Foles: GM "Soured" On QB Before Injury

[The Voice of Truth]

I actually think Chip Kelly has found a system that many QBs can thrive in. I think he has come up with an idea that solves the "you have to find a franchise QB" problem. You don't need it in his system. They only run a limited number of plays so this takes a lot of the cognitive load off of the QB. They don't need to be thinking like crazy on the field. Also, they only have to master a limited number of throws. Foles may be good but I think his success is more a result of Chip Kelly's offensive design and not his ability.

Edited November 5, 2014 by The Voice of Truth

[Deranged Rhino]

I meant watching him in NFL games on the Eagles. You know, for the seasons GMs may sour on guys. Every time I see him he doesn't impress me that much. But I haven't seen him a ton.

 

I have watched a ton of Foles, he's a low ceiling guy with questionable skills. He has good touch, but suspect accuracy on deep balls. He runs okay but not great. He doesn't get rattled (which is a plus) but he doesn't elevate his play either -- he's always the same guy.

 

It's a hard pass on Foles for me. I think Sanchez takes his job -- and thought that even before this news came out. Chip Kelly doesn't care who takes snaps for him, the ego on Chip might be bigger than Bellyaches.

[Kelly the Dog]

I have watched a ton of Foles, he's a low ceiling guy with questionable skills. He has good touch, but suspect accuracy on deep balls. He runs okay but not great. He doesn't get rattled (which is a plus) but he doesn't elevate his play either -- he's always the same guy.

 

It's a hard pass on Foles for me. I think Sanchez takes his job -- and thought that even before this news came out. Chip Kelly doesn't care who takes snaps for him, the ego on Chip might be bigger than Bellyaches.

Thanks for that.

 

Drafting Matt Barkley may be proof positive that it doesn't matter who plays QB for the Eagles, and Chip Kelly reminds me of some sportswriter, IIRC, saying something along the lines of "There is nothing bigger in this world than Robert Irsay's ego."

 

I still wanted him as Bills coach though. At this point, I'm not sure either way whether NFL defenses will catch up to him or whether he will always stay slightly ahead.

[starrymessenger]

Or maybe this report, with Foles probably wanting a new contract, is all about the Eagles trying to obtain some sort of leverage in negotiations?

 

Foles is entering the final year of his rookie contract next year.

 

But if this is reality, then yeah I blame the few rookies who are relatively successful out of the gate for amping up expectations for your signal callers.

 

Bargaining power was the first thing that occurred to me as well. We will know that's the case if indeed they wind up locking him up.

Hearing so much that is negative from posters who have seen him a lot makes me wonder though.

I was always pretty impressed with him but I haven't seen enuf to have a firm opinion.

[Charles Romes]

Throw orton 8m for 1 year after his first bad game and call it a day.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Throw orton 8m for 1 year after his first bad game and call it a day.

Why on earth would Orton do that?

[Deranged Rhino]

Thanks for that.

 

Drafting Matt Barkley may be proof positive that it doesn't matter who plays QB for the Eagles, and Chip Kelly reminds me of some sportswriter, IIRC, saying something along the lines of "There is nothing bigger in this world than Robert Irsay's ego."

 

I still wanted him as Bills coach though. At this point, I'm not sure either way whether NFL defenses will catch up to him or whether he will always stay slightly ahead.

 

Exactly, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that CK thinks he can win with JAGs on offense (and I think he even said as much before the draft). I want a coach with an edge like that, so long as he delivers. So far Chip has, but he's coaching in a town with a short temper and memory. If he doesn't stay ahead of the curve, it will get ugly in Philly before long.

[Mr. WEO]

The immediate reaction to everything is funny. You struggle one game, you suck. Erase everything that happened prior.

 

And let's switch Foles and EJ. Who is more likely to be a better player - Foles with Hackett or EJ with Kelly? Kelly runs about as QB friendly of an offense as there is in the league. When he says he needs players to fit his system, you listen because he has a great track record of offensive success. We lack that on our coaching staff.

 

To fully evaluate any offensive player right now is silly. The entire offense has regressed.

And Sanchez was awful before. Chip Kelly is a beast. I completely underrated him.

 

And Sanchez has one decent game and Chip Kelly is a genius. I guess you "erased everything that happened prior" with Sanchez. Awesome stuff.

 

Chip Kelly has never had an Oregon QB succeed as a starter in the NFL--so his offense was not very useful for QBs...the opposite, actually.

[Kelly the Dog]

To further the discussion about Chip Kelly thinking, egotistically (which isn't always a bad thing in pro sports), that he can mold any decent QB into a productive one was always my theory on Saint Doug with Jeff Tuel, and to a smaller degree EJ and Thad Lewis.

 

This is total conjecture, but after watching and reading and thinking, I always thought that Marrone convinced Whaley that he could make EJ a franchise QB because of Marrone's history with Nassib. And that EJ was a much better slab of clay. And the same thing must have happened with Jeff Tuel. That Marrone said this guy has some skill and I can make him great.

 

And Whaley finally said enough is enough and pulled the plug on the whole thing and got Orton and cut Tuel.

 

I don't have any proof for this, but it's the ONLY thing that makes sense to me. It explains why we didn't go harder for a back-up in the off season, and why we kept Tuel for so long when it was pretty clear he had no business holding the job he held.

 

And Sanchez has one decent game and Chip Kelly is a genius. I guess you "erased everything that happened prior" with Sanchez. Awesome stuff.

 

Chip Kelly has never had an Oregon QB succeed as a starter in the NFL--so his offense was not very useful for QBs...the opposite, actually.

OR, he's really that good and he can win with anyone.

 

I'm not saying that is true. That story has yet to be written. Getting guys like Foles to play like he did last year says to me that he can make chicken salad out of chickenschitt. But it remains to be seen if he can do it over time, and he can do it well enough to win it all. I still wouldn't mind him as my coach.

[starrymessenger]

 

 

 

And Sanchez has one decent game and Chip Kelly is a genius. I guess you "erased everything that happened prior" with Sanchez. Awesome stuff.

 

Chip Kelly has never had an Oregon QB succeed as a starter in the NFL--so his offense was not very useful for QBs...the opposite, actually.

 

Wasn't watching the game so I don't know how well he did.

But didn't he throw two picks. In one game. And didn't Foles throw two all of last year.

Just looking at the stat line MS didn't seem that impressive, though of course that is sometimes misleading.

[mannc]

 

 

 

Chip Kelly has never had an Oregon QB succeed as a starter in the NFL--so his offense was not very useful for QBs...the opposite, actually.

That's a ridiculous statement. He had a total of two QBs at Oregon: Derron Thomas and Marcus Mariota. (If you go back to Chip's days as a coordinator at U of O, he also had Jeremiah Massoli, who was tossed out of school before he finished his career. Massoli went to the same High School as Mariota, BTW.) Thomas, who led the team to the national championship game in 2010, was not only undrafted but could not even get invited to an NFL training camp. He's now playing Arena Football in Portland. Thomas was a very good college QB who apparently did not have the arm strength or accuracy to even get a chance in the NFL. Mariota of course has not yet had the opportunity to "succeed as a starter in the NFL" but I like his chances. I have no idea what that absurdly small sample proves or does not prove about Chip Kelly's offense. Edited November 5, 2014 by mannc

[A Dog Named Kelso]

And Sanchez has one decent game and Chip Kelly is a genius. I guess you "erased everything that happened prior" with Sanchez. Awesome stuff.

 

Chip Kelly has never had an Oregon QB succeed as a starter in the NFL--so his offense was not very useful for QBs...the opposite, actually.

I am not claiming Sanchez is great by any means but his tenure with the Jets may not be the best way to evaluate him. He had hardly, if any, skill position players of note on offense and switched OCs several times. Perhaps with what they have in Philly he might show far more promise.

Edited November 5, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[BigBuff423]

 

I meant watching him in NFL games on the Eagles. You know, for the seasons GMs may sour on guys. Every time I see him he doesn't impress me that much. But I haven't seen him a ton.

 

Fair question, but your original question was answered in all those comments / quotes and the QBR stats I provided. However, I can't say I've seen him "a ton" either, so I'm basing it on statistics, aforementioned scouting report coming out of college two years ago and the fact that he's had a rough half to this season, but a phenomenal one last year, Kelly's first season, and still has posted better numbers than any QB (Orton is the exception, for now) the BILLS have had in nearly 15 years....so to me, assuming nothing on Orton be it good or bad for the remainder of this season, Foles' promise would be too good to pass up unless Eagles want 3rd Round Draft pick or higher or if Foles tries to command elite QB money...otherwise, as I mentioned in an earlier response, paying Foles Fitz type money would seem to be a wise investment on the potential return....JMHO of course.

[mannc]

 

I am not claiming Sanchez is great by any means but his tenure with the Jets may not be the best way to evaluate him. He had hardly if any skill position players of note on offense and switched OCs several times. Perhaps with what they have in Philly he might show far more promise.

I agree. It's pretty obvious that Sanchez had worn out his welcome in NY and his confidence was shot. He has the physical tools and is still young for a QB. There is no reason he can't succeed in a new system.

[Deranged Rhino]

Fair question, but your original question was answered in all those comments / quotes and the QBR stats I provided. However, I can't say I've seen him "a ton" either, so I'm basing it on statistics, aforementioned scouting report coming out of college two years ago and the fact that he's had a rough half to this season, but a phenomenal one last year, Kelly's first season, and still has posted better numbers than any QB (Orton is the exception, for now) the BILLS have had in nearly 15 years....so to me, assuming nothing on Orton be it good or bad for the remainder of this season, Foles' promise would be too good to pass up unless Eagles want 3rd Round Draft pick or higher or if Foles tries to command elite QB money...otherwise, as I mentioned in an earlier response, paying Foles Fitz type money would seem to be a wise investment on the potential return....JMHO of course.

 

Foles's statistical season was largely a product of NFL defenses not having film on Kelly's offense. It had far less to do with Foles' abilities which are limited than it did Kelly's inventiveness. The adjustments made by defenses this year have stymied Foles more often than not. He's not the QB you think he his based on his stats. He really isn't.

[BigBuff423]

 

 

Foles's statistical season was largely a product of NFL defenses not having film on Kelly's offense. It had far less to do with Foles' abilities which are limited than it did Kelly's inventiveness. The adjustments made by defenses this year have stymied Foles more often than not. He's not the QB you think he his based on his stats. He really isn't.

 

And for someone who has watched more Foles than myself (based on previous post), I'll defer to your insight.

[mannc]

There is speculation that the Browns are open to offers for Manziel. I wonder if the Eagles are thinking about it. Kelly recruited JFF heavily in high school; in fact, he signed with U of O then backed out to go to A&M. He would seem to be well-suited to run Kelly's system.

[PromoTheRobot]

There is speculation that the Browns are open to offers for Manziel. I wonder if the Eagles are thinking about it. Kelly recruited JFF heavily in high school; in fact, he signed with U of O then backed out to go to A&M. He would seem to be well-suited to run Kelly's system.

Why would the Browns take something less than a #22 pick for Manziel? That would make him a wasted pick.

[mannc]

 

Why would the Browns take something less than a #22 pick for Manziel? That would make him a wasted pick.

Who said they would?

[BigBuff423]

Who said they would?

 

That would give the Browns 3 1st Round picks....wow!