1B4IDie Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 So many people complaining about the 4 passing attempts. Had we run(and gotten stuffed) on first down it would have been dubbed predictable by the board.....and then what? 3 passes....or another "predictable" run on second.....leading to pass, pass? People really need to learn that a play that doesn't work doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad play......and conversely a play that does work doesn't necessarily mean it is a good play. It just baffles me that for so many fans, the complexities of playcalling boils down to "should have run instead of passing".....or "should have passed instead of running". It's like people think the coaches are playing a simpler two option version of rock/paper/scissors. You missed the point completely. We passed into the endzone 4 straight times they didn't attempt to get the first down. You need to understand you're an ostrich with your head in the sand If you're defending that series play calling. Just completely oblivious to reality. Brown had a fumbling issue in Philly. He's a clown. CJ had a fumbling problem in Buffalo. That fumble happens just as often with Spiller. That fumble wasn't the game. The Bills still had a chance to win it with 2 mins left and blew it.
Dibs Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 You missed the point completely. We passed into the endzone 4 straight times they didn't attempt to get the first down. You need to understand you're an ostrich with your head in the sand If you're defending that series play calling. Just completely oblivious to reality. Not attempting to get the first down is not what most people were whinģing about. People were, as usual, crying over run instead of pass (or vice versa). It seems you missed my point.
Tintonfallsbillsfan Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 I can't put this lose on the coaching staff. Two huge fumbles, Lawson didn't contain, orton missed some throws, Three drops in the first half.
Tintonfallsbillsfan Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 I can't put this lose on the coaching staff. Two huge fumbles, Lawson didn't contain, orton missed some throws, Three drops in the first half. I can't put this lose on the coaching staff. Two huge fumbles, Lawson didn't contain, orton missed some throws, Three drops in the first half.
simpleman Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Doug Marrone is a loser, and a joke, and it's time to canonize him. By canonize him do you mean to shoot him out of a canon and back to college ball where he belongs?
Gordio Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 The players lost this one. Got to agree. It is not Marrone's fault that Brown doesn't know enough to hold onto the ball when he is about to score or that Mcdipshit fumbles another punt return(although given Mcdipshit's history maybe they should of put someone in there that is a bit more reliable). The 4th & 10, honestly that call could go either way. You can't blame him for that. The only thing you can blame Marrone for is not going for it on the 4th & 1. You spread everybody out & let Orton sneak it up the middle. That play is virtually impossible to stop. New England made something like 58 straight conversions on 4th & less then a yard running that play over the years. The only way the defense has a chance to stop it if there is a bad snap or something flukey like that. Make that first down & get 15 more yards & your pretty much in Carpenter's range. I don't think Marrone is a good coach but you really can't blame him for this loss. The players lost this game not the coaching staff imo.
birdog1960 Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Marrone is in over his head. Leodis is an awful football player. Watkins isn't worth an extra 2015 1st round pick and a 4th. The Cleveland Browns will be a playoff team before the Buffalo Bills. i think all of this is true, or at the very least 75% of it. and i'll add that it would be nice to have a TE on the roster who can tie his shoe, chew gum and not fall over all simultaneously. it's really not asking much. so yeah, there are legitimate grounds to harshly criticize the coaches and gm of this team.
peterpan Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 I also questioned why we threw it 4 straight times on our last two red zone attempts, but we were getting guys open. Orton was just off. Proton missed an easy te to hogan woods and two to Watkins. On that last forth down, Watkins was WIDE open over the top of the defender bit proton threw it as if it was a come back route. That pass would have won the game. Orton just missed it - and 4 others, any one of which would have been enough to win The 5-6 drops early in the game didn't help either. And it's clear proton is getting antsy in the pocket. The lack of quality G play is taking its toll on prton and clearly affecting him negatively
Captain Caveman Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Andy Reid is laughing all the way back to KC. 1st and 10 on the KC 14, and you get NO yards, and 4 straight passes for INC? 1. At least 55% of this place has been clamoring for weeks that we're too predictable and run too often. Now the other 55% is complaining that we passed 4 times in a row. In either case, the players need to execute. 2. The coaches put us in position to win that game, and we do win that game if McKelvin OR Brown don't fumble. 3. Andy Reid snored all the way back to KC and you know it.
freeagentqb Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 When the situation calls for pressuring the QB (like 3rd and 17) we send only three rushers which allows the offensive play to develop, gives receivers the needed time to get deep and the QB extra time to find the open receiver. I don't know, I'm not a coach, but it seems the correct call would be to rush and blitz the passer. A hot read pass, short throw or dump off probably won't get you near 17 yards and would be the better option.
RyanC883 Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 If anything, the problem comes down to "can't" Hackett. Two trips into the RedZone, and 7 consecutive passes. The last drive was particularly egregious. Why not run Dixon at least once if it's 4 down territory? Also, having Orton throw out of an empty backfield should NEVER happen. Why signal to a top defensive team that you are going to pass, particularly when the field is shorter in the redzone?!?! Only a very few QB's can operate this way (manning, ben, rodgers, brady.) Terrible job by Hackett. Yes, the players did fumble. But the B. Brown fumble was a really good play by the defensive player, Chandler needs to get the ball in the endzone, but he drops it like 1/2 of the passes thrown to him. And McKelvin, is anyone suprised that this guy fumbles in a key moment? Why is a CB returning punts?!?!! (coaching). Put a WR or RB back there (Goodwin, Watkins, B. Dixon)?, you know, people who are used to holding onto the ball while getting hit. When the situation calls for pressuring the QB (like 3rd and 17) we send only three rushers which allows the offensive play to develop, gives receivers the needed time to get deep and the QB extra time to find the open receiver. I don't know, I'm not a coach, but it seems the correct call would be to rush and blitz the passer. A hot read pass, short throw or dump off probably won't get you near 17 yards and would be the better option. totally agree. I love Schwartz, but he needed to blitz more at the end. Perhaps he figured the line was getting it done, but that is the time to send more guys.
The Frankish Reich Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 If anything, the problem comes down to "can't" Hackett. Two trips into the RedZone, and 7 consecutive passes. The last drive was particularly egregious. Why not run Dixon at least once if it's 4 down territory? Also, having Orton throw out of an empty backfield should NEVER happen. Why signal to a top defensive team that you are going to pass, particularly when the field is shorter in the redzone?!?! Only a very few QB's can operate this way (manning, ben, rodgers, brady.) Terrible job by Hackett. Yes, the players did fumble. But the B. Brown fumble was a really good play by the defensive player, Chandler needs to get the ball in the endzone, but he drops it like 1/2 of the passes thrown to him. And McKelvin, is anyone suprised that this guy fumbles in a key moment? Why is a CB returning punts?!?!! (coaching). Put a WR or RB back there (Goodwin, Watkins, B. Dixon)?, you know, people who are used to holding onto the ball while getting hit. totally agree. I love Schwartz, but he needed to blitz more at the end. Perhaps he figured the line was getting it done, but that is the time to send more guys. True. Sure, Brown should've held on, but he's trying to make a play (and as subsequent events proved, we needed him to make a play there since we were unable to punch it in in the redzone), and he's not being reckless with the ball in traffic. I hate to say it but the difference here was ... Alex Smith. His mobility was pretty much held in check all day, but that keeper for the touchdown is something Orton can't do. Other than mobility they are pretty much equal as QBs, but in the end, that mobility (or lack thereof) was why they got the TD and we never did.
enlightener Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 The players lost this one. hacket had no go to plays for the red zone... something designed to get a guy wide open, or a good chance of it. That said if Mcdummy doesnt fumble again we probably still win....Mcgoodwin tried hard to fumble on the next punt and brown was unlucky. Thing is Mcdummy almost always carries the ball like that..surprised it hasnt happened before...oh wait.
San-O Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 2nd and 2 at the three yard line and Hack runs two poorly designed / executed pass plays when the run game was well established while the passing game was weak all day. Pure stupidity throwing 48 times when yor defense is dominating, the pass protection is shaky at best and your best wr is at half speed. Just plain stupid Hackett has no idea how to win. Marrone stands there very clueless 4th and 10, down 4, 3 time outs, dominant defense you kick the FG. Stupid coach. Just stupid at least the fans that took buf and the 1.5 points don't get screwed Apparently that was the game plan: I wonder why someone hasn't asked him about that. THese are not game time decisions, but made during the pre game prep. Game planning. Maybe sense that your QB is having an off-day and call something different one of the four times? This happens all the time with RBs -- they aren't seeing the field well that day, or are fumbling, so their numbers aren't called as frequently. Maybe hoping that Orton was going to hit one against the league's premier pass defense wasn't the best idea. I posted during the week, watch Hackett game plan to attack/throw the ball against on of the best pass Ds in the league, and he does. OH yeah, and throw almost exclusively when ur in the RED ZONE and the field is compressed. AWESOME!!!
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 10, 2014 Author Posted November 10, 2014 1. At least 55% of this place has been clamoring for weeks that we're too predictable and run too often. Now the other 55% is complaining that we passed 4 times in a row. In either case, the players need to execute. No doubt about this, but aren't they in a better position to execute if they don't play into the opponent's strengths? I can't and won't argue that we're talking about none of this without the fumbles. It still feels like the game could have been won despite them -- since they have in fact done that a couple of times this year. I do think it goes back to the idea that you can't expect to have that kind of fortune when you do turn the ball over. I'll say this, too, now that my rage has cooled -- if this win was seriously unlucky, the Detroit one now looks even more lucky to balance it out. The Bills have handed them one of their two losses, even if it was with a hobbled Megatron and some circus plays from our guys. It pains me to say this as a guy who rooted (and still does) for EJ, but that Houston game will probably be the one we rue even more than this one. This is a better football team than that one, even if JJ Watt is a man of many talents and steroids.
Freddie's Dead Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Coaching does deserve criticism today. The Bills ran the ball 20 times (not including two Orton scrambles), and passed 48 times. In a game the Bills led all the way until 8:59 remaining in the 4th quarter. I listened to the game on Westwood One radio, and the announcers kept wondering why the Bills completely shelved their running game after the 3rd quarter. The Bills ran twice in the 4th quarter, to get the first down at the 15 yard line. Every other play in the 4th quarter was a pass. Once again Hackett gets caught up in the moment and can't see the forest through the trees. After running all over the Chiefs in the 3rd quarter, he completely abandons the run in the 4th quarter. Jauron and Gailey redux.
BELLABEANER Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Here is what I dont get. The Jets are 5th against the run and 17th against the pass. What do we do. Run the ball 29 times and throw it 17 times. The Chiefs are number one against the pass and 19th against the run. We throw it 48 times and run it 22. And by the way we averaged 5 yards per carry against the Chiefs. I think they call that outsmarting yourself. Yea the turnovers killed us and Orton missed some throws but arent you suppossed to exploit a teams weaknesses and arent you suppossed to avoid their strengths when possible? If we ever want to be a playoff team our coaches need to do everything possible to help the players not hinder them.
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 10, 2014 Author Posted November 10, 2014 Here is what I dont get. The Jets are 5th against the run and 17th against the pass. What do we do. Run the ball 29 times and throw it 17 times. The Chiefs are number one against the pass and 19th against the run. We throw it 48 times and run it 22. And by the way we averaged 5 yards per carry against the Chiefs. I think they call that outsmarting yourself. Yea the turnovers killed us and Orton missed some throws but arent you suppossed to exploit a teams weaknesses and arent you suppossed to avoid their strengths when possible? If we ever want to be a playoff team our coaches need to do everything possible to help the players not hinder them. I'm with you on this. I don't think they called a horrible game, in the main, but when you add it up it seems like they just aren't playing their best cards when the situation calls for it. The fact that Sammy was contending with the groin injury should have really helped support this strategy. I also think that if we had a QB who was very mobile, it might allow for what Hackett was calling to work in the red zone. As it stands, they got nothing.
negativo Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Totally agree with the majority. The playcalling was atrocious, the decision making on 4th down atrocious, the prevent defense on 3rd and 16 on the decisive KC drive atrocious. The entire staff is in over their heads, especially Marrone and Hackett. We have 11-5 talent with 5-11 coaching.
John from Riverside Posted November 10, 2014 Posted November 10, 2014 Im absolutely gonna give some coaches blame for lack of balls on that 4th and inches play.
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