Augie Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 The comparison to the '83 QB's is a good one. It's a great class, but I think Sammy is the cream of the crop. Don't forget the decoy stuff is (hopefully) related to a really tough guy playing with broken ribs and being protected to some extent. That in itself separates him from the rest of the class in some ways. Rib injuries are horribly painful. I liked Benjamin a lot in college (more than EJ, sadly), but Sammy is more dynamic and gets great separation. I'd take both though as I'm a greedy SOB. :-) I was shocked when Evans put up better number than Benjamin at the combine. It didn't look that way on the field.
FireChan Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 While you have to love what Sammy has done so far this season. You also have to look at Panthers WR Kelvin Benjamin who has very similar (almost equal) stats, and was the 28th pick. Kelvin is a beast at 6'5'' 240 lbs, and runs a sub 4-40. I have to ask why no Bills scout saw the potential In Benjamin? Anyway, Sammy would be beating Kelvin by a mile if the Bills had a better OC who didn't use him as a decoy, and got him the ball more often in games then just 2-3 catches a game. The Bills are exceedingly lucky to have Kyle Orton throwing so well, otherwise the need for franchise QB outweighs the need for a star WR. Strangely, I suppose this trade will depend a lot on how long Orton can play well enough to win games for the Bills. Kelvin Benjamin also has Cam Newton throwing to him. And is the only quality WR on the roster. He's a great physical talent, but he isn't close to the WR skills that Sammy has.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 no, but he playing well so I'll take it
GunnerBill Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 I went on record before the draft as saying I wanted Mike Evans, and whilst I liked Sammy Watkins I wasn't sure he could be the true #1 type of guy that the Bills needed. I also had concerns about Benjamin (hands and attitude) and I was high on Brandin Cooks and Martavias Bryant but not sold on Beckham Jnr. It looks, at this stage, like a very strong class. I was completely wrong on Watkins who has proved himself already the undisputed leader of the Bills receiving corps and Benjamin has looked genuine stud who has played up to his measurables. Those two have shone and many of those othe guys have flashed real quality. Tampa are so high on Evans that they considered Vincent Jackson tradeable. The 1983 Quarterback class was great... but as great as Marino and Kelly were, John Elway went #1 for a reason. I kind of see that here. That catch Sammy made on the drive at Detroit where the ball was behind him and heading for a sure fire pick to seal the game for the Lions and he reached back and tipped the ball back into his path..... that was world class. There are not many wideouts in the league that could make that catch. We have one who can for the first time in years. Sammy was the best pure receiver in a loaded receiver class. Injury allowing this kid could be that good.
Dorkington Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 He's been good, but phenom is something else, IMO.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 The last WR phenom was Randy Moss.
Mark80 Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 I would not call Sammy a phenom. I do thing he will be a star for a long long time but to date he has not shown he is superior to K. Benjamin, M. Bryant, O. Beckham, or M. Evans. If Sammy is a phenom, they all are. If they all are, it is a misuse of the word. I do think this might be the WR rookie class that is the equivalent of the Kelly, Marino, Elway, etc. QB class. Then Sammy = Elway or Marino the two best of the bunch. I think he has out performed all of the bolded players significantly. While you have to love what Sammy has done so far this season. You also have to look at Panthers WR Kelvin Benjamin who has very similar (almost equal) stats, and was the 28th pick. Kelvin is a beast at 6'5'' 240 lbs, and runs a sub 4-40. I have to ask why no Bills scout saw the potential In Benjamin? Anyway, Sammy would be beating Kelvin by a mile if the Bills had a better OC who didn't use him as a decoy, and got him the ball more often in games then just 2-3 catches a game. The Bills are exceedingly lucky to have Kyle Orton throwing so well, otherwise the need for franchise QB outweighs the need for a star WR. Strangely, I suppose this trade will depend a lot on how long Orton can play well enough to win games for the Bills. Benjamin ran a 4.61 40 time. He said he did it on purpose so the Panthers would draft him. I think he's faster than that, but still not as fast as Sammy is. Also, Sammy has / had better route running and hands coming out of college. I'm sure they saw potential in Benjamin, but they saw certainty in Sammy. Certainty is worth the #4 pick. Potential is not.
MarkAF43 Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 I think he has out performed all of the bolded players significantly. Benjamin ran a 4.61 40 time. He said he did it on purpose so the Panthers would draft him. I think he's faster than that, but still not as fast as Sammy is. Also, Sammy has / had better route running and hands coming out of college. I'm sure they saw potential in Benjamin, but they saw certainty in Sammy. Certainty is worth the #4 pick. Potential is not. You're right, Benjamin was considered a very good talent, but still raw in many aspects, so there were questions as to how long it would take to get him to the next level. He's developed nicely though and should remain a good fit with Cam for many years. NFL network just showed a preview of next week's game and said tannehill and the dolphins take on rookie phenom watkins and the bills. When I think rookie phenom (at least offensively), I think all the way back to moss with the vikings even though there have been other great rookie performances since. I just think that moss was unstoppable that year and really turned around the vikings right away. Do you all think Watkins is on that level? I am very high on him...I think he is the heart and soul of this team and a beast. I would say that Watkins has really turned this team around (along with orton). His play makes me think a little differently of our playoff outlook. I have thought for far too long now that the bills have lacked players that step up in tight games. We used to always make those dumb mistakes and lose in painful fashion because nobody ever seemed capable of making big time plays when they count. Sammy has done it a few times already and the fact that he is a 21 year old rookie makes it even better for me. Your posts have no credibility after the ridiculous way you continue to take shots at the true heart and soul of this team which is FJ and I'd also throw KW in that as well, but this team is defined offensively by FJ and defensively by KW.
thewildrabbit Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 I think he has out performed all of the bolded players significantly. Benjamin ran a 4.61 40 time. He said he did it on purpose so the Panthers would draft him. I think he's faster than that, but still not as fast as Sammy is. Also, Sammy has / had better route running and hands coming out of college. I'm sure they saw potential in Benjamin, but they saw certainty in Sammy. Certainty is worth the #4 pick. Potential is not. They could have easily brought him in to work him out and didn't bother, as he didn't run at his pro day. They had no interest at all from what I remember, and their #1 WR after Watkins was Odell Beckham Jr. Since the draft there has been talk that if they couldn't get that trade done the Bills would have gone TE in Eric Ebron. The Bills scouts seem to have a huge problem in finding talent for the O line, and after seeing this it could be a problem for other areas too. C'mon man a 6'5'' 240 WR is exactly what the Bills have been saying they have needed for 5 years, and he would be that huge target in the red zone like a tight end. Watkins does have way better hands, but both are also freak athletes. Anyway, two first rounders, and a 4th for a WR when you are not 100% certain you have the franchise QB on the roster. Whaley did bring in Orton so that's kind of a strange deal for me. The more the Bills win, the more fans will endorse the trade. So, lets hope the Bills keep winning!
stony Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 You're right, Benjamin was considered a very good talent, but still raw in many aspects, so there were questions as to how long it would take to get him to the next level. He's developed nicely though and should remain a good fit with Cam for many years. Your posts have no credibility after the ridiculous way you continue to take shots at the true heart and soul of this team which is FJ and I'd also throw KW in that as well, but this team is defined offensively by FJ and defensively by KW. God bless Freddy, but this offense is defined by Sammy. Thankfully, it appears the coaches are realizing it as well.
MarkAF43 Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 God bless Freddy, but this offense is defined by Sammy. Thankfully, it appears the coaches are realizing it as well. I should've clarified my point, I didn't mean defined in terms of FJ being the go to, I meant the heart, the soul, the never quit, never stop fighting attitude, the getting down and dirty to make plays. It would seem Sammy is following right in Fred's footsteps and thats tremendous news for Bills fans
RCOHEN13 Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 He's terrific, they need to target him more,end arounds,bubble screens. I think the lack of screens and end arounds has been cuz of the ribs.. When a WR runs an end around or a bubble screen, he;s usually gonna get hit by few guys and get taken down in traffic, our guys and the D tend to get piled up... It's come out that his ribs were actually broken, not just bruised so to keep him healthier, limiting that phase has kept him upright (so far). Hopefully this groin isnt serious cuz in order to make a playoff push, we need Sammy even more involved.. That should mean those bubble screens and such. At Clemson, they did it SOOOOOOO often with him and he was so effective at it. The only thing that makes any sense at all for the reason they havent done it, is the ribs... BUT... with Hackett, who knows! He may be the only OC stupid enough to misuse/ underuse a PHENOM talent like Sammy I would not call Sammy a phenom. I do thing he will be a star for a long long time but to date he has not shown he is superior to K. Benjamin, M. Bryant, O. Beckham, or M. Evans. If Sammy is a phenom, they all are. If they all are, it is a misuse of the word. I do think this might be the WR rookie class that is the equivalent of the Kelly, Marino, Elway, etc. QB class. Then Sammy = Elway or Marino the two best of the bunch. Great points... This has definitely been the strongest rookie group of WR's in a long time. Probably since the Eric Mould's draft. That draft had some GREAT WR's. Keyshawn at 1, Terry Glenn at 7, Eddie Kennison (not close to a star, but not a total bust) at 18, Marvin Harrison at 19, and Moulds at 24.
stevewin Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 I think the lack of screens and end arounds has been cuz of the ribs.. When a WR runs an end around or a bubble screen, he;s usually gonna get hit by few guys and get taken down in traffic, our guys and the D tend to get piled up... It's come out that his ribs were actually broken, not just bruised so to keep him healthier, limiting that phase has kept him upright (so far). Hopefully this groin isnt serious cuz in order to make a playoff push, we need Sammy even more involved.. That should mean those bubble screens and such. At Clemson, they did it SOOOOOOO often with him and he was so effective at it. The only thing that makes any sense at all for the reason they havent done it, is the ribs... BUT... with Hackett, who knows! He may be the only OC stupid enough to misuse/ underuse a PHENOM talent like Sammy Great points... This has definitely been the strongest rookie group of WR's in a long time. Probably since the Eric Mould's draft. That draft had some GREAT WR's. Keyshawn at 1, Terry Glenn at 7, Eddie Kennison (not close to a star, but not a total bust) at 18, Marvin Harrison at 19, and Moulds at 24. I think Hackett will come around and innovate to get Sammy the ball more more by handing off to him and pounding him up the middle for 1 yd gains
mousetrap08 Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 YES nothing better than fresh mouse meat.
Storm Front Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 At the beginning of the season, Sammy didn't look that great. This was due to his injured ribs and a rookie QB that could not toss a simple pass to a WR further than 5 yards. Sammy looks incredible now that the Bills have an NFL QB throwing passes. I always thought Lee Evans could have had a great career if he had someone decent to throw him the ball back in the day.
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 Whenever I ask myself how good a WR really is, I walways ask "What would he be able to do with a top 5 QB throwing to him?" Sammy would put up Randy Moss-like rookie numbers with that kind of QB throwing to him. So yes, I consider him a rookie "phenom." With even Kyle Orton throwing to him for all 8 games so far this season he'd probably have over 800 yards already.
NewEra Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 He's a phenom and he's better than all the other rookies in this class. Eyeballs don't lie. Stats do.
OldNMBillsFan Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 Whenever I ask myself how good a WR really is, I walways ask "What would he be able to do with a top 5 QB throwing to him?" Sammy would put up Randy Moss-like rookie numbers with that kind of QB throwing to him. So yes, I consider him a rookie "phenom." With even Kyle Orton throwing to him for all 8 games so far this season he'd probably have over 800 yards already. Randy Moss's first 8 games of his rookie season. 30 Receptions, 593 yards, 6 TDs Sammy Watkins first 8 games. 38 receptions, 590 Yards, 5 TDs His numbers are about equal half way through the season. It will be interesting to see what Sammy will do the second half of the season. GO Bills!!!
stony Posted November 7, 2014 Posted November 7, 2014 I should've clarified my point, I didn't mean defined in terms of FJ being the go to, I meant the heart, the soul, the never quit, never stop fighting attitude, the getting down and dirty to make plays. It would seem Sammy is following right in Fred's footsteps and thats tremendous news for Bills fans A better role model there is none.
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