GG Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 It just wasn't good planning in case of disaster striking, which it did. This is usually what separates well run organizations from the also-rans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 This is usually what separates well run organizations from the also-rans. Very true and good point. They realized their mistake, and went out and got not one, but two guys to fix the problem. But it surely was a mistake and a problem last year. Mostly because Marrone and Hackett were spending the first year on the job. I heard them talk a little bit about it before. I assume their reasoning was that we worked together for three years in Syracuse. We did it with Nassib. We are in total agreement on how we want these guys (the QBs) taught, their footwork, going through progressions, etc. If we bring in a third guy who teaches these things differently, or has some different philosophies, it's going to hurt as much as it can help. It backfired badly when the disaster scenario struck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Wished I would have known Whaley was gonna be there.....I would have drove up to have a beer with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Very true and good point. They realized their mistake, and went out and got not one, but two guys to fix the problem. But it surely was a mistake and a problem last year. Mostly because Marrone and Hackett were spending the first year on the job. I heard them talk a little bit about it before. I assume their reasoning was that we worked together for three years in Syracuse. We did it with Nassib. We are in total agreement on how we want these guys (the QBs) taught, their footwork, going through progressions, etc. If we bring in a third guy who teaches these things differently, or has some different philosophies, it's going to hurt as much as it can help. It backfired badly when the disaster scenario struck. it makes sense in a best case situation, but rarely do things run like that. when you have kolb and 2 rookies - theres a) a lot of work to be done, and b) potential for having to dedicate extra time to the group if kolb is hurt or a rookie struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Very true and good point. They realized their mistake, and went out and got not one, but two guys to fix the problem. But it surely was a mistake and a problem last year. Mostly because Marrone and Hackett were spending the first year on the job. I heard them talk a little bit about it before. I assume their reasoning was that we worked together for three years in Syracuse. We did it with Nassib. We are in total agreement on how we want these guys (the QBs) taught, their footwork, going through progressions, etc. If we bring in a third guy who teaches these things differently, or has some different philosophies, it's going to hurt as much as it can help. It backfired badly when the disaster scenario struck. Fair enough. I'm glad they did something about it. Many coaching staffs are unwilling to chagne their ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Thanks for letting us know about the Whaley session. I am very surprised he was that open with fans. Liked what he had to say about P. Brown, EJ and A. Williams. He seems like a man who can build a team and is very tuned in to college players and their coaches. Might be wishing he had a couple more draft picks next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Thanks for letting us know about the Whaley session. I am very surprised he was that open with fans. Liked what he had to say about P. Brown, EJ and A. Williams. He seems like a man who can build a team and is very tuned in to college players and their coaches. Might be wishing he had a couple more draft picks next year. I think he's pretty satisfied with having Sammy on his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan in MD Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Sorry to break this to you but he still really likes EJ. Did EJ's accuracy issues come up? I assume that he either thinks they are overblown or that they are a function of improving the mental aspect of EJ's game, but pure accuracy issues are tough to correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 It's not odd when you factor in that it's an off-week, that part of the job is an ambassadorship of sorts, and that it's quite obvious that he's doing his job fairly well. and watching football as well. Which is what he would be doing on a bye week Sunday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I thought the bit about Spikes was pretty telling. I have always maintained that I didnt think we would let Spikes get away..... It sounds to me like the only way Spikes stays is if he loves it hear and is willing to take a lesser contract. Brown with Kiko and Bradham along side him makes for a great LB core.....then you worry about depth behind them but that is for another post. Did EJ's accuracy issues come up? I assume that he either thinks they are overblown or that they are a function of improving the mental aspect of EJ's game, but pure accuracy issues are tough to correct. I still maintain that they still might think EJ Manuel is the future and was rushed onto the field too quickly....that really might be what they are thinking. He should have been sitting behind a vet from day one....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Per Rotoworld: 2014 FA Offensive Guards 1. Geoff Schwartz (Signed four-year, $16.8M deal with NYG) 2. Travelle Wharton 3. Chad Rinehart (Re-signed two-year, $6M deal with SD) 4. Willie Colon (Re-signed one-year, $2M deal with NYJ) 5. Jon Asamoah (Signed five-year, $22.5M deal with ATL) 6. Zane Beadles (Signed five-year, $30M deal with JAX) 7. Brian Waters 8. Uche Nwaneri 9. Davin Joseph 10. Shelley Smith (Signed two-year, $5.5M deal with MIA) 11. Richie Incognito 12. Daryn Colledge 13. Mike Johnson (Re-signed one-year, $675K deal with ATL) 14. Shawn Lauvao (Signed four-year, $17M deal with WAS) 15. Wade Smith 16. Charlie Johnson (Re-signed two-year, $2.5M deal with MIN) 17. Mike Pollak (Re-signed three-year, $5M deal with CIN) 18. Harvey Dahl 19. John Jerry (Signed one-year, $770K deal with NYG) 20. Jamon Meredith (Re-signed two-year, $3M deal with TB) 21. Chris Williams (Signed four-year, $13.4M deal with BUF) 22. Mike Brisiel 23. Garrett Reynolds 24. Leroy Harris 25. Kevin Boothe (Signed two-year, $2.63M deal with OAK) 26. Gabe Carimi (Signed one-year, $850K deal with ATL) Impressive. Now tell me which ones are better than what we have? C'mon Promo. You said "Well he did sign a free agent guard who promptly injured his back, and he drafted three O-linemen, two of which aren't ready to play. Was there more he could have done? Signed Incognito, a guy who said he hated playing in Buffalo the last time he was here?". You know very well there are a long list of FA guards. It's all over the internet. It may be a "hope" and "guess" that one of them might be better than Pears, a servicable RT, but it's equally a "hope" and "guess" on your part that none of them are. Williams and Legursky, as others have pointed out, were way down the list in grades. Yes, there is more Whaley could have done - bring in some of the FA and try to claim some waivers for an e v a l. Yes, they are probably looking - as you acknowledge-but they could be bringing in and evaluating some guys here. It's highly disingenuous of you to cast "sign Incognito" as the only other option. I only cited Incognito because that is by far the #1 option offered by fans here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 it makes sense in a best case situation, but rarely do things run like that. when you have kolb and 2 rookies - theres a) a lot of work to be done, and b) potential for having to dedicate extra time to the group if kolb is hurt or a rookie struggles. Exactly, a disaster is when you have something completely unexpected happen, with less than 5% probability. But when you have a rookie coaching staff overseeing a known developmental draft pick, a nominal veteran QB with serious concussion issues, and when you cut your other veteran QB in July, to say what happened in 2013 is a disaster scenario is being too generous. The odds of that disaster occurring were about 50/50, which wouldn't qualify it as a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 I thought the bit about Spikes was pretty telling. I have always maintained that I didnt think we would let Spikes get away..... It sounds to me like the only way Spikes stays is if he loves it hear and is willing to take a lesser contract. Brown with Kiko and Bradham along side him makes for a great LB core.....then you worry about depth behind them but that is for another post. I still maintain that they still might think EJ Manuel is the future and was rushed onto the field too quickly....that really might be what they are thinking. He should have been sitting behind a vet from day one....... The Spikes thing was a lot more of what Spikes will ask for versus whether they want him. He sounded like he would love to have Spikes back, but that Spikes wanted to play three downs, and was likely to ask for a lot of money, which will have to be weighed against paying Dareus and Hughes, plus what to do with Brown, who they love, when Kiko and Bradham are there. I'm sure he would love Spikes back. They brought in Kolb to be the vet to EJ but he got hurt. The problem with that was that it was entirely predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Impressive. Now tell me which ones are better than what we have? I only cited Incognito because that is by far the #1 option offered by fans here. That's easy - every one of those guys is better than what we have, except the ones who are retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 Exactly, a disaster is when you have something completely unexpected happen, with less than 5% probability. But when you have a rookie coaching staff overseeing a known developmental draft pick, a nominal veteran QB with serious concussion issues, and when you cut your other veteran QB in July, to say what happened in 2013 is a disaster scenario is being too generous. The odds of that disaster occurring were about 50/50, which wouldn't qualify it as a disaster. I agree with most of that. But the disaster was that Kolb got hurt, EJ got hurt three times, then Thad got hurt, then Hackett had to prepare an undrafted RFA to play in a regular season game. That is what Whaley was referring to I think. That is not at all a 50-50 chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The Spikes thing was a lot more of what Spikes will ask for versus whether they want him. He sounded like he would love to have Spikes back, but that Spikes wanted to play three downs, and was likely to ask for a lot of money, which will have to be weighed against paying Dareus and Hughes, plus what to do with Brown, who they love, when Kiko and Bradham are there. I'm sure he would love Spikes back. They brought in Kolb to be the vet to EJ but he got hurt. The problem with that was that it was entirely predictable. I think if its a choice between keeping Spikes or Hughes (I know its not that simple) they have to go with Hughes...... We need to try to keep this defense together at all costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I only cited Incognito because that is by far the #1 option offered by fans here. I know you get your kicks for slamming fans' opinions without offering your own analysis. But this organization is not being judged by how they perform relative to fans whims. They are judged relative to how good NFL programs are run. So while you can continue to troll out the Incognito straw man, the reality is that on the football field, the Bills OL play has regressed a ton, despite still having 4/5 of the line on the roster that looked sort of decent during Gailey's tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) They brought in Kolb to be the vet to EJ but he got hurt. The problem with that was that it was entirely predictable. But did they really learn from their (admitted) mistake? The very next offseason, they brought in Chris Williams to be the solution at LG. He had a history of back issues, and predictably is now shelved with back issues. They also failed to draft a QB and lucked out when Orton was sitting there a week or two before the season. These guys need to learn how to spread out their bets... Edited November 3, 2014 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Thanks for letting us know about the Whaley session. I am very surprised he was that open with fans. Liked what he had to say about P. Brown, EJ and A. Williams. He seems like a man who can build a team and is very tuned in to college players and their coaches. Might be wishing he had a couple more draft picks next year. He will have 6-8 draft picks. 8 is most likely, looking at production of SJ and Bryce thus far. Considering the low number of holes on the team and relative youth, plus FA (with Pegs) I think that should work. http://blogs.buffalo...the-2015-draft/ Edited November 3, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I agree with most of that. But the disaster was that Kolb got hurt, EJ got hurt three times, then Thad got hurt, then Hackett had to prepare an undrafted RFA to play in a regular season game. That is what Whaley was referring to I think. That is not at all a 50-50 chance. What I really want to know is if the things with Manuel are really correctable with time......some say yes some say no. If its yes....then Orton's future replacement is on the roster If its not.....then we have a starter for the next couple of years....but need to start thinking past that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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