jjamie12 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I've wondered the last few years why university gets a free pass on their whacked out tuition's. I compare it to other business endeavors. Unlike manufacturing for example there is almost no capital investment required once they have the university actually built. No constant buying and upgrading of equipment. Certainly no R&D to remain competitive. No investment in inventory. Everyone just accepts it because that's just the way it is. I guess when getting government loans are so easy to get that inflates the prices. Just like the housing bubble. I think you would be shocked to see what kind of development is actually happening at universities these days. I visited High Point University earlier this year. They have a steak house on campus that is part of the meal plan. Like a legitimate, high-end steak house. Part of tuition increases are this type of frivolous nonsense. I also happen to head down to Quinnipiac University pretty regularly as well. The 'dorms' that these kids live in today are palaces. The amount of new development around these places is astounding. Additionally, government keeps guaranteeing ever larger portions of loans -- allowing universities to increase tuition (people wouldn't be able to afford tuition hikes without these ever-increasing loan amounts), forcing politicians who 'care' to rail about how burdensome college education is, so they increase loan guarantees, allowing universities to increase tuition, forcing politicians who 'care' to rail about how burdensome college education is, so the increase loan guarantees, etc... The merry-go-round has to end soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I've wondered the last few years why university gets a free pass on their whacked out tuition's. I compare it to other business endeavors. Unlike manufacturing for example there is almost no capital investment required once they have the university actually built. No constant buying and upgrading of equipment. Certainly no R&D to remain competitive. No investment in inventory. Everyone just accepts it because that's just the way it is. I guess when getting government loans are so easy to get that inflates the prices. Just like the housing bubble. Because there no mechanism or market force which acts to keep tuition reasonable. Demand is pretty inelastic as we've seen. No matter what the cost people still pay because the current system all but demands a college education. Highschool guidance counselors and parents have convinced everyone that a degree from a top program guarantees the good life. 18 year olds have access to near unlimited debt, and the school isn't on the hook when the loan goes breasts up. Due to this combination of factors, universities can basically charge whatever they want risk free. Given this scenario, why wouldn't you charge $80,000 per year? Build another dorm, remodel everything, new gym, everyone gets an iPad. Spend, spend, spend if you can attract a few more students. Its the perfect racket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) I've wondered the last few years why university gets a free pass on their whacked out tuition's. I compare it to other business endeavors. Unlike manufacturing for example there is almost no capital investment required once they have the university actually built. No constant buying and upgrading of equipment. Certainly no R&D to remain competitive. No investment in inventory. Everyone just accepts it because that's just the way it is. I guess when getting government loans are so easy to get that inflates the prices. Just like the housing bubble. The demand for college is mind-bogglingly high. It's completely inflated. Older generations push their kids to go to more prestigious and more expensive schools, even though it amounts to nothing. College is still treated as a slam-dunk for your career. It's mostly the people's fault for not seeing that, though. Edited November 4, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The demand for college is mind-bogglingly high. It's completely inflated. Even if everyone in the world had a college education someone would still have to clean the toilet. Enter structural employment gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I think you would be shocked to see what kind of development is actually happening at universities these days. I visited High Point University earlier this year. They have a steak house on campus that is part of the meal plan. Like a legitimate, high-end steak house. Part of tuition increases are this type of frivolous nonsense. I also happen to head down to Quinnipiac University pretty regularly as well. The 'dorms' that these kids live in today are palaces. The amount of new development around these places is astounding. Additionally, government keeps guaranteeing ever larger portions of loans -- allowing universities to increase tuition (people wouldn't be able to afford tuition hikes without these ever-increasing loan amounts), forcing politicians who 'care' to rail about how burdensome college education is, so they increase loan guarantees, allowing universities to increase tuition, forcing politicians who 'care' to rail about how burdensome college education is, so the increase loan guarantees, etc... The merry-go-round has to end soon... all this stuff is ridiculously excessive and unsustainable.it won't last. it's ending now. when peter thiel tells kids that college is a waste of time, i think he's wrong but many people see these types of excesses and end at the same conclusion. per the quote i posted of tom, of car talk fame, "happiness=reality - expectations". many millenials have come up negative in this equation and some of this can be attributed to boutique schools and the unrealistic expectations they foster. they aren't needed, they aren't important to individual or collective success. and they aren't affordable to any but a very small minority. yet they are still misrepresented as the key to fulfillment. people are quickly beginning to stop believing this bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I've wondered the last few years why university gets a free pass on their whacked out tuition's. I compare it to other business endeavors. Unlike manufacturing for example there is almost no capital investment required once they have the university actually built. No constant buying and upgrading of equipment. Certainly no R&D to remain competitive. No investment in inventory. Everyone just accepts it because that's just the way it is. I guess when getting government loans are so easy to get that inflates the prices. Just like the housing bubble. Costs spiral out of control because the government subsidizes costs and guarantees the repayment of education debt. Remove that, and costs retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Preferred shares were simply a funding mechanism for the stabilizing liquidity. It could have been common equity or some firm of debt. The second part was not a bailout of the banks liquidity, but to try to stimulate economic growth, which is the linchpin of Obama's economic plan. That's why it's disingenuous to say that the second part is a bailout of the banks. They're just the main beneficiaries of a craptastic economic plan. wtf, are you saying the Fed's bailout was Obama's plan?!? Are you trying to say Obama controls the a Fed?!? Speak English man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 wtf, are you saying the Fed's bailout was Obama's plan?!? Are you trying to say Obama controls the a Fed?!? Speak English man! He doesn't control it, but I do recall the sword of damocles hanging over Bernanke in the reconfirmation process. And why do you call part two a bailout. Isn't it referred to as a stimulus in your circles? How has that grand Keynesian experience worked out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 The demand for college is mind-bogglingly high. It's completely inflated. Older generations push their kids to go to more prestigious and more expensive schools, even though it amounts to nothing. College is still treated as a slam-dunk for your career. It's mostly the people's fault for not seeing that, though. College is certainly not a slam dunk but going to a better school and getting better grades, taking advantage of co-op and internship programs that the better schools offer plus potentially being recruited by top companies that interview at the betters schools can make a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Costs spiral out of control because the government subsidizes costs and guarantees the repayment of education debt. Remove that, and costs retreat. This is true, yet strangely liberals support the structure that enables big education to burden the younger generation with smothering debt, thus keeping those from lower income families from being able to pull themselves up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 College is certainly not a slam dunk but going to a better school and getting better grades, taking advantage of co-op and internship programs that the better schools offer plus potentially being recruited by top companies that interview at the betters schools can make a huge difference. But that's the thing. That's not what is sold to these kids. The kids are told these steps. 1. Get into college 2. Attend the best college you get accepted into, no matter the price. 3. ?????/Follow your dreams 4. Profit, with a wonderful life. It's ridiculous. As to your point about the better schools, it's not that simple. Maybe a handful of the kids at the top of their class at Harvard get better opportunities than some state school. The rest of them? Just more debt. Why spend an extra 90 grand if you need to be one of the best to get anything of value anyway? Many of these kids take all these business classes, and have no idea how to apply for jobs. What the difference is between looking keen and harassing a potential employer. The best students can get away with that, but not everyone is the best. Besides, how many students are really "recruited" versus "used for cheap labor as an intern, then discarded?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 He doesn't control it, but I do recall the sword of damocles hanging over Bernanke in the reconfirmation process. And why do you call part two a bailout. Isn't it referred to as a stimulus in your circles? How has that grand Keynesian experience worked out? man, is economic literacy in decline...Keynesian stimulus comes from the fiscal side. Any real Keynesian will tell you monetary policy is impotent in recessions. Where do you guys get this crap? Don't conflate your want to criticize Obama with criticizing economic theory. You're acting like a political hack now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 But that's the thing. That's not what is sold to these kids. The kids are told these steps. 1. Get into college 2. Attend the best college you get accepted into, no matter the price. 3. ?????/Follow your dreams 4. Profit, with a wonderful life. It's ridiculous. As to your point about the better schools, it's not that simple. Maybe a handful of the kids at the top of their class at Harvard get better opportunities than some state school. The rest of them? Just more debt. Why spend an extra 90 grand if you need to be one of the best to get anything of value anyway? Many of these kids take all these business classes, and have no idea how to apply for jobs. What the difference is between looking keen and harassing a potential employer. The best students can get away with that, but not everyone is the best. Besides, how many students are really "recruited" versus "used for cheap labor as an intern, then discarded?" I'm not talking about the Harvard's of the world. Good solid schools in this area for example Public Universities of Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, Indiana, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Miami of Ohio or private schools like Dayton, Butler and others graduating lots of kids who are getting good jobs. Our subdivision is full of kids getting jobs and many $50K - $60K+ right out of school. My son is at one of these schools now, had 8 interviews for co-op jobs last month (all paid $15-$20 an hour) and is expecting his 4th co-op offer from those 8 interviews before the end of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 the speaker at my civic club meeting this morning was a professor starting a new physical therapy, occupational therapy, physician assistant program at a local liberal arts college. in addition, the school is in the process of purchasing an optometry program in an adjacent community. these aren't pie in the sky, esoteric academic pursuits. these are meat and potatoes, your community needs you, programs. and they are exactly what colleges shouild be doing. the PT program isn't yet accredited (in process) and has a full class committed for opening day plus 10 on the waiting list. but it's expensive! i asked about the use of cadavers since when i trained the PT student shared cadavers with the med students. they're going to have 6 at a cost of about $5k each to obtain, maintain, cremate and transport. so there's one students tuition before any othger costs are factored in. but it's the right thing to do and i think if you look carefully you'll see 1 school doing stuff like this for every one building a steakhouse or taj mahal dorm. hopefully soon, it will be the vast majority doing things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) the speaker at my civic club meeting this morning was a professor starting a new physical therapy, occupational therapy, physician assistant program at a local liberal arts college. in addition, the school is in the process of purchasing an optometry program in an adjacent community. these aren't pie in the sky, esoteric academic pursuits. these are meat and potatoes, your community needs you, programs. and they are exactly what colleges shouild be doing. the PT program isn't yet accredited (in process) and has a full class committed for opening day plus 10 on the waiting list. but it's expensive! i asked about the use of cadavers since when i trained the PT student shared cadavers with the med students. they're going to have 6 at a cost of about $5k each to obtain, maintain, cremate and transport. so there's one students tuition before any othger costs are factored in. but it's the right thing to do and i think if you look carefully you'll see 1 school doing stuff like this for every one building a steakhouse or taj mahal dorm. hopefully soon, it will be the vast majority doing things like this. That's your theory for why tuition has been skyrocketing over the last 2 decades? Edited November 5, 2014 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 That's your theory for why tuition has been skyrocketing over the last 2 decades? no. perhaps if you read what else i had to say. tuition is skyrocketing for many reasons including wasteful and exhorbitant spending on stuff that doesn't advance the goals of those whose job it is tho think about higher education. but we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water as many of the higher education haters here would propose. that post was an example of the tack colleges can take to accomplish whats needed in a cost effective way. it is also meant to point out that even the appropriate path may at times be expensive. not necessarily wasteful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 no. perhaps if you read what else i had to say. tuition is skyrocketing for many reasons including wasteful and exhorbitant spending on stuff that doesn't advance the goals of those whose job it is tho think about higher education. I'm guessing that your source for that little statement is your own ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I'm guessing that your source for that little statement is your own ass? wasteful and exorbitant spending in higher education. pretty generic. you choose to quibble? pray tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 wasteful and exorbitant spending in higher education. pretty generic. you choose to quibble? pray tell. Wasteful and exorbitant spending in higher education that doesn't advance the goals of those whose job it is to think about higher education. If you're going to quote yourself, don't !@#$ing misquote yourself, you idiot. And that's three unsupported conjectures and one dumbass qualification you made in one sentence: higher education spending is wasteful, higher education spending is exorbitant, and higher education spending doesn't advance the goals of people whose job it is to think about higher education (dumbass qualification of unsupported conjecture italicized). There's no way you can support those conjectures. You pulled them out of your ass. Those are nothing but opinions, and bad ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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