Alphadawg7 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) It's why it's dumb to give up on EJ too. But we need to see this thing through on Orton before we give him a Jauron extension. He's started off hot before. I think he was like 5-0 in Denver. What separates the good NFL QBs and the average ones is consistency. Hopefully, Orton finishes strong. Yes, EJ has a ton of upside yet, silly to just write him off. One of the biggest voids for him was having a veteran presence last year, so hopefully Orton helps the kid figure this game out. As far as Orton goes, he is playing better than EJ was for sure. But he also has been wildly inconsistent and was 2 plays away from starting 0-3. I hope he keeps getting better and can figure out how to be consistent, but his level of play hasn't reached as high as his legend as reached around here. Much like Fitz, Trent, etc...people get caught up in a spark at the QB position and suddenly he's the best thing we've had since Kelly and our future. If we give him an extension during the season this FO should be fired. That already failed miserable with Juaron and Fitz. Let him play the season out and prove he can beat GOOD teams consistently and get us to the playoffs. I really hope he becomes that guy, but right now its way to early to tell what he can or will be here in Buffalo. Offense was abysmal for weeks 3-7 under him and EJ. Offense broke out on the scoreboard this past week, but overall was pretty inefficient with a LOT of 3 and outs. Without our D getting us all those turnovers, we would have had a tight game because the offense was not moving the ball consistently. All in all, I will take the 3 wins in the last 4 games, but I need to see some consistency before I start believing he is our guy for another 3 to 5 years. Edited October 29, 2014 by Alphadawg7
Alaska Darin Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Tebow played the final 3 games after that and threw for 651 yards (not sure where you got the 72ypg from). Pro-Football-Reference. Stupid trusting moron that I am, I used the Yards Per Game column. It's correct because Tebow got snaps in 9 games. My bad. The next year (2011), Orton started the first 5 games and went 1-4, throwing 8 tds and 7 picks. It wasn't like he was playing great and the Broncos just dumped him solely to try out a young qb. And you can't blame the lack of weapons around him seeing as he had decent receivers in Lloyd and Decker. Thus, I don't see how anyone could have predicted he would be having a great season 3 years later for another team. Ah, the "John Fox Year". No offense but that's not a valuable tool for evaluation. Fox didn't become offensively smart until Manning showed up and he was essentially forced to stop being a Head Coach from the 1970s who won with defense and gut runs. Dude made Marty Schott look like Don Coryell. Eric Decker? Who knew who he was before Manning showed up? I'll bet his career numbers sink like a stone now that he's gone. He was absolutely a product of that system. Brandon Lloyd? Definition of a journeyman. Had the most productive 13 games of his career playing with Orton. By a wide margin.
Rockinon Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 You had Geno Smith as your starter though. Like EJ, they didn't want to automatically crush his confidence but find out if he was their guy. I always thought Geno sucked so I am not defending it. I just don't see any GM in the league that had the situation the Jets had, then going out and getting Vick as a backup (when there was really no one out there willing to be a backup) and then signing Orton in late August for 11 million. That was his demand. There is no team that would do that. The Bills had no backup, and a QB playing poorly in preseason. They HAD to sign a vet and ultimately did the right and best thing. But I can't at all blame the Jets for not giving Orton 11 million when they already had Geno they wanted to start, and Vick at 5 m. Orton probably would have turned them down, too. i love the way Orton is playing right now. And I think he definitely does have a chance to be a playoff QB. But we shouldn't underestimate the fact that Sammy Watkins is making Orton's resurgence 100% easier. This is definitely a part of the equation. How much of it, remains to be seen. Orton might just be enjoying the hell out of having a real superstar to throw to....something he may not have ever had in his career.
McD Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Orton has been a revelation. He has been what Alex Smith was to KC last year. A smart, leader who took his lumps early in his career. He has all of the physical (and mental) tools to play the position. We are very fortunate to have him. I for one thought that he would be a stopgap until they could get someone (like Bradford) next year to play the position. If KO plays like this the 2nd half of the season I would expect him to be the QB of this team for the next 4-5 years. If you extrapolate his numbers over the course of the season you are talking a 67.4% completion percentage, 4512 yards, 36 TDs and 12 INTs with a 104 rating. That would be the highest completion %, most yards and most TDs a Bills QB has ever had in a season. Solidify the line, reestablish the run game, include the TE position and Mike Williams and then its possible.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 This is definitely a part of the equation. How much of it, remains to be seen. Orton might just be enjoying the hell out of having a real superstar to throw to....something he may not have ever had in his career. No question about it. What cannot also be underestimated is the 84 yard bomb was a perfect pass. The 61 yard TD where Sammy accelerated tremendously hit him right in stride which allows that kind of stuff to happen. The darts to Woods and Chandler were perfect passes in tight windows. His longer TD to Watkins against the Vikes was right on the money. The TD to win it, although a 2 yard pass, was a dart right on the money as Watkins was going OB. Those were all just great throws.
Alaska Darin Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 No question about it. What cannot also be underestimated is the 84 yard bomb was a perfect pass. The 61 yard TD where Sammy accelerated tremendously hit him right in stride which allows that kind of stuff to happen. The darts to Woods and Chandler were perfect passes in tight windows. His longer TD to Watkins against the Vikes was right on the money. The TD to win it, although a 2 yard pass, was a dart right on the money as Watkins was going OB. Those were all just great throws. The TD catch by Watkins against the Vikings looked easy. It wasn't. Great catch, great field awareness, great foot placement. Dude is a rookie. And a witch.
nonprophet Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I really liked the comments from EJ. He is benefitting from having a vet QB there. Last year, it was the blind leading the blind. +1 That's why Marrone compensated by hiring a dedicated QB coach last year. Oh, wait...
YoloinOhio Posted October 30, 2014 Author Posted October 30, 2014 +1 That's why Marrone compensated by hiring a dedicated QB coach last year. Oh, wait... i know. Looking back at his situation, it's hard to believe he won 4 games last year. Project QB, raw, no vet QB to learn from, no QB coach, rookie inexperienced oc, rookie inexperienced HC, one of his WRs was TJ Graham...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) The TD catch by Watkins against the Vikings looked easy. It wasn't. Great catch, great field awareness, great foot placement. Dude is a rookie. And a witch. Not to mention that he got two yards of separation on a two yard pass in two seconds. Dude's a witch. Edited October 30, 2014 by Kelly the Dog
Orton's Arm Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I love Fitz but he's more of the type to start slinging the ball around and creating too many turnovers. Conversely, he was able to avoid sacks better than Orton. They are comparable but Orton has better accuracy, thus far. And a better arm. > Orton has . . . a better arm.
The Frankish Reich Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Orton has been a revelation. He has been what Alex Smith was to KC last year. A smart, leader who took his lumps early in his career. He has all of the physical (and mental) tools to play the position. We are very fortunate to have him. I for one thought that he would be a stopgap until they could get someone (like Bradford) next year to play the position. If KO plays like this the 2nd half of the season I would expect him to be the QB of this team for the next 4-5 years. If you extrapolate his numbers over the course of the season you are talking a 67.4% completion percentage, 4512 yards, 36 TDs and 12 INTs with a 104 rating. That would be the highest completion %, most yards and most TDs a Bills QB has ever had in a season. Well, let's not get carried away here ... ... out of curiosity, I started poking around to find QBs who seemed to "break out" at age 30 or above and put up a really good run of at least 4-5 years. Some candidates: - Trent Green. Had a decent season at age 28 with the Redskins, then went to St Louis and played really well when Kurt Warner got hurt. Went to KC and, lo and behold, starting at age 32 put up 4 seasons in a row with a QBR over 90. We forget that he was really good. This is my unlikely-but-not-outrageous best case scenario for Orton. - Kurt Warner. Will we ever see a Kurt Warner again? I doubt it. But he was only 28 when he came out of nowhere to put up HOF type numbers. Not really a comparable. - Rich Gannon. Starting at 34 he reeled off 4 excellent seasons in a row. Obviously Orton is not the same type of QB; Gannon just had a lot more athleticism. I doubt Orton can do what Gannon did, but he's about the best very late bloomer in recent memory. Maybe ever? - Let's go back a ways now: Craig Morton. He actually had a couple of excellent seasons with the Cowboys before Roger Staubach pushed him aside. He then languished on the bench and with the Giants for several years, then came storming back at age 34 with the Broncos. Kept that up till he was 38, when he put up a 90+ QB rating in a time of lower QB ratings overall. Maybe the most Orton-esque of these QBs; no mobility at all, but could make the throws and read the defenses. So I guess what I'm saying is, there's a chance ...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Hopefully Orton can turn into our own Rich Gannon.
CardinalScotts Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I think Orton to himself is like holy sh*t this team is talented I can lead this group. Trying to surround EJ we ended up surrounding whoever the starting qb was turned out to be Orton. I think they have a 3-4 year window to get a qb if the elect to move away from EJ but the best part is you don't have to play him when he's not ready.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Orton's average year is 60%, 3500 yards, 20 TDs and 12 TDs. If you say that it's 15-25% easier to throw now than it was 5 years ago, we are talking like 4200 yards and 24 TDs. That is a middle of the road starter, not a bottom 5 guy. We have become accustomed to bottom 5 guys. I don't think that it is unrealistic to believe that he could keep this up over the course of a season. The game is won and lost pre snap now more than ever. If you are a smart and accurate QB you can succeed. Technology has provided teams with so much information that game plans are better than ever. Smart QBs can eyeball the formation and adjust accordingly. Look at the way we analyze the All-22's now. If we have access to that what do you think that they have within the building? Edited October 30, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
The Frankish Reich Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I'll grant you this: Orton is playing better now than he ever has in his career. So he's already a late bloomer in some sense of the term. Sustaining it is, of course, harder. But I saw Orton do some really good things in Denver on what were really pretty bad football teams, and he's definitely more confident and in command now than he was then.
Saxum Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I'm so glad EJ has a veteran to learn from now. The fact that we had Tuel and Lewis in the QB room last year instead of a vet and a QB coach really annoys me. The veteran QB they paid for SHOULD have been in their helping but I guess his concussion prevented that. RIGHT.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 and/or introduced Ge-NOOOO permanently to the pine after the SD game. true Jets better bring Tebow back I'll grant you this: Orton is playing better now than he ever has in his career. So he's already a late bloomer in some sense of the term. Sustaining it is, of course, harder. But I saw Orton do some really good things in Denver on what were really pretty bad football teams, and he's definitely more confident and in command now than he was then. his demeanor is definitely of a confident veteran, Rodgers like. I wish Kyle had some mobility, he is a friggin Bledsoe back there, although I almost fell out of my chair when I saw him scramble for positive yardage on one play last week.
Casey D Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 true Jets better bring Tebow back his demeanor is definitely of a confident veteran, Rodgers like. I wish Kyle had some mobility, he is a friggin Bledsoe back there, although I almost fell out of my chair when I saw him scramble for positive yardage on one play last week. Does anyone know the parameters of the voidable part of Orton's contract for 2015. Is it up to him, the team or either?
Alaska Darin Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Does anyone know the parameters of the voidable part of Orton's contract for 2015. Is it up to him, the team or either? Up to him.
ricojes Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 The TD catch by Watkins against the Vikings looked easy. It wasn't. Great catch, great field awareness, great foot placement. Dude is a rookie. And a witch. The pass had to perfect as well. It was a tough play that had to be perfect and they made it look easy.
Recommended Posts