A look at EJ's past month

[CSBill]

I'm of the opinion that you really can teach accuracy. Having coached baseball and softball for most of my adult life, I rarely see a college athlete who is able to make drastic improvements (some yes, but huge improvements = no). It is kind of a sixth sense thing, and as much as like EJ, I just don't see him getting that much better.

 

Yes, there are mechanical issues that can be fixed, and they will help; but really, after fours years at top Division 1 school, two in the NFL, do we really think he has major mechanical flaws that have not been addressed? Maybe a tweak here or there, but as any experienced coach will tell you, with elite athletes, most of those are just mental things trying to help them build confidence. Which leads to this observation . . .

 

The one exception I will say to what I write above, is if the accuracy problem comes from lack of confidence or hesitation—then it is a mental issue—which, with success can be over come.

 

For him, I do hope that he can work through this.

[JohnC]

I'm of the opinion that you really can teach accuracy. Having coached baseball and softball for most of my adult life, I rarely see a college athlete who is able to make drastic improvements (some yes, but huge improvements = no). It is kind of a sixth sense thing, and as much as like EJ, I just don't see him getting that much better.

 

Yes, there are mechanical issues that can be fixed, and they will help; but really, after fours years at top Division 1 school, two in the NFL, do we really think he has major mechanical flaws that have not been addressed? Maybe a tweak here or there, but as any experienced coach will tell you, with elite athletes, most of those are just mental things trying to help them build confidence. Which leads to this observation . . .

 

The one exception I will say to what I write above, is if the accuracy problem comes from lack of confidence or hesitation—then it is a mental issue—which, with success can be over come.

 

For him, I do hope that he can work through this.

 

You clearly laid out the defining issue relating to EJ: accuracy. For the most part you either have it or you don't. When you watch a qb who is impeccably accurate you notice a naturalness and instictiveness in motion compared to the more mechanical type thrower who struggles with consistency with one's fundamentals.

 

In baseball, regardless how strong an arm you have, if you don't have good control you won't succeed in the majors. Pitchers can over-power batters in the minors but when you play at the highest level not having mastery of your pitches is a standard recipe for failure. There are only a couple of ptichers that I can think of who were flamethrowers without control who belatedly mastered their ptiches and accurately located their pitches. Randy Johnson and Sandy Koufax both belatedly learned how to pitch compared to simply throw hard. But overall there are few examples of these types of late bloomers.with respect to the accuracy issue.

 

The best thing that happened to EJ (even though he might not realize it) is that he was replaced by Orton, a veteran qb,,It allowed him as a backup to relax and work on his fundamentals. Will time and added work help him to become a more accomplished passer? Only time will tell. Regardless that he was drafted in the first round the reality was that he was a developmental qb prospect. The rushing out of necessity to get him on the field probably didn't do much to help him with his game. Now he is in the role that he should have been when he joined the team, and that is the best thing for his long-term prospects.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

re relearning

 

It can happen.....

 

 

Peyton Manning Had To Relearn How To Throw A Football In 2011, And He Says It Made Him Even Better

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/peyton-manning-fundamentals-2014-10#ixzz3HuxQXP2L

 

please don't go off saying that I am comparing EJ to PM

[Bangarang]

Reads like a fluff piece. Wouldn't be surprised if Chris Brown tried to spin it that a new and improved EJ makes up for not having a 1st round pick.

 

I would feel better if his problems were physical rather than mental.

 

This kid worked with a private QB coach all summer to work on his fundamentals. He also watched tape of himself and other good QB's to try and improve his game. Even with all of that he still looked no more polished than the day he made his first start.

 

EJ always says the right things but I'll believe this when I see it. I'm not going to blindly assume or believe that he's improved drastically in 4 weeks from watching Orton or spending an extra 30 minutes after practice throwing to a practice squad WR.

[Alphadawg7]

 

 

An extra 30 minutes on top of what is already a very demanding and time intensive career. I would not be surprised that each football player spends 70-80 hours a week before any "extra" time. The discipline and demand of staying in the shape most of these players are in requires a lot of time each week before any football related activity.

 

It is an extraordinary amount of talent, time and proper coaching needed to be in a position of success for this league. This extra 30 minutes they were talking about is strictly an extra 30 minutes with his quarterbacks coach. This does not speak to his work ethic or time spent outside of that 30 minute period with his coach.

 

One thing Kevin Durant said that I like and in my opinion relates to EJ Manuel is "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." Everything we've heard about EJ leads me to believe he will do much better a second time around. I believe he was trying to protect the ball and didn't trust himself enough. He has the talent and he works hard. As a Bills fan I can't do anything but root for this young man and hope he succeeds here.

 

Why would I hope for anything less? I don't see the sense in that as a Bills fan.

 

This

[Mr. WEO]

re relearning

 

It can happen.....

 

 

Peyton Manning Had To Relearn How To Throw A Football In 2011, And He Says It Made Him Even Better

 

Read more: http://www.businessi...0#ixzz3HuxQXP2L

 

 

please don't go off saying that I am comparing EJ to PM

 

 

Well, Manning prior to his injury was a 1st ballot HOF QB capable of record setting passing. In other words, he was Peyton Manning before and after the injury, despite having to "re-learn how to throw". He quickly got back to being P Manning.

 

Manuel isn't "re-learning" how to get back to HOF form--or even relearning how to play NFL football. He's learning the basic fundamentals he didn't have in his previous career.

 

The comparison isn't very convincing.

[K-9]

Hard not to root for this kid. I went back through some of the early games in the season and you see EJ hesitating. His reads are fine when you watch the tape, but he was late. If he can learn to trust himself and his talent he could be very good.

 

Pulling him was a gutsy move but it has proven to be the right one thus far

 

And we see him hesitating because he's pressing, trying not to phuck up, not playing with confidence. And as the article says, it's that hesitation that ruins the timing which is what Hackett's passing game is built around (and the reason SJ is no longer with us). And no timing means no accuracy. Add his inconsistent footwork and it's a recipe for the cycle to keep repeating.

 

That said, I'm less worried about him making the right reads and not trusting what he sees vs. making incorrect reads and throwing ill advised passes because he's seeing the wrong things. The best thing for him right now is to observe a good veteran QB on and off the field and to continue to work on his lower body mechanics. He's got the tools otherwise.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited November 2, 2014 by K-9

[Maury Ballstein]

!@#$ me. Seems OBD won't have the integrity or the balls to flat out say they made a mistake. So what...4 more years of hoping this clown becomes a QB? SOSDD at OBD. I pray the new Owner cleans house from top to bottom

 

These %{#}*] clowns won't even keep Jordan Palmer around long enough for the season to start

 

%}^]* amateurs

[ganesh]

I honestly don't think Manuel can learn all that much sitting on the sidelines. He's NOT a rookie, despite what some people keep trying to imply. He knows the playbook. Everything he needs to learn at this point comes from game action, and you can't simulate it in 30 minute sessions 2 hours before each game. I think he'll get another shot down the road, either with Buffalo or somewhere else. I wish him luck because that will probably be his last chance to make it in the NFL.

Or he could be a 15 year career backup (His arm strength will also get him a contract) like several other QBs.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Well, Manning prior to his injury was a 1st ballot HOF QB capable of record setting passing. In other words, he was Peyton Manning before and after the injury, despite having to "re-learn how to throw". He quickly got back to being P Manning.

 

Manuel isn't "re-learning" how to get back to HOF form--or even relearning how to play NFL football. He's learning the basic fundamentals he didn't have in his previous career.

 

The comparison isn't very convincing.

it was food for thought WEO. nothing more

[C.Biscuit97]

EJ needs more of that F you attitude. He should have started by punching Tim Graham in the face. He is too nice and needs to stop overthinking everything.

 

I do love how twisted everyone's perspective is to football players. How many of us were awesome right away at our jobs? But if a 24 year old struggles to be a NFL QB right away, BUST!!!!

[Dopey]

This may sound prickish, but 30 minutes? You get to play the game so many of us would kill to get the chance and you devote an extra two hours a week? I work 70-80 hours a week, and I don't make anywhere near what they do. I wonder how much time Peyton Manning puts in each week? When you really want something (raise/promotion), you put everything you can into it. You don't just do the minimum plus one.

If you have to lead off with "This may sound prickish, but "...

[seq004]

He worked on his accuracy all off season and it didn't help but at least he wants to be prepared.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I honestly don't think Manuel can learn all that much sitting on the sidelines. He's NOT a rookie, despite what some people keep trying to imply. He knows the playbook. Everything he needs to learn at this point comes from game action, and you can't simulate it in 30 minute sessions 2 hours before each game. I think he'll get another shot down the road, either with Buffalo or somewhere else. I wish him luck because that will probably be his last chance to make it in the NFL.

 

There is actually a fair list of QB who kinda looked like cr*p their first years in the league, got benched, later got another shot with their team or another team, and made good. Alex Smith would be one currently active example. Kyle Orton for another. I've never heard Smith say anything positive about the benching experience (maybe he has, I just haven't heard) but Orton has been quoted as saying he didn't like it at the time, but now he can see it helped him.

 

I think there are things Manuel can learn from watching Orton go about his business with the same playbook and OL. The bit in the Whaley thread about how Orton yells at the receivers in practice and demands that they work and get open in practice - that you can't always be "Mr Nice Guy". I always thought Brady's receivers are afraid to come back to the huddle if they drop one, and Manning is likely the same. Being able to see Orton take an extra few seconds and watch something develop when he sees film.

 

The Bills have a vested interest in helping EJ develop and stay sharp this season of course, because Orton is only one missed block away from the IR

Edited November 3, 2014 by Hopeful

[ProcessAccepted]

This may sound prickish, but 30 minutes? You get to play the game so many of us would kill to get the chance and you devote an extra two hours a week? I work 70-80 hours a week, and I don't make anywhere near what they do. I wonder how much time Peyton Manning puts in each week? When you really want something (raise/promotion), you put everything you can into it. You don't just do the minimum plus one.

 

There is also the possibility that no one wants to do extra work with him. He needs people to throw the ball to etc. I think the guys are more concerned with their own growth with Orton than trying to salvage EJ. Can't blame them to be honest.

[Mr. WEO]

EJ needs more of that F you attitude. He should have started by punching Tim Graham in the face. He is too nice and needs to stop overthinking everything.

 

I do love how twisted everyone's perspective is to football players. How many of us were awesome right away at our jobs? But if a 24 year old struggles to be a NFL QB right away, BUST!!!!

 

Which top QB has "that F you attitude"?

 

And it's becoming more clear that he wasn't necessarily "overthinking" anything....

[Captain Hindsight]

Which top QB has "that F you attitude"?

 

And it's becoming more clear that he wasn't necessarily "overthinking" anything....

Peyton Manning and Brady, Rivers, are all very fiery on the field. I can imagine them being the same way in practice.

[bobobonators]

I honestly don't think Manuel can learn all that much sitting on the sidelines. He's NOT a rookie, despite what some people keep trying to imply. He knows the playbook. Everything he needs to learn at this point comes from game action, and you can't simulate it in 30 minute sessions 2 hours before each game. I think he'll get another shot down the road, either with Buffalo or somewhere else. I wish him luck because that will probably be his last chance to make it in the NFL.

 

I couldnt disagree more.

[1billsfan]

Peyton Manning and Brady, Rivers, are all very fiery on the field. I can imagine them being the same way in practice.

 

I don't recall Eli Manning or Russell Wilson ever having this very fiery, in your face style of leadership. Yet they've both won Superbowls.

 

EJ Manuel needs confidence in himself that will only come with on the field, confidence bolstering performances. Only then will he be able to begin to command respect in the huddle. This respect can happen without the yelling or mean looks which is clearly not EJ's style at all. What he can learn from Orton's style is that while there's a time for being loose, once practice starts there's a stone cold seriousness in the task at hand when you're the starting QB and the captain of the ship.

[buffaloboyinATL]

I honestly don't think Manuel can learn all that much sitting on the sidelines. He's NOT a rookie, despite what some people keep trying to imply. He knows the playbook. Everything he needs to learn at this point comes from game action, and you can't simulate it in 30 minute sessions 2 hours before each game. I think he'll get another shot down the road, either with Buffalo or somewhere else. I wish him luck because that will probably be his last chance to make it in the NFL.

I disagree. I think many QB's, including Steve Young and Aaron Rogers, benefitted greatly by sitting on the sidelines, learning to become a pro. This is the way QB's used to be developed before the investment became so large that Head Coaches and GM's careers were tied to a young QB's success. Although game time development is important, so is learning how to control a huddle, locker room, etc. I believe a young player can learn to make better decisions by watching a veteran up close.

 

I am not saying his future success is a guarantee, but I believe he still has plenty of time to develop. Hopefully he will be better suited to succeed the next time his number is called.