2014 Author Posted November 18, 2014 i don't see the problem. at risk kids often need help to even get to a level of sustained self sufficiency. the reality is that not everyone and especially someone with an iq in the bottom decile or so, is not going to handle an intellectually demanding job. most high paying jobs are just that. those that believe they have the ability to aspire for higher stations will need to do so on their own initiative and with less or possibly no organized assistance. but you all knew that. you're just pretending that you didn't. or is it that you're in the bottom decile? The more you say the more you make it clear how narrow your understanding is. Double digit IQ guys make a good living in trades all the time. You'd be amazed. I know a guy who can barely read (seriously) who makes well over $100k/yr grinding stumps.
birdog1960 Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) The more you say the more you make it clear how narrow your understanding is. Double digit IQ guys make a good living in trades all the time. You'd be amazed. I know a guy who can barely read (seriously) who makes well over $100k/yr grinding stumps. and do you believe he's typical or an outlier? the fact that you single him out as an example suggests the latter. Edited November 18, 2014 by birdog1960
Rob's House Posted November 18, 2014 Author Posted November 18, 2014 and do you believe he's typical or an outlier? He's obviously an outlier. You know who else are outliers? The dozen or so responsible, hard working people in America who can't find a way to make a living.
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 and do you believe he's typical or an outlier? I assume if you're on this board you're from WNY. There are a lot of "dumb" rural/farmer types that I grew up with that work their asses off and make bank. Many running their own business.
birdog1960 Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) I assume if you're on this board you're from WNY. There are a lot of "dumb" rural/farmer types that I grew up with that work their asses off and make bank. Many running their own business. then they're outliers as well: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm the best odds for making bank comes from making higher degrees which often but not always correlates with intelligence. Edited November 18, 2014 by birdog1960
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 then they're outliers as well: http://www.bls.gov/e...p_chart_001.htm the best odds for making bank comes from making higher degrees which often but not always correlates with intelligence. So what you're saying is that people with a higher education make more money. Huh, who would have thunk it. What do you think people with a higher education also have more of? Motivation and a desire to be sucessful. Money (ie government handouts) can't buy that.
birdog1960 Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) So what you're saying is that people with a higher education make more money. Huh, who would have thunk it. What do you think people with a higher education also have more of? Motivation and a desire to be sucessful. Money (ie government handouts) can't buy that. and access to higher education, mentors, tuition money , scholarships or grants, strong elementary and high school educations and frequently, inherent intelligence. but you are correct that no program or system can transform any kid into a undergrad or grad school graduate. still, overall, it's the strongest predictor of future earnings. this is likely to be even more pronounced in a tech driven economy. hence the emphasis on education as part of the solution to the problem of poverty. Edited November 18, 2014 by birdog1960
Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 and access to higher education, mentors, tuition money , scholarships or grants, strong elementary and high school educations and frequently, inherent intelligence. but you are correct that no program or system can transform any kid into a undergrad or grad school graduate. still, overall, it's the strongest predictor of future earnings. this is likely to be even more pronounced in a tech driven economy. hence the emphasis on education as part of the solution to the problem of poverty. So to get out of poverty someone needs a masters degree in engineering and they need to move to Silicon Valley?
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) and access to higher education, mentors, tuition money , scholarships or grants, strong elementary and high school educations and frequently, inherent intelligence. but you are correct that no program or system can transform any kid into a undergrad or grad school graduate. still, overall, it's the strongest predictor of future earnings. this is likely to be even more pronounced in a tech driven economy. hence the emphasis on education as part of the solution to the problem of poverty. The absurd stance that the key to success is a college degree serves to accomplish only three things: 1) rising higher education costs, 2) rapidly expanding student debt, 3) the devaluation of a college degree in practical terms. Or as Rob has said in the past: even if everyone has a college degree, someone still has to clean the toilet. I just happen to find it preferable that the guy cleaning to toilet doesn't have insurmountable student loan debt which he'll never be able to satisfy working his plunger. Edited November 18, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker
Rob's House Posted November 18, 2014 Author Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) then they're outliers as well: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm the best odds for making bank comes from making higher degrees which often but not always correlates with intelligence. Horse ****. Most people are not poor. Most people with double digit IQs are not poor. Stating that the richest among us have a correlation to the most educationally accomplished among us is neither insightful, nor relevant to the topic you were addressing. Edited November 18, 2014 by Rob's House
IDBillzFan Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 i don't see the problem. at risk kids often need help to even get to a level of sustained self sufficiency. the reality is that not everyone and especially someone with an iq in the bottom decile or so, is not going to handle an intellectually demanding job. most high paying jobs are just that. those that believe they have the ability to aspire for higher stations will need to do so on their own initiative and with less or possibly no organized assistance. but you all knew that. you're just pretending that you didn't. or is it that you're in the bottom decile? There are craploads.....CRAPLOADS...of services, mentor programs, churches, even government programs designed to help children become self-sufficient. Follow this very simple logic. THEY. ALREADY. EXIST. We don't need more programs. We need to reduce the NEED for these programs, and that starts with family. The inner cities are flooded with irresponsible adults popping out children exclusively to increase their government stipend. The ones who DO pay attention to their children, teach THEM how to live off the government, keeping the circle unbroken. The ones who DON'T raise their children at all leave them to be raised by the very people eager to teach the kids about respect and honor: gangs, where respect comes from putting a bullet in a 12-year-old black girls walking home from school. What you do is you begin to immediately wipe out government assistance, tying it to accountable adults who can prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, they they either are physically and mentally unable to take care of themselves, or are trying and simply can't get ahead. There are CRAPLOADS of tech schools, community colleges, etc., ready to help these people IF THEY WANT HELP. The rest? They get nothing.Take the off the handout rolls. Remove the incentive program. It's the first and foremost critical step to restoring the family. While we're doing that, let's stop randomly pissing on anyone who says they believe in God.
birdog1960 Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 There are craploads.....CRAPLOADS...of services, mentor programs, churches, even government programs designed to help children become self-sufficient. Follow this very simple logic. THEY. ALREADY. EXIST. We don't need more programs. We need to reduce the NEED for these programs, and that starts with family. The inner cities are flooded with irresponsible adults popping out children exclusively to increase their government stipend. The ones who DO pay attention to their children, teach THEM how to live off the government, keeping the circle unbroken. The ones who DON'T raise their children at all leave them to be raised by the very people eager to teach the kids about respect and honor: gangs, where respect comes from putting a bullet in a 12-year-old black girls walking home from school. What you do is you begin to immediately wipe out government assistance, tying it to accountable adults who can prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, they they either are physically and mentally unable to take care of themselves, or are trying and simply can't get ahead. There are CRAPLOADS of tech schools, community colleges, etc., ready to help these people IF THEY WANT HELP. The rest? They get nothing.Take the off the handout rolls. Remove the incentive program. It's the first and foremost critical step to restoring the family. While we're doing that, let's stop randomly pissing on anyone who says they believe in God. and those kids sleeping in their cars, trying to write on the back of a carseat? we've already agreed kids like these are unfortunately, not rare. where was all the crapload of help for them til they reached mid teens? you think they refused help?
DC Tom Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 i don't see the problem. at risk kids often need help to even get to a level of sustained self sufficiency. Yes, it's the old "give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for life." The PROBLEM is that that's not what you advocate. You want to teach the man to fish by giving the man other people's fish until he learns to catch fish. What's more, when he doesn't learn to catch fish, you think the problem is that you didn't give him enough fish for him to learn how to catch fish...so you give him more fish. Then you blame the fisherman for his inability to catch fish, because obviously the people with fish are withholding fish from those without, and you take their fish and give them to the people who can't catch fish, because now they can't even learn to catch fish, because they don't have fish to start with. Never once realizing that you never, not once, stopped to actually say "Look, man, here's how you catch a fish..."
Azalin Posted November 18, 2014 Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) and those kids sleeping in their cars, trying to write on the back of a carseat? we've already agreed kids like these are unfortunately, not rare. where was all the crapload of help for them til they reached mid teens? you think they refused help? and how is something like a living wage going to help THAT person any more than the assistance that (again) already exists? and who agreed that kids sleeping in cars, using the back of the seat as a desk, wasn't a rare thing? is that what it's like where you live? Edited November 18, 2014 by Azalin
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