Hackett Haters Desist

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

17 passes 4 TD's, coincidence or gameplan?

 

Sammy Watkins !! nuf said. Where would KO be w/o Sammy?

 

You know the rookie trying to get used to the speed of the NFL?

 

KO was given a short field on 2 of those TD's, as in he got the ball within the 10 yard line on one and the 2 yard line on the other. YOU HAD BETTER SCORE a TD

 

Sammy gets a 10 yard pass and runs for 50 more. Who gets the credit? Sammy for the 60? Or Kyle for the 60?

 

and you people say I'm trolling.

Edited October 29, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[FireChan]

 

 

Sammy Watkins !! nuf said. Where would KO be w/o Sammy?

 

You know the rookie trying to get used to the speed of the NFL?

 

KO was given a short field on 2 of those TD's, as in he got the ball within the 10 yard line on one and the 2 yard line on the other. YOU HAD BETTER SCORE a TD

 

Sammy gets a 10 yard pass and runs for 50 more. Who gets the credit? Sammy for the 60? Or Kyle for the 60?

 

and you people say I'm trolling.

 

They both get the credit. That's how the WR/QB relationship works.

[rfk]

Better than the grade school offense we ha.ve now

 

Chan don't get up before noon now and then hits the golf course...Im sure he'd rather have all you guys calling for his head with his midget league play calling and favoritism toward some players.

 

The grass is always greener....

 

Hackett is my man and from what that SI article implied Orton is THE MAN in the O meetings. Shows what drinking Bourbon straight will do for one's development as a leader.

[Orton's Arm]

17 passes 4 TD's, coincidence or gameplan?

 

> 17 passes 4 TD's, coincidence or gameplan?

 

If by "game plan" you mean "have the defense create more turnovers than a French bakery," then I'm going with "game plan."

 

That said, many of the passing plays were well designed. The three completed passes to Watkins were well-designed pass plays, as was the one pass to Watkins that Orton missed. The 1 yard TD pass (which came after the defense gave the offense the ball at the Jets' one) was also a well-designed play.

 

I'm not saying Hackett is totally inept. But on a day when the running backs averaged 2 yards a carry, and Orton averaged 14 yards per pass attempt, it's far from clear why Hackett would want to emphasize run, run, pass as strongly as he did. The Bills ran 13 third down plays--or 13 opportunities for Hackett to call run, run, pass. Of those, Hackett called run, run, pass eight times. That's 62%.

 

There is also the minor matter of Hackett's run blocking scheme, or lack thereof. It seemed like whenever the Bills ran the ball, the attitude was, We can afford to write off this particular down. We don't have to worry about moving the chains until third and long. So for now, let's just try to avoid turnovers and keep the clock running.

 

Orton had a good game. Not as good a game as the numbers would suggest, but a good game nonetheless. However, it's not like he was so perfect that the offensive coordinator could reasonably rely on him to always bail out the offense on third and long, after Hackett had done his very best to squander first and second down. Even if Orton had played perfectly, there are ways for third down pass plays to fail that don't involve errors on the quarterback's part. Missed blocks, dropped passes, penalties, etc.

 

If your running backs are averaging 2 yards a carry, the only way you're moving the chains is through the air. If an offensive coordinator calls run, run, pass under circumstances like those, the very first time anything goes wrong with the passing game, they will have to kick the ball away. Play calling like that is simply unacceptable, unless the game is already so far out of the other team's reach that victory has already been assured.

[Captain Caveman]

To me this week was very similar to the Miami game. It became clear very early that the opposing offense was not going to beat us, as long as we didn't beat ourselves. Hackett made sure we were not in a position to beat ourselves. Not a big deal.

[Alphadawg7]

 

 

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think you're an idiot or one of the worst offenders. I just thought you were being overly critical. A lot of EJ fans **** on Hackett b/c he was their EJ scapegoat. Perhaps you're not one of them. It's cool.

 

And my bait is wonderful.

 

Lol...Why does everything come back to EJ? Come on dude, criticizing Hackett isn't some passive aggressive way to endorse a player on the bench. The people who talk the most about EJ are the people who bashed him before the season even began. Let it freaking go, he's on the bench.

 

Hackett sucks, period. Has nothing to do with EJ, Fitzcraptrick, Trentative, JP Loserman or any other QB not starting for the Bills right now. He sucks because he is terribly predictable, unimaginative, terrible at game planning to exploit weaknesses of the opponent, terrible are using his teams talents correctly, horrible at adjusting in game, and is stubborn and forces his offense no matter the situation or personnel. He's also a moron on 3rd down, something we are amongst the worst in the league at converting. 3rd and long, he calls short strike routes. 3rd and 5 or less he throws low percentage bombs. Stuff like that.

 

It's about Hackett not hacking it

[Orton's Arm]

Lol...Why does everything come back to EJ? Come on dude, criticizing Hackett isn't some passive aggressive way to endorse a player on the bench. The people who talk the most about EJ are the people who bashed him before the season even began. Let it freaking go, he's on the bench.

 

Hackett sucks, period. Has nothing to do with EJ, Fitzcraptrick, Trentative, JP Loserman or any other QB not starting for the Bills right now. He sucks because he is terribly predictable, unimaginative, terrible at game planning to exploit weaknesses of the opponent, terrible are using his teams talents correctly, horrible at adjusting in game, and is stubborn and forces his offense no matter the situation or personnel. He's also a moron on 3rd down, something we are amongst the worst in the league at converting. 3rd and long, he calls short strike routes. 3rd and 5 or less he throws low percentage bombs. Stuff like that.

 

It's about Hackett not hacking it

 

When the Manuel pick was announced, I felt the same way I did after Music City Miracle, or any number of other Bills-related heartbreaks. Nothing that's happened since then has changed my perspective.

 

That being said, I can't disagree with a single word you wrote about Hackett. Your description of his limitations is spot-on. The way he used Spiller is Exhibit A. We know Spiller can be successful in the right system. Gailey showed us that. But he isn't going to be successful if the only thing the offensive coordinator does is run him into a pile of bodies in the middle of the field. We spent the 9th overall pick on that guy, for crying out loud! He looked like he was on his way to a successful career under Gailey. Maybe not successful enough to justify his draft position, perhaps, but still a good, solid career. And now we're writing all that off because the offensive coordinator can't hack it? That's unacceptable!

 

You also have to wonder how many of our offensive linemen's careers have taken a turn for the worse due to the blocking scheme or other aspects of coaching.

[Rob's House]

Lol...Why does everything come back to EJ? Come on dude, criticizing Hackett isn't some passive aggressive way to endorse a player on the bench. The people who talk the most about EJ are the people who bashed him before the season even began. Let it freaking go, he's on the bench.

 

Hackett sucks, period. Has nothing to do with EJ, Fitzcraptrick, Trentative, JP Loserman or any other QB not starting for the Bills right now. He sucks because he is terribly predictable, unimaginative, terrible at game planning to exploit weaknesses of the opponent, terrible are using his teams talents correctly, horrible at adjusting in game, and is stubborn and forces his offense no matter the situation or personnel. He's also a moron on 3rd down, something we are amongst the worst in the league at converting. 3rd and long, he calls short strike routes. 3rd and 5 or less he throws low percentage bombs. Stuff like that.

 

It's about Hackett not hacking it

 

I'm not even that high on Hackett. I don't think he's a great OC, but I don't think he's the village idiot he's made out to be either. My main issue is that I think the majority of criticism toward him is unfounded. I've said for a long while that 80-90% of those criticizing the play calling don't have the foggiest idea what they're talking about (to clarify, I'm acknowledging that the other 10-20% do know what they're talking about - and everyone thinks they're in that group).

 

Personally, I'm not going to criticize this past win. People can argue the tired bit about not getting 6 TOs every week, and if we use the same game plan against Denver then I'll agree with them, but when you're going against an offense you think you can beat up a conservative offensive plan isn't as idiotic as the Madden experts among us would have me believe.

[AJ1]

Lol...Why does everything come back to EJ? Come on dude, criticizing Hackett isn't some passive aggressive way to endorse a player on the bench. The people who talk the most about EJ are the people who bashed him before the season even began. Let it freaking go, he's on the bench.

 

Hackett sucks, period. Has nothing to do with EJ, Fitzcraptrick, Trentative, JP Loserman or any other QB not starting for the Bills right now. He sucks because he is terribly predictable, unimaginative, terrible at game planning to exploit weaknesses of the opponent, terrible are using his teams talents correctly, horrible at adjusting in game, and is stubborn and forces his offense no matter the situation or personnel. He's also a moron on 3rd down, something we are amongst the worst in the league at converting. 3rd and long, he calls short strike routes. 3rd and 5 or less he throws low percentage bombs. Stuff like that.

 

It's about Hackett not hacking it

If the only way of getting rid of Hackett is to fire Marrone, so be it.

[Alphadawg7]

I'm not even that high on Hackett. I don't think he's a great OC, but I don't think he's the village idiot he's made out to be either. My main issue is that I think the majority of criticism toward him is unfounded. I've said for a long while that 80-90% of those criticizing the play calling don't have the foggiest idea what they're talking about (to clarify, I'm acknowledging that the other 10-20% do know what they're talking about - and everyone thinks they're in that group).

 

Personally, I'm not going to criticize this past win. People can argue the tired bit about not getting 6 TOs every week, and if we use the same game plan against Denver then I'll agree with them, but when you're going against an offense you think you can beat up a conservative offensive plan isn't as idiotic as the Madden experts among us would have me believe.

 

My point was that criticizing Hackett, Orton, or anyone else isn't some passive aggressive endorsement of EJ. Just tired of people calling people EJ Lovers every time they say something critical about something on this team...its stupid and has nothing to do with EJ. 90% of the people talking about EJ are the same people who bashed him since draft night and just can't move on. If anyone says anything about anyone they just come out and say its some kind of excuse for a guy on our bench...its absurd. You can't even have a real discussion about anything on this board anymore.

 

Now back to Hackett...Here is the problem...you want to focus on him calling the game that way just this past week. But the problem is, he has called every game that way. This isn't a one week problem, this is a season and a half problem. Like many, I hated what he did last year but also gave him the benefit of the doubt under the circumstances last year.

 

All he has done this year is prove more of the same each and every week. There is a reason we are almost last in the league at 3rd down conversions, and it has not improved with Orton. If everyone wants to say Orton is so much better, then who's fault is it that we don't convert 3rd downs? If its not Orton, then its Hackett...if its not Hackett then its Orton when we pass for 3 yards on 3rd and 9. Or how about when we chuck it 40 yards downfield into double coverage on 3rd and 3?

 

Everyone can't get a pass. Personally, Orton isn't playing nearly as well as his legend suggests on this board. Yes, he is playing better than EJ and should be starting right now and I hope he keeps getting better. But, I don't think he is playing with enough consistency...but people want to argue how amazing he is. Ok then, so if he is so amazing then what is it keeping us from converting 3rd downs? What is it keeping us consistently going 3 and out? If Orton is infallible then its got to be play calling and coaching adjustments.

 

All I know is that I am stoked we got the win and crushed the Jests as I despise that team and its fan base. But to just blindly turn a blind eye to things still plaguing this offense is silly to me. The truth is, weeks 3-7 this offense stunk under both Orton and EJ. Last week, the scoreboard paints a MUCH different picture on how efficient and consistent this offense was. We had nine 3 and outs...nine. We did not play nearly as well as the score suggests. Yes, its encouraging to put those kinds of points up, and I hope it continues. But it won't if we can't figure out how to convert 3rd downs or get the run game going.

 

So, it isn't about yesterday, its about tomorrow. Can this team beat a GOOD team with its inability to convert 3rd downs or have any consistency? Can we beat a GOOD team with how bad the OL has been? Can we beat a GOOD team with how non existent the run game has been?

 

So who is responsible? If its not the on field general, then it must be the off field play caller who can't seem to get any consistency in any aspect of this offense going.

 

For me, Hackett is the biggest problem on this offense right now, bigger than the OL.

[Kelly the Dog]

My point was that criticizing Hackett, Orton, or anyone else isn't some passive aggressive endorsement of EJ. Just tired of people calling people EJ Lovers every time they say something critical about something on this team...its stupid and has nothing to do with EJ. 90% of the people talking about EJ are the same people who bashed him since draft night and just can't move on. If anyone says anything about anyone they just come out and say its some kind of excuse for a guy on our bench...its absurd. You can't even have a real discussion about anything on this board anymore.

 

Now back to Hackett...Here is the problem...you want to focus on him calling the game that way just this past week. But the problem is, he has called every game that way. This isn't a one week problem, this is a season and a half problem. Like many, I hated what he did last year but also gave him the benefit of the doubt under the circumstances last year.

 

All he has done this year is prove more of the same each and every week. There is a reason we are almost last in the league at 3rd down conversions, and it has not improved with Orton. If everyone wants to say Orton is so much better, then who's fault is it that we don't convert 3rd downs? If its not Orton, then its Hackett...if its not Hackett then its Orton when we pass for 3 yards on 3rd and 9. Or how about when we chuck it 40 yards downfield into double coverage on 3rd and 3?

 

Everyone can't get a pass. Personally, Orton isn't playing nearly as well as his legend suggests on this board. Yes, he is playing better than EJ and should be starting right now and I hope he keeps getting better. But, I don't think he is playing with enough consistency...but people want to argue how amazing he is. Ok then, so if he is so amazing then what is it keeping us from converting 3rd downs? What is it keeping us consistently going 3 and out? If Orton is infallible then its got to be play calling and coaching adjustments.

 

All I know is that I am stoked we got the win and crushed the Jests as I despise that team and its fan base. But to just blindly turn a blind eye to things still plaguing this offense is silly to me. The truth is, weeks 3-7 this offense stunk under both Orton and EJ. Last week, the scoreboard paints a MUCH different picture on how efficient and consistent this offense was. We had nine 3 and outs...nine. We did not play nearly as well as the score suggests. Yes, its encouraging to put those kinds of points up, and I hope it continues. But it won't if we can't figure out how to convert 3rd downs or get the run game going.

 

Okay, so you went from first saying that just because people criticize the team doesn't mean they are EJ lovers. And then immediately into saying that everyone who says Orton is playing well is saying he is infallible.

[rfk]

Read the SI article dude...Hackett and Orton are like Kelley and Marchibroda, Hitler and Gobels, Lewis and Martin ...well you get the idea..they are going good places together. .Screw the haters, the complainers, the nit pickers, the football genius posters who have 5% of the information and make 100% proclamations!

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

The reason that this Hackett thing seems so vociferous is because we have a healthy sized army of posters who like to B word about most everything, and are often not happy with a win. But this particular issue draws in an even bigger sized army who are usually thrilled with any win, but this is so aggravating that they are bitching about wins when they never do that, and even B word about people bitching after wins. So it's three times as many as the normal bitchers.

What? I'd like to B word about that!

[Alphadawg7]

Read the SI article dude...Hackett and Orton are like Kelley and Marchibroda, Hitler and Gobels, Lewis and Martin ...well you get the idea..they are going good places together. .Screw the haters, the complainers, the nit pickers, the football genius posters who have 5% of the information and make 100% proclamations!

 

Like you?

[Best Player Available]

 

 

Like you?

beat me to it!

[Alphadawg7]

The reason that this Hackett thing seems so vociferous is because we have a healthy sized army of posters who like to B word about most everything, and are often not happy with a win. But this particular issue draws in an even bigger sized army who are usually thrilled with any win, but this is so aggravating that they are bitching about wins when they never do that, and even B word about people bitching after wins. So it's three times as many as the normal bitchers.

 

I have been complaining about Hackett since last year, this offseason, this preseason, and during and after every game this year. Has nothing to do with Wins and Losses...has everything to do with how he is performing as a coordinator.

 

Last I checked, this is a football forum about the Buffalo Bills to discuss the Buffalo Bills. Since when does every post have to be about praising a win thats already happened? What happened to being able to talk about the team going forward?

 

This offense sucks and has sucked...its in the bottom third of the league in pretty much every offensive statistical category, even under Orton. If you want to play the "yay we won game", great, do that...start a thread on that. But everyone here as the right to discuss the team moving forward. If someone is on a crusade, then great, I am with you and its stupid to just b*tch to b*tch.

 

But Hackett has been a long time problem and his excuses from last year are gone and nothing has changed. He fails in so many ways as a coordinator. This offense has no consistency and one break out score does not just mask the issues this team has on Offense. And some of us discuss those concerns rather than being a cheerleader.

[Kelly the Dog]

I have been complaining about Hackett since last year, this offseason, this preseason, and during and after every game this year. Has nothing to do with Wins and Losses...has everything to do with how he is performing as a coordinator.

 

Last I checked, this is a football forum about the Buffalo Bills to discuss the Buffalo Bills. Since when does every post have to be about praising a win thats already happened? What happened to being able to talk about the team going forward?

 

This offense sucks and has sucked...its in the bottom third of the league in pretty much every offensive statistical category, even under Orton. If you want to play the "yay we won game", great, do that...start a thread on that. But everyone here as the right to discuss the team moving forward. If someone is on a crusade, then great, I am with you and its stupid to just b*tch to b*tch.

 

But Hackett has been a long time problem and his excuses from last year are gone and nothing has changed. He fails in so many ways as a coordinator. This offense has no consistency and one break out score does not just mask the issues this team has on Offense. And some of us discuss those concerns rather than being a cheerleader.

What does that response have anything WHATSOEVER to do with the post of mine you referenced and quoted. That's a real head scratcher.

[Orton's Arm]

Read the SI article dude...Hackett and Orton are like Kelley and Marchibroda, Hitler and Gobels, Lewis and Martin ...well you get the idea..they are going good places together. .Screw the haters, the complainers, the nit pickers, the football genius posters who have 5% of the information and make 100% proclamations!

 

Hackett needs Orton. Orton doesn't need Hackett.

[YoloinOhio]

I don't know which Hackett thread to put this in

 

@ChrisBrownBills: Hackett: Why we were persistent with the run http://t.co/vAtJJLE4Ph

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't know which Hackett thread to put this in

 

@ChrisBrownBills: Hackett: Why we were persistent with the run http://t.co/vAtJJLE4Ph

Except three of the four most explosive plays, the 25 yarder to Woods, the TD to Woods, and the 84 yarder to Watkins all happened well before he started running all the time.

 

Hackett mentioning Robert Woods as the beneficiary of his commitment to run is particularly appalling. On the drive that Woods got 47 of his 50 yards, included the TD, the Bills dropped back to throw six of eight plays. On the sequence of plays he had the two catches for 47 yards they threw every play out of six (well, called a pass play, one of them Orton scrambled for seven yards). The rest of the game he had one catch for three yards.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Kelly the Dog