dayman Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's offensive alright. Not good enough. "Don't confuse effort with results" - Bills Head Coach Doug Marrone Hey, it isn't the greatest show on grass but it is more explosive than it has been in .... well lets just say "years." I still don't know what McKelvin's "poor decision" was. He's a legitimate threat to return a punt the distance (and had two great returns yesterday). Are you really suggesting that in a 3-pt game with 10:00 to go he should have been told to fair catch no matter what? That, my friend, is the height of ultra-conservative strategy. Considering the vast majority of Bills fans were thinking, prior to McKelvin fumbling, "oh God I hope McKelvin doesn't fumble," I say it is reasonable to call McKelvin's decision to go nuts and hang the ball loosely a poor one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Jauron was blamed for the same thing with McKelvin: why didn't he tell him not to fumble?! Maybe in both cases the coaches DID say something. If so, we would never know probably. Case in point: the Chargers/Patriots* playoff game where the Chargers DB intercepted Brady's pass to win the game. But, of course (as ONLY happens for New England*) he ran around and fumbled the ball back to the offense. Game. What did people say? "Marty blew it again!" can't win in the playoffs! He went 14-2 but got fired anyway because a DB fumbled. The kicker? They did a Football Life episode recently on Marty where they showed him talking to that very DB in the pregame warm ups. He told the guy "when you catch the game winning interception, just do down, don't go running around and fumble." He then patted the guy on the back while they shared a laugh. The player even said something to the effect of "of course coach!" It was right there, on film. The coach DID say that but that exact player screwed up in that exact situation anyway. Of course, people blamed the coach. "You need to prepare your players there." My point is that ALL coaches tell players that stuff. If it's so basic that fans on a message board know it don't you think the coaches know to tell players that stuff too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Considering the vast majority of Bills fans were thinking, prior to McKelvin fumbling, "oh God I hope McKelvin doesn't fumble," I say it is reasonable to call McKelvin's decision to go nuts and hang the ball loosely a poor one. Hell, I say "I hope they don't fumble" for every kick and punt return. That's not McKelvin-specific. He didn't "go nuts" with the ball either. He was basically going down, was bent backwards, and a nanosecond before his knee hit the second guy came in. It was bad luck, not bad strategy, poor coaching, or an egregious player error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 job of a coach put your team in position to win, they do that quite a bit the players don't get it done. This isn't a coaching issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 I personally HATE punt returns. I always expect the return guy to fumble or a bouncing punt to hit a guy who isn't paying attention or someone to look a the punter wrong and get a penalty or someone to jump offsides on 4th and 2... I could go on and on. Maybe it's the Bills fan in me but I always expect disaster. And then you have the Chiefs who seem content to punt and let you screw it up to hand them the game and it gets even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Jauron was blamed for the same thing with McKelvin: why didn't he tell him not to fumble?! Maybe in both cases the coaches DID say something. If so, we would never know probably. Case in point: the Chargers/Patriots* playoff game where the Chargers DB intercepted Brady's pass to win the game. But, of course (as ONLY happens for New England*) he ran around and fumbled the ball back to the offense. Game. What did people say? "Marty blew it again!" can't win in the playoffs! He went 14-2 but got fired anyway because a DB fumbled. The kicker? They did a Football Life episode recently on Marty where they showed him talking to that very DB in the pregame warm ups. He told the guy "when you catch the game winning interception, just do down, don't go running around and fumble." He then patted the guy on the back while they shared a laugh. The player even said something to the effect of "of course coach!" It was right there, on film. The coach DID say that but that exact player screwed up in that exact situation anyway. Of course, people blamed the coach. "You need to prepare your players there." My point is that ALL coaches tell players that stuff. If it's so basic that fans on a message board know it don't you think the coaches know to tell players that stuff too? Look, even with Freddy hurt, there has to be someone better to put back there in crucial situations. McKelvin is good and should be allowed to return for us...but when the heat is on I think he goes out there with a mindset to push and make something happen...then he fumbles. He doesn't deal with the pressure well he shouldn't be back there in a close game with 10 minutes left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I still don't know what McKelvin's "poor decision" was. He's a legitimate threat to return a punt the distance (and had two great returns yesterday). Are you really suggesting that in a 3-pt game with 10:00 to go he should have been told to fair catch no matter what? That, my friend, is the height of ultra-conservative strategy. I do not trust McKelvin in key game situations because he has let the team down on too many occasions and he did just that yesterday. He's well known for mental lapses and yet again one of his blunders cost the team. On the play where he fumbled, I would have put ball security as priority over potential for a return TD with the way the Bills D was dominating in the game. There are times to be conservative just as there are times to be aggressive. It all depends on the situation. As I said elsewhere, he somewhat atoned for the blunder with a good return to the KC 25 yard line to put the Bills in business. Edited November 10, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I do not trust McKelvin in key game situations because he has let the team down on too many occasions and he did just that yesterday. He's well known for mental lapses and yet again one of his blunders cost the team. On the play where he fumbled, I would have put ball security as priority over potential for a return TD with the way the Bills D was dominating in the game. There are times to be conservative just as there are times to be aggressive. It all depends on the situation. As I said elsewhere, he somewhat atoned for the blunder with a good return to the KC 25 yard line to put the Bills in business. We all remember the kickoff against the Pats*. I'm not being obtuse, but what are all of these other occasions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 We all remember the kickoff against the Pats*. I'm not being obtuse, but what are all of these other occasions? Overstated on my part, but he's not sure handed enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 guys fumble... it happens Not every fumble is equal though. Bryce Brown's took 7 points right off the board and gave the Chiefs a huge momentum swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Overstated on my part, but he's not sure handed enough for me. And on that note I'll rest my case. With 10:00 to go in a 3-pt game you don't tell your punt returner to fair catch at all costs and "play not to lose." The result of that play was bad luck, plain and simple. Brown's fumble was preventable with better ball security, and Marrone should have kicked the FG late. Those are the two blunders I think account for this loss, more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) And on that note I'll rest my case. With 10:00 to go in a 3-pt game you don't tell your punt returner to fair catch at all costs and "play not to lose." The result of that play was bad luck, plain and simple. Brown's fumble was preventable with better ball security, and Marrone should have kicked the FG late. Those are the two blunders I think account for this loss, more than anything else. McKelvin is not dependable. The Pats game and now Chiefs game are clear cut "we lost b/c of him fumbling" games...that's 2 huge games he's lost himself (obviously other things went wrong...but those fumbles killed us). In addition to that...there are a slew of other fumbles/dropped ints/crazy plays in the secondary. There is no resting of the case for McKelvin. It was more than bad luck...it was McKelvin doing it again. We need to replace him, he's not the kind of player this team needs. Edited November 11, 2014 by MoreOffense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 McKelvin is not dependable. The Pats game and now Chiefs game are clear cut "we lost b/c of him fumbling" games...that's 2 huge games he's lost himself (obviously other things went wrong...but those fumbles killed us). In addition to that...there are a slew of other fumbles/dropped ints/crazy plays in the secondary. There is no resting of the case for McKelvin. It was more than bad luck...it was McKelvin doing it again. We need to replace him, he's not the kind of player this team needs. Suffice it to say we disagree, and I don't believe your comments are supported by either logic or empirical evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Suffice it to say we disagree, and I don't believe your comments are supported by either logic or empirical evidence. Well if they were then you could clue him in to the fact that we won a game silly because of McKelvin....and it was a Thursday nighted against the Fish too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well if they were then you could clue him in to the fact that we won a game silly because of McKelvin....and it was a Thursday nighted against the Fish too. One could also argue we won the Vikings game this year because McLuvin grabbed 2 picks for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 I trust in St. Doug! Pledge your allegiance here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Trust this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Trust this! A punt is not a bad thing says Cowher on the pre game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Marrone is as good as gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Marrone is as good as gone. Marrone is as good as gone. And deservedly so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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