C.Biscuit97 Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Orton's QBR is higher than EJ's, so again... why isn't he the best option for the Bills right now? Is anyone arguing that? Orton in year 10 is better than EJ. I think this comparison is to basically say why it's dumb to make sweeping generalizations on any young QB, because Orton struggled at first too. Also, I think a separate conversation has begun on how good has Orton been. IMO, the Jets game was far and away his most impressive. The rest has been eh.
Big Gun Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 My opinion is that if you have poor mechanics it's almost impossible to teach accuracy. Fitz had decent mechanics but not good mechanics, and it got worse and worse the harder and further he needed to throw because his arm was not strong enough. So when he had to gun the ball on an out pattern or throw deep, he wound up and threw it as hard as he can like a baseball. You're not going to improve accuracy on that. When he had David Lee trying to fix his accuracy it was really only on one kind of throw, when he looked and planted to throw to the left. Which was a mechanics issue. But it just didn't work and it looked like he got worse trying to think about it. Ej on the other hand, has very good mechanics. But he lets one or two of the ten or so elements of mechanics slip on too many plays, often when there is pressure. It's a pretty common thing for young guys where the game hasn't slowed down for them yet. That's why he can throw beautiful balls at times when he looks awesome, but far, far too often he looks inaccurate. That can be taught. With experience, he can not let one or two elements of his mechanics screw up his motion many fewer times, so in turn he will be a lot more accurate. But that said, there are different kinds or levels of being accurate. There is an accurate completions kind, meaning able to get it to a receiver where he can catch it, and there is a very accurate kind, where you throw darts to guys who catch it on the run. Orton, when he is accurate usually throws darts and hits guys in stride. Ej on the other hand, usually just gets it to guys in the area they can catch it. He has yet to consistently show that he can hit guys in perfect stride on a consistent basis. And there is a huge difference in that kind of accuracy. It's what makes Brady so great. He does it better than anyone. It's what makes Manning and Rogers and Brees great. I'm not sure if that kind of accuracy can be taught. Brady surely improved greatly on it over his first 3-5 years. So it can be improved. We will have to see whether or not EJ can ever do that. If he can't he cannot hit his perceived ceiling. It's my biggest worry about him. He has shown all the tools but that one. Without it, he can be a good quarterback but not a great one. He will put up stats that are better than he is (which he already somewhat has like the second best completion percentage in ACC History). No he doesn't, not even close to good mechanics. That's a major part of his problems.
Dorkington Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Is anyone arguing that? Orton in year 10 is better than EJ. I think this comparison is to basically say why it's dumb to make sweeping generalizations on any young QB, because Orton struggled at first too. Also, I think a separate conversation has begun on how good has Orton been. IMO, the Jets game was far and away his most impressive. The rest has been eh. It seems like a lot of folks are arguing in favor of EJ right now, because he might develop in the future. But maybe I'm misinterpreting things. I'm of the opinion that Orton is playing well enough to win us football games, our biggest weakness is our offensive line. EJ should have been behind a vet from the beginning, hopefully this all helps him and he develops in the future. But, he'll need to develop within the next couple years if we want him to be successful on *this* team. If not, he might find success elsewhere, or simply not get a second chance.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 It seems like a lot of folks are arguing in favor of EJ right now, because he might develop in the future. But maybe I'm misinterpreting things. I'm of the opinion that Orton is playing well enough to win us football games, our biggest weakness is our offensive line. EJ should have been behind a vet from the beginning, hopefully this all helps him and he develops in the future. But, he'll need to develop within the next couple years if we want him to be successful on *this* team. If not, he might find success elsewhere, or simply not get a second chance. No they(we) are arguing that with time, dedication, and practice EJ could still be a good starter. The opposite side believes he has shown he can not and that he is incapable of turning it around no matter what he does. I think everyone believes that Orton provides the Bills the best chance to win as long as he continues to play as he did on Sunday.
Storm Front Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Some other poster said it best in another thread: The Bills haven't made the playoffs in 15 years and some folks here are worried about what might transpire 5 years from now.
Dorkington Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 No they(we) are arguing that with time, dedication, and practice EJ could still be a good starter. The opposite side believes he has shown he can not and that he is incapable of turning it around no matter what he does. I think everyone believes that Orton provides the Bills the best chance to win as long as he continues to play as he did on Sunday. Except for one guy (agree on the rest, carry on)
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 anyone who claims that I said Orton can't win is an and is just trolling for controversy. no replies needed.
Rob's House Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Is anyone arguing that? Orton in year 10 is better than EJ. I think this comparison is to basically say why it's dumb to make sweeping generalizations on any young QB, because Orton struggled at first too. Also, I think a separate conversation has begun on how good has Orton been. IMO, the Jets game was far and away his most impressive. The rest has been eh. I disagree with Orton being "eh", but I will say I've been really impressed with how Manuel's handled this situation. Instead of pouting he's taken a positive approach and tried to learn what he can from this opportunity and be a good teammate. These kind of things make me think there may be hope for him yet. Who knows, they might have saved his career by pulling him now rather than leaving him out there to catch a permanent case of David Carr syndrome. I don't see him taking the reigns from Orton in the next few years, but if he can build some confidence and learn to keep his cool under pressure he may have another chapter left to write.
bobobonators Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Except for one guy (agree on the rest, carry on) anyone who claims that I said Orton can't win is an and is just trolling for controversy. no replies needed. LOL :beer:TGIF
WyoWind Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Comparing a veteran who's had a lot of opportunities on four different NFL teams to essentially a rookie with 14 regular season starts is sort of apples to oranges. I'll give Orton his due in that he's brought his experience to the offense and is getting it done at QB. However, let's not forget the questionable play calling by Hackett and the assumption that HE may have been holding EJ back from his development. Hackett has destroyed CJ Spiller's career in Buffalo by refusing to utilize his talents by building more outside running schemes for him instead of sending him between the tackles where he's proven to be unsuccessful time and time again. I can only think that his conservative play calling held EJ back from cutting it loose and giving it a shot. I didn't agree with benching EJ but I'm a Bills fan and if Orton is going to keep winning games for the Bills, then I'm 100% behind him. I just hope EJ is back under center again, maybe next year, after a good spell of real development and learning. He has the tools...he just needs to be coached. Also, keep it in the back of your mind that Orton lost his starting QB job to Tim Tebow in Denver. Bottom line, the winning might not last a real long time.
Agent 91 Posted November 1, 2014 Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) If you can't understand the difference between the sports you just mentioned and an NFL QB then you need to think harder: What do bowling, darts and basketball all have in common? A stationary target. I can sit here and practice shooting into my garbage can all day 500x's a day and get really good at it - to the point where I could probably close my eyes and still get it in b/c it all becomes muscle memory. It's a completely different animal the second someone starts moving the garbage can on me. I know where you are going. But I'm talking about blanket statements. I'm not talking about sport a vs sport b. You can go out and practice that but with muscle memory learned you can add in variable like not a clean pocket and your moving target. I'll take basketball for instance. A lay up. A spot up jumper changing your shot mid air. You have to learn The basics. In basketball the goal is stationary but you are not as stationary as a qb. You can find yourself in any position at any time and you still have to locate The hoop. You still have to figure out so many things that hop into The game people don't think about. Think about he alley oop. That is one of the hardest pass to make. Any sport period. But with practice it can be learned. I still maintain accuracy can be taught. Edited November 1, 2014 by Agent 91
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