What about Eric Wood to guard?

[3rdand12]

Really?

 

So the Bills have had poor G play, and all of the sudden I'm seeing these posts saying that Woods and Glenn suck. I know I shouldn't be, but I'm shocked people can't tell the positions apart. Lets not worry about Richardson and Pears, let's move Glenn and and Woods!

 

If the G's are consistently getting blown up, the guys next to them will have harder jobs and look worse by proximity. Woods and Glenn have been the only consistent guys on the line.

 

Also, Urbik was near flawless in the Jets game. Woods got blown up on one running play, by one of the best dlineman in the league. CUT HIM!!!!

last week was an anomaly for the O line.

 

E Woods statistically is playing poorly. Glenn has whiffed a couple too.

Methinks with Urbik in line and Orton calling some protections consistently the O line will look a bit better.

Any think Richardson might be moved to RG before the end of the year ?

anyone ?

Withholding judgement on his regression till end of year. But he does need to improve

[playman]

Rarely have a 1 on 1 matchup. It's physically the easiest position on offense and mentally the 2nd hardest.

 

physically, and mentally, the easiest position is G. because they either help or get help by the C. plus they never snap the ball nor make a call.

 

and some of the more successful teams absolutely demand their C handle the nose by himself.............

Edited October 31, 2014 by playman

[thewildrabbit]

Fear, I respect your passion for the oline but moving a good LT to LG would be awful. First of all, are we sure Hairston is good at all? He gets hurt every year.

 

And LT is a million times more important (and harder to find) than G (for whatever reason we suck at finding them). We have 2 good players on our oline, Glenn & Wood. Moving them around would just create more problems IMO.

 

Get better guard play and play calling and everything improves. Defenses are teeing off on our predictable offense.

Stop and think for a min, these coaches aren't going to suddenly stop calling run plays up the middle, and Pears is not going to improve that I can see. Things might get worse as the Bills play another tough defense in the #4 sacking team KC Chiefs.

 

Don't let this move scare you, as the only real drawback is we don't know the story on Hairston. While I agree that LT is one of the most important positions on the line. I do recall Hairston playing that position rather effectively back in 2011 & 2012. Honestly it really wouldn't be that much of a downgrade if Hairston is 100%.

 

Moving Glenn to LG would be a tremendous upgrade to that position and would not only help with the pass blocking, it would also help with the constant up the middle run game. It would also allow Orton to step up in the pocket. The quickest way to the QB is right up the middle, and Glenn-Wood-Urbik would really solidify that middle. The best thing that can happen is finding a way to get Pears off the field, JMO

[The Frankish Reich]

Well, this is not totally true, they did try and they thought they had. Consider these things . . .

1. First, they have the presupposition or assumption that its easy to make a tackle a guard. That has proven to not be the case.
    
   
2. With this in mind, they drafted two tackles in the last draft, and for good measure, a former All-American guard.
    
   
3. Moreover, the coaching staff (Marrone) declared that they like the young guy back-ups, mostly free agent signings and/or practice squad raids, they had coming back from last year. The implication was, at least one of them was ready to compete for a starting job.
    
   
4. And, Chris Hairston, whom had been a starter at two tackle positions, was also returning.
    
   
5. So, if you are viewing it all through the misguided perspective of the bad assumption stated in first point, then indeed, we have the talent, its just a matter of figuring out who goes where. Right?
   

So, all that leads to three conclusions:

1. The young "talent" that was leftover from last season, really wasn't that talented.
    
   
2. It must not be that easy to move tackles to the guard position. Consider three pieces of evidence: 1) how bad Pars has been, 2) but neither Kojo, Hairston, or 3) anyone eles has been able to replace him.
    
   
3. Or. maybe it is easy, but the before mentioned players / tackles (and leftovers) just aren't that good, whether playing tackle or guard; in which case, now we have a "personnel evaluation" problem.
    
   
4. Or, maybe our line coaching, including the head coach whose area of expertise is line coaching, is just not very good.
   

My conclusion, all of the above (1, 2, 3, & 4).

 

Have we tried? Yes!

 

But, when you start with bad assumptions in your experimentations, you usually never recover from that. Or, to quote a well placed NFL coach whom we are all familiar with: "don't confuse effort with results, obviously."

Lots of tackles move inside when their teams find better tackles. Broncos moved Orlando Franklin from RT to LG not because Franklin was terrible as a tackle, but because their best overall OL option when Zane Beadles left was to play Chris Clark (LT when Ryan Clady was hurt last year) at RT and Franklin at LG. And the line got better. But there's no way to hide a crappy lineman like Pears anywhere but on the bench.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Cowardly or did the NFL secretly ban Incognito? Joe B. seems to think so. Plenty of teams could use him but he hasn't signed yet, has he?

 

 

Does seem odd, but I don't think they could secretly ban him, and we not know about it.

 

No, it wasn't. It was built thinking that there were capable players on the roster at OG.

 

Nobody, anywhere, ever, under any circumstances, has said that guards weren't important. What many folks have said is that they can be found in the middle rounds of the draft and for relative bargains in free agency. Throughout the league, this has shown to be true.

 

When they let Levitre go they said it was not a highly valued position.

 

You are right, and its been clearly evident under Buddy Nix, and now Doug Whaley who is still listening to that old fool. Even as lame as Jauron was he still drafted a center with a #1 pick, and an OG with a #2 in an effort to bolster the middle of that line. Both Nix & Whaley think they can get by with band-aid players at OG.

 

Why some think that its alright to spend an early first round pick on a D tackle, and yet don't think its important enough to spend an early pick to protect the most important player on the team is beyond me. Look at the crap players this regime tried to develop a rookie QB behind, and they still aren't breaking a sweat worrying about protecting Orton or they would have made some moves to make upgrades. I dunno, perhaps this is the lame brained analytic dept saying they can get by with sub par players at certain positions.

 

Lets hope this moronic philosophy changes with that new adviser to new ownership.

 

Amen to that.

 

Lets face it the Bills let Levitre go with no real replacement.

 

Did the same with London Fletcher, & Lee Evans.

 

Buffalo has a long history for labeling players as overpaid but they can't find anyone better or cheaper

 

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

[thebandit27]

 

When they let Levitre go they said it was not a highly valued position.

 

 

"Not highly valued" doesn't mean "not important"; it means "not valuable enough to spend $8M/year on an average player at that position", as you might do at, say, QB or LT (see Branden Albert and Joe Flacco).

[Agent 91]

 

 

ever tried? i´d think that blocking someone with your hand between your legs is slightly more difficult than just firing out with both of them.

 

Na he is right. Unless its a 34 which makes it a little harder. A center is to protect the a gap and then help out guards. Tackles are usually on an island and guards are USUALLY head up on the Dr while having to pas and react to stunts. Center by virtue is the easiest physically. But mentally it is hardest

[GunnerBill]

Cowardly or did the NFL secretly ban Incognito? Joe B. seems to think so. Plenty of teams could use him but he hasn't signed yet, has he?

 

Nobody has signed him because he is a liability of a character. This is very simple and why it has to keep being repeated I have no idea.

[Webster Guy]

Wood faced off against three of the league's truly elite interior D-linemen in the past 4 weeks: Suh (who is unbelievable this year), Richardson (also unbelievable this year despite the team he plays on) and Wilfork (still very good). Before that, he had to occasionally face off against JJ Watt and prepare for him every play. He's not playing well right now, but some of that is simply the competition. He looked fine against Chicago and San Diego.

good point. richardson suh are top 2 in the league.

[Saxum]

Don't let this move scare you, as the only real drawback is we don't know the story on Hairston. While I agree that LT is one of the most important positions on the line. I do recall Hairston playing that position rather effectively back in 2011 & 2012. Honestly it really wouldn't be that much of a downgrade if Hairston is 100%.

Hairston was a good swing tackle but when he played full games he get exposed; he is best used as swing tackle, extra tackle and for extra blocking in goal line situations.

[thebandit27]

Hairston was a good swing tackle but when he played full games he get exposed; he is best used as swing tackle, extra tackle and for extra blocking in goal line situations.

 

The concept of taking the LT and moving him to LG to strengthen a less critical position at the possible cost of weakening a more critical position doesn't make sense to me. The only team I remember doing something like this was Cincinnati last year, who moved Andrew Whitworth to LG and brought in Anthony Collins at LT, a move they only made after they lost both Clint Boling and Kevin Zeitler to injury. At that, Collins had started 18 games at OT for them over 5 years, and Whitworth had started 26 games at LG over two seasons, so they weren't taking a huge chance.

 

Buffalo's situation is not even close to the same. Glenn hasn't played guard in over 3 years, and has never done so in the NFL; Hairston hasn't played a meaningful snap in an NFL game (aside from spot duty as an extra OT) in over 2 years.

 

The only change of this nature that would make any sense, to me, would have to happen during the offseason, and would consist of moving Henderson to LT (where he played well in the preseason), Glenn to LG, and Kouandjio to RT. That, of course, would rely on Cyrus rounding into form far better than he's done this season. Even then, I think the potential for weakening two positions is greater than the potential for improving one. Much easier to identify a couple of 3rd/4th round guys that can play the position and draft them and then sign a mid-level guy like Boling IMO.

[billykaykay]

I agree with everything you say. I do think an above average QB should be able to diagnose a breakdown in protection and throw the ball away even if it only happens 1 in 4 times. Could be saving 5-10 yards. With that said, I'm not criticizing his performance. I love his ability to hang in there.

Isn't a grounding penalty the same as a sack?

[BUFFALOTONE]

Center is the easiest position physically. He strugggles eeven doing that.

 

Wrong so wrong...he is bearing thew weight of two terrible guards for 8 games. Even though Orton calls the blocking scheme it is up to the center to make last second adjustments in the middle. Plus snap the ball without fumbling.

[Manther]

Wood was average last season and has been below average this season. I originally put it down to the fact that he is not helped by the talent either side of him but the more I watch his individual play the more I see him struggle. He is getting almost no push in the run game at all and is being consistently flattened by defensive tackles allowing them to get contact on our runners at or even before the line of scrimmage. The pass protection he is fairing a little better but he is part of a line that as whole is struggling with that.

I think the Guards are making Wood worse AND his run block is average or possibly below average. The old regime scheme and coaching made Wood look better than he was too. However.....there are bigger issues than Wood at this point and probably next year too.

 

Wood was average last season and has been below average this season. I originally put it down to the fact that he is not helped by the talent either side of him but the more I watch his individual play the more I see him struggle. He is getting almost no push in the run game at all and is being consistently flattened by defensive tackles allowing them to get contact on our runners at or even before the line of scrimmage. The pass protection he is fairing a little better but he is part of a line that as whole is struggling with that.

I think the Guards are making Wood worse AND his run block is average or possibly below average. The old regime scheme and coaching made Wood look better than he was too. However.....there are bigger issues than Wood at this point and probably next year too.

[TheBillsWillRiseAgain]

I've been disappointed in Glenn and Wood this season. They've both had a couple pretty bad games, which is unlike them. I'm sure some of it has to do with who's next to them but that's not all of it. I've seen them simply fail at their jobs on some plays.

[boyst]

Pears shouldn't be on the bench. He would do no worse then Lee Smith blocking. Put him at hybrid OT/TE

[BackInDaDay]

Pears shouldn't be on the bench. He would do no worse then Lee Smith blocking. Put him at hybrid OT/TE

I wonder if he could cover Gronk?

Edited October 31, 2014 by BackInDaDay

[thewildrabbit]

Hairston was a good swing tackle but when he played full games he get exposed; he is best used as swing tackle, extra tackle and for extra blocking in goal line situations.

I disagree as he played quite a few games at both LT & RT and from what I've read he graded in the positive which is something that can't be said for the current players on this years line. He was penciled in as the starting RT before his unknown injury, so they must have thought highly of him.

 

I did say try the switch in practice against that Bills D. Also, we still don't know the situation with Hairston, and he has got to be an upgrade if 100% healthy. I suppose I keep posting on this in case someone in the know could let us know his status.

 

The entire O line isn't playing up to its past ability (coaching?), and the better players are looking almost as bad as the scrubs. I don't think most realize just how bad the OG situation is, and its disrupting the entire line IMO. LT Cordy Glenn was particularly bad against the Vikings (-2.4) pass blocking. He allowed 4 pressures, 2 sacks, one hit, one hurry. Then against the Jets center Eric Wood graded (-5.9), and whats crazy is the rookie at RT is the only player that graded with an over positive that day. The Bills need to solidify that inside asap.

 

The Bills need to take some drastic steps to improve both pass & run blocking as they head into the snowy, colder months that will require a run game that actually can get a first down

Edited October 31, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

I think the Guards are making Wood worse AND his run block is average or possibly below average. The old regime scheme and coaching made Wood look better than he was too. However.....there are bigger issues than Wood at this point and probably next year too.

 

 

I think the Guards are making Wood worse AND his run block is average or possibly below average. The old regime scheme and coaching made Wood look better than he was too. However.....there are bigger issues than Wood at this point and probably next year too.

I think your spot on. Levitre and Wood were both average run blockers and throw in Pears too. Over paying Levitre would have been a mistake, but not finding an average replacement was even a bigger one. Move Pears back out to RT and see how Henderson handles RG. With Urbik at LG and the other positions stable, I think we may be back to where we were at the end of last year. Not great, but not anywhere as putrid as we have played so far this year.

[BADOLBILZ]

Over paying Levitre would have been a mistake, but not finding an average replacement was even a bigger one.

 

Paying Levitre would not have been a mistake.

 

The Bills had cap space and really needed to get this coaching staff off to a good start and sometimes that means spending a bit more money than you'd like due to circumstance but Levitre's contract was basically a two year deal and the Bills had cap space to burn.

 

Not finding a better replacement when they didn't sign him made matters much worse but if Levitre were simply there last years Bills may well have reached the playoffs. Brown and Legursky were THAT bad, the schedule was THAT favorable and the bar to reach the playoffs was THAT low.

 

Additionally let me add a handful of observations to this thread:

 

1) Eric Wood has been declining for a couple seasons now. He is not an exceptional athlete for the position and he's had leg problems so the day when he couldn't get leverage in the run game was going to come sooner than it would for a more athletic guy. He really needs to be your 5th best blocker now because his days of being a plus player are OVER.

 

2) Meanwhile, the veteran he was traded for is still playing at a Pro Bowl and possibly All Pro level. I know it's important to be right on this board so let me point out that I predicted that would be the case here on TSW those many years ago. That trade continues to disgust.

 

3) People need to keep in mind that there was an influx of very large, very athletic DT's into the NFL in the past 5 years. DT's who could rush the passer as well as play the run used to be VERY rare. As in, if there was a guy who looked like he might be able to do that he had a chance to go #1 overall even if he hadn't peed a drop in the college game....like Big Daddy Wilkinson for instance. Now there are many of these guys and a bunch of them were on the Bills schedule so with the realization in mind that there are now so many gamechangers inside it stands to reason that a guard like Levitre had more value relative to other positions than a guard would have had even just a few years ago before these guys started turning into beasts at the DT position.

Edited November 1, 2014 by BADOLBEELZ