Who is Yuri? Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You could be paying more than you realize for what you'll be spending on parking, coffee, food, ice-time, Canisius tickets, and kitsch. http://www.investiga...s-harborcenter/ "The $57 million in tax breaks works out to about $134,000 per job – a comparatively rich subsidy, especially considering that many of those will be low-wage jobs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You could be paying more than you realize for what you'll be spending on parking, coffee, food, ice-time, Canisius tickets, and kitsch. http://www.investiga...s-harborcenter/ "The $57 million in tax breaks works out to about $134,000 per job – a comparatively rich subsidy, especially considering that many of those will be low-wage jobs." A 205 room Marriott, at $200/night at 80% occupancy rate (not unreasonable numbers - in line with the Courtyard Downtown/Canalside) generates about two million in annual tax revenue (at 8% sales tax and 8% occupancy tax). And that's a low-ball estimate. And that's the hotel alone. Why don't you come back when you know something about the development and its tax implications? And don't give me that bull **** "57 minus 2 is 55" answer you gave on the other board. That's a grossly overly-simplistic, childish, and moronic view of the tax breaks. Like I said...come back when you know something about the development and its tax implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Why don't you tell me what you know, and I'll see if I agree. So far, the scoreboard is 57 - 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Why don't you tell me what you know, and I'll see if I agree. So far, the scoreboard is 57 - 2. I know you can't do basic math. You're subtracting 2 million per year from a 57 million lump sum and thinking it's somehow a valid calculation, you idiot. Go do your homework. Come back when you have, and I'll discuss it with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 You've only offered 2 million, my lackey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You've only offered 2 million, my lackey. Read the part again where I say IN ANNUAL TAX REVENUE. Could you be a bigger moron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I know you can't do basic math. To be fair, he has been dead for over 90 years. It's amazing he can communicate at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yes, it's true that I've been dead, and that has made my math skills impaired, so why don't you spell it out for me, and please just say how many years the public will be subsidizing these private profits.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 To be fair, he has been dead for over 90 years. It's amazing he can communicate at all. Still...he does better than Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 As far as I remember... Pegula is from Scranton, PA! That's just a reminder. I hope that he keeps his coal-black hands off this movement for as long as possible. … It’s OuRTOwN, not PEGULAville … In case you missed it ^. It’s OuRTOwN, not PEGULAville … Print the T-shirts. I donate all profits to whomever. ... Have at me, gals! ... There is no way that I'll be staying up late defending this thread, but I'll keep it open. Those were some guerrilla tactics I was using last night. Now I'm gonna watch from a safe distance. Still...he does better than Biden. You ain't half bad yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 As far as I remember... Pegula is from Scranton, PA! That's just a reminder. I hope that he keeps his coal-black hands off this movement for as long as possible. … It’s OuRTOwN, not PEGULAville … In case you missed it ^. It’s OuRTOwN, not PEGULAville … Print the T-shirts. I donate all profits to whomever. ... Have at me, gals! ... There is no way that I'll be staying up late defending this thread, but I'll keep it open. Those were some guerrilla tactics I was using last night. Now I'm gonna watch from a safe distance. You ain't half bad yourself. This is a fantastic post. You really need to post over here more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 There is no way that I'll be staying up late defending this thread, but I'll keep it open. Those were some guerrilla tactics I was using last night. Now I'm gonna watch from a safe distance. Response. Thats what all that gibberish was for wasn't it Frankie ? To get a response ? So there you go...................... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Very interesting to say the least. Don't get me wrong, I think the Bills staying is great. The Sabres too... Buffalo on "the rise." This whole Canalside/Cobblestone District/Harborcentre thing... Sounds like it is all there! I do get heartburn annointing Pegula "The Savior" though. I sure hope "Pegulaville" isn't "Pottersville", a wolf in sheep's clothing. We threw the whole farm to one family and they appear to be the Bailey's. It's a wonderful life for BFLO. Let's not forget, the Sabres got burned before with their PA owners. Of course this is different, Pegula is a ton richer than the Rigas'... And on the up and up. I have trouble trusting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Love it. "The Sabres have been granted two subsidies worth $57 million to help offset the cost of the $172 million project. The larger of the two subsidies, worth $36.7 million, comes from the Erie County Industrial Development Agency. Estimated savings include: $28 million in property taxes over 10 years. $7.5 million in sales tax on construction materials and equipment. $1.2 million in mortgage recording taxes." So if it weren't built then the government would get all that money? What is laughable are the people saying the government is "spending this money". They're not spending a frigging dime. They're just not collecting. They never had the money to begin with. They're just forgoing taking their usual criminal coercive cut of the deal. The righteous indignation of the offended indeed! Oh no. It would be far better to never build anything in downtown Buffalo and let it be a festering swamp of decay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Love it. "The Sabres have been granted two subsidies worth $57 million to help offset the cost of the $172 million project. The larger of the two subsidies, worth $36.7 million, comes from the Erie County Industrial Development Agency. Estimated savings include: $28 million in property taxes over 10 years. $7.5 million in sales tax on construction materials and equipment. $1.2 million in mortgage recording taxes." So if it weren't built then the government would get all that money? What is laughable are the people saying the government is "spending this money". They're not spending a frigging dime. They're just not collecting. They never had the money to begin with. They're just forgoing taking their usual criminal coercive cut of the deal. The righteous indignation of the offended indeed! Oh no. It would be far better to never build anything in downtown Buffalo and let it be a festering swamp of decay. Who didn't love downtown B-Lo when the streets rolled up at dark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Love it. "The Sabres have been granted two subsidies worth $57 million to help offset the cost of the $172 million project. The larger of the two subsidies, worth $36.7 million, comes from the Erie County Industrial Development Agency. Estimated savings include: $28 million in property taxes over 10 years. $7.5 million in sales tax on construction materials and equipment. $1.2 million in mortgage recording taxes." So if it weren't built then the government would get all that money? What is laughable are the people saying the government is "spending this money". They're not spending a frigging dime. They're just not collecting. They never had the money to begin with. They're just forgoing taking their usual criminal coercive cut of the deal. The righteous indignation of the offended indeed! Oh no. It would be far better to never build anything in downtown Buffalo and let it be a festering swamp of decay. I get it and agree with what you are saying. I hope it works and is sustainable. What's to lose! Edited October 31, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Love it. "The Sabres have been granted two subsidies worth $57 million to help offset the cost of the $172 million project. The larger of the two subsidies, worth $36.7 million, comes from the Erie County Industrial Development Agency. Estimated savings include: $28 million in property taxes over 10 years. $7.5 million in sales tax on construction materials and equipment. $1.2 million in mortgage recording taxes." So if it weren't built then the government would get all that money? What is laughable are the people saying the government is "spending this money". They're not spending a frigging dime. They're just not collecting. They never had the money to begin with. They're just forgoing taking their usual criminal coercive cut of the deal. The righteous indignation of the offended indeed! Oh no. It would be far better to never build anything in downtown Buffalo and let it be a festering swamp of decay. The phrase that caught my attention was, "...usual criminal coercive cut". From those who pull the "how are you going to pay for it" objection everytime a program to help the poor is propsed for example, seem to think their military is free or should only be paid for by working class folks. Never mind that a business could lead to a need for more fire and police services, or roads to support their businesses. Nah, they shouldn't contribute at least that's what the far right thinks. Tax breaks are fine when thoughtfully implemented. Yet to generallly call taxes the " usual criminal coercive cut" is sadly misguided at best....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yet to generallly call taxes the " usual criminal coercive cut" is sadly misguided at best....... If the government was living within a budget and the priorities were clearly infrastructure related, you might have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 From those who pull the "how are you going to pay for it" objection everytime a program to help the poor is propsed for example, seem to think their military is free or should only be paid for by working class folks. God forbid Lackawana should have to make cuts to their naval procurement budget because El Pegual wanted to build an ice rink... Not an argument that's going to fly very well here. Generally, this board thinks the Pentagon's budget is bloated. You'd be better off arguing education, since these tax breaks may be to the detriment of the Buffalo school system (given that a large part of the deal is trading real estate tax breaks for sales tax receipts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 God forbid Lackawana should have to make cuts to their naval procurement budget because El Pegual wanted to build an ice rink... Not an argument that's going to fly very well here. Generally, this board thinks the Pentagon's budget is bloated. You'd be better off arguing education, since these tax breaks may be to the detriment of the Buffalo school system (given that a large part of the deal is trading real estate tax breaks for sales tax receipts). The Pentagon's budget is bloated, yes. We've had the lead in defense for a long time. We just need to be smart about when we take to the offense, because our borders only stretch so far. Everything else can be hostile territory, which is harder to "defend." I think we're trying to be smart, but I'm a little anxious about cyber-security. The thing about Pegula, is that he hides his intentions. That's no straight criticism, but I factor it, based upon history. He buys the Sabres, says he'll drill another gas well. Everyone thought he was joking, but he was still speculating and drilling test wells left and right, which is how he built the value, to then sell land and buy the Bills. I simply accept it. Here's my thing: In the Southern Tier of New York State, there's a point in the western hills, where the water runs North, rather than South. This area has been leased for fracking, and the water affects Buffalo, Rochester, and the Finger Lakes Region. You can say, that no health effects have been proven (not, google it), but even in Pennsylvannia, the shale is 2x deeper that in New York State. Pegula hides his intentions. The benefit of the doubt crowd can be ignored they are so far behind the curve. In all honesty, there are parts of New York, I wouldn't mind being fracked. Frack downstream PA. It's already fracked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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