mrags Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 This argument is logically inconsistent. If they're going for it on fourth down, then they're treating that possession as if it's their last. Therefore, running the time down is a positive, not a negative. not of you don't get in. Then you will need the ball back, which is exactly what happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 In criticizing the play calling we're always given the benefit of knowing the result in these kinds of situations. If they scored the go-ahead TD we'd all be singing a different tune so to speak. But that didn't happen and the problem is not this one particular failed scoring attempt but the red zone performance problem all season. This particular series of play calls repeating the pattern of past failures, the defintion of insanity as the saying goes. In this case, once the Bills got the ball down to the 15 they should have worked the clock as close as possible to a one possession game. Maybe you score and take the lead, maybe not, but you leave the Chiefs with as little time as possible assuming you go up 20-17. With about 2 1/2 minutes left, the 2-minute warning, and KC having a couple time outs the Bills had a potential total of 8 plays to run (assuming no penalties) from that point on the field to get the go-ahead TD. So abandoning the option to run didn't seem prudent. And watching the sequence of plays it appeared they were playing it like there was 30 seconds left with no timeouts. The play sequence to me looked like panic rather than some well thought out series of calls. A screen, a draw, maybe a Watkins reverse, something they hadn't shown yet, might have been considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 In the calm light of day, perspective is required. I was losing my mind during the last part of the game as we watched this one slip away. I thought how silly it was to go 4 straight times to the end zone with three minutes or so left. I won't bother trying to offer an opinion on the overall offensive Game plan and what might have been as I'm not a football coach. In the calm light of day, however, if seems obvious to me that the game plan and play calling were both fine. In fact, if should have resulted in a game we win handily. On the td drive & the bb fumble drive, we actually looked like a top tier offense. Everyone was in sync, the reads were good and the passes sharp and crisp. The play when bb fumbled was exceptional right up to the fumble. It was a potential backbreaker against a good chiefs defense. 7 points off the board. The drive at the end that started at the 25, there appeared to be at least two plays that were relatively easy to make but were simply missed. 7 more points that if execution is decent to good, the whole game changes and Hackett looks like a rock star trusting his JD-Swigging game winning qb to do what he does best-pay with some balls and win the game. This one is on the o, not the play caller, at least how it played out. Again, maybe a whole different approach to the game had us blowing them out, but that's a different discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOFO Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 If I'm the OC (God help us) and I know Orton is having a rough game...I continue to pound the ball and use a short safe pass trying for that first down...IMO it is the coaches job to put players in a position to do well...I don't think based on his play to that moment, the OC was putting Orton in a position to do well...of course there was a problem with execution, but I don't feel like Hackett had a feel as to what was working and who was on their game that day... And thanks for posting those pic from yards per pass...Sammy was really wide open.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 he was extremely open. That play Orton under threw the ball by at least 5 yards. Or as some would want us to believe, Hackett TOLD him to under-throw the ball by 5 yards Did everyone watch the same game on Sunday? Too many plays were left out on the field... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 You can talk about bad play calling all you want. The bottom line is the play calling was good enough to win the game if Orton makes a good pass in the red zone. He failed to do that numerous time. On the final drive he had receivers open repeatedly and flat out missed them. That's not a bad play call. That's a bad QB. ItS bad play calling when your QB is A . Orton and B . Orton on a bad day. Anyone watchingj this game saw KO missing open guys and being generally off all day. So a good OC would put less of the game on KO in that crucial 2 ndto last possession with a gift wrapped drive start at he KC 25. Why rely on an average QB who is off his game to win it when you don't have to? Give him some easy throws to backs in the flat or quick completions to WRs and let them go win the game for you . That would be smart play calling. They even ran a few of those plays with an empty backfield. Absolutely atrocious concept all the way around. NH called plays as if his QB was en fuego. Not excusing Ortons play, but you have to call plays as if he's not having his best day, because that was the reality. Shouldn't have been difficult to get 25 yards when you have 8 plays to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Shouldn't have been difficult to get 25 yards when you have 8 plays to do it. Yet it always is - strange how professional football works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 not of you don't get in. Then you will need the ball back, which is exactly what happened You only play to get the ball back if you kick the FG as it's highly unlikely that you'll have time to march all the way down field with no timeouts and score a TD. A hail-mary is likely at the end of the game in this scenario. Moving 30 yards into FG range, on the other hand, is manageable. They should have kicked the FG but if they were going to go for it on 4th down they should have known that BEFORE 4th down and called plays that set them up for success in this scenario not 3 shots at the endzone and then going for it on 4th and 10. I was happy with the play calling for much of the day but the play calls at the end of the game weren't great given the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) It's incredibly difficult for a fan to know every detail regarding the design of a play. Did Orton change anything after he saw the defense alignment? Maybe a play was supposed to go to Sammy for 5 yards, but the way the defense was set up Orton decides to go to his second read in the end zone. Maybe a receiver runs the wrong route or misses a hot read. The 4th down throw to Sammy, was he supposed to stop or come back to the ball? Was it simply a bad throw? I am not even going to pretend to know all the intricacies of a play call, but I know there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. So for us to just say poor play calling is the main reason they lost is a little ridiculous. Yes, some of the play calls drive me nuts, especially the results. But as stated earlier, better execution or a better throw and several of the play calls work as designed. Edited November 11, 2014 by ricojes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Yet another thread complaining about play calling and not describing what the actual plays were or the route combinations. People cry when the Bills run too much in a win. Now they cry when pass plays are called but Orton either misses a guy or doesn't see other wide open receivers. Straight up nonsense. When Orton took his shots at the end zone at the end of the game, does anyone really think that there weren't any underneath routes being run by the other eligible wide receivers? Guys got open, and Orton missed them. This game came down to execution. How can one complain about play calling when it seems many have no understanding of what they are watching? Yes, of course, Orton only had one option on any of those pass plays to end the game. Hacket obviously calls plays that give Orton only one target per play. Blame Hacket for everything all you want but the players lost this game, not the coaches. 1.) You didn't read the OP. 2.) There were no underneath routes. You can see the pictures above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Both of the redzone drives were insanely stupid. You don't throw 6 straight times in the redzone against the #1 ranked pass defense who also leads the league in sacks when you're averaging 5 yards-per-carry rushing that day and have Kyle Orton as your QB. I don't care how open anyone was. Kyle Orton is not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady and you have to figure his historically inconsistent play into your playcalling decisions. Bryce Brown and Anthony Dixon would have almost definitely got us TDs on those drives. How many rushing TDs has KC allowed again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 How many rushing TDs has KC allowed again? As many as we did going into the Jets game where they ran what? 3 in on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Yet another thread complaining about play calling and not describing what the actual plays were or the route combinations. People cry when the Bills run too much in a win. Now they cry when pass plays are called but Orton either misses a guy or doesn't see other wide open receivers. Straight up nonsense. When Orton took his shots at the end zone at the end of the game, does anyone really think that there weren't any underneath routes being run by the other eligible wide receivers? Guys got open, and Orton missed them. This game came down to execution. How can one complain about play calling when it seems many have no understanding of what they are watching? Yes, of course, Orton only had one option on any of those pass plays to end the game. Hacket obviously calls plays that give Orton only one target per play. Blame Hacket for everything all you want but the players lost this game, not the coaches. What I find funny is that all of the people blaming Hackett and making excuses for Orton are the same ones who were exclusively blaming EJ just a few weeks ago after the Houston game for missing wide open receivers. Orton does the same thing and now its playcalling. Comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 A lot of people were focusing on that drive after the game. How about this one?: 3rd Q 8:08 remains. Bills with 1st and 10 on KC 11. 1st down--pass to Brown to the 3 yard line. 2nd down and 2 at the 3--incomplete at the goal line 3rd and 2 at the three---another incomplete in the end zone 4th--kick FG. It's 2nd and 2 at the 2, then 3rd-----and not one run play to pick up a first down and goal to go?? Such bad red zone play calling. Chandler is going to be wide open, Orton rushed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) I'm fine with blaming them all. Kyle Orton is not Peyton Manning. How many clutch plays do they really expect him to make on game winning drives before he blows one? Everything in the book was screaming for run plays on both of those drives: -average run defense giving up 5 yards per carry -#1 ranked pass defense -Career inconsistent QB at the helm -First downs available just before the endzone on both drives And they pass 6 times in a row instead. They should have AT LEAST ran a couple times to put themselves in a 3rd/4th and short situation instead of trying to hit the endzone every freaking time. Edited November 11, 2014 by TheBillsWillRiseAgain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I didn't realize just how open Sammy was on the 4th down play (Credit to Yards Per Pass) this is the one that got me ^^^^ Damn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm fine with blaming them all. Kyle Orton is not Peyton Manning. How many clutch plays do they really expect him to make on game winning drives before he blows one? Everything in the book was screaming for run plays on both of those drives: -average run defense giving up 5 yards per carry -#1 ranked pass defense -Career inconsistent QB at the helm -First downs available just before the endzone on both drives And they pass 6 times in a row instead. They should have AT LEAST ran a couple times to put themselves in a 3rd/4th and short situation instead of trying to hit the endzone every freaking time. If it is too much to ask from your 10 year veteran QB to complete 1 out of six passes, then he should not be your QB. Plain and simple. It did not take a "clutch" play or anything dramatic. Just a simple, semi-accurate pass to the back corner of the end zone to a WIDE OPEN receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 If it is too much to ask from your 10 year veteran QB to complete 1 out of six passes, then he should not be your QB. Plain and simple. It did not take a "clutch" play or anything dramatic. Just a simple, semi-accurate pass to the back corner of the end zone to a WIDE OPEN receiver. They shouldn't have been asking him to do that in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 If it is too much to ask from your 10 year veteran QB to complete 1 out of six passes, then he should not be your QB. Plain and simple. It did not take a "clutch" play or anything dramatic. Just a simple, semi-accurate pass to the back corner of the end zone to a WIDE OPEN receiver. Did you see Newton last night? QBs have bad games ... Should Newton no longer be an NFL QB? Orton had a bad game ... let's see if he does better Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 They shouldn't have been asking him to do that in the first place. You shouldn't be asking a QB to complete a simple pass? Come on. Did you see Newton last night? QBs have bad games ... Should Newton no longer be an NFL QB? Orton had a bad game ... let's see if he does better Thursday. Newton is injured and was getting killed back there. Not the same at all. Orton had all day to complete a simple pass and failed miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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