K-9 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I give up Mrs. Hackett. Your boy is in fact a genius. You should buy him a Raggedy Andy doll for Christmas so he can always be reminded of Lou Piccone. Nobody's calling Hackett or Marrone a genius. Just saying that when you separate the fanboy emotion from the situation there might be legitimate reasons for Mike Williams not to be in the lineup. Is Piccone running incorrect routes? Is he not getting open? Did he not make some big plays the last few games? That actually happened. Contrast that with your make-believe scenario that Williams would have been so much better. Maybe he would have, maybe not. We will never know. But please don't simply state a fantasy as fact. There's too much of that around here. Sorry, Mrs. Williams. Your boy's coach doesn't seem to like him very much. And that's tough for a momma to take when her little boy is being disrespected so much. And in front of the home folks even! Oh, and you may want to come up with a better comparison than Lou Piccone. He simple doesn't resemble Hogan in any way, shape, or form. Actually, Williams is a better comparison to Piccone as Hogan is faster, stronger, and jumps much higher than Williams. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct We are LAST IN THE NFL in redzone offense and we were one of the worst last season too. You are wrong sir hes arguing the plays are there but our qb cant make them.... which is still an issue with coaching and playcalling, but a different twist on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 http://www.teamranki...one-scoring-pct We are LAST IN THE NFL in redzone offense and we were one of the worst last season too. You are wrong sir Well, when receivers are getting open consistently and plays are there to be made and yet aren't, why do you suppose that is? QB play has more to do with it than any other single aspect. GO BILLS!!! hes arguing the plays are there but our qb cant make them.... which is still an issue with coaching and playcalling, but a different twist on it. Are you saying it's on the coaches to devise different plays where the receivers are open because then the QBs will find them? The current plays where multiple receivers are open is what's handicapping the QB's ability to find them? I'm not following this at all. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well, when receivers are getting open consistently and plays are there to be made and yet aren't, why do you suppose that is? QB play has more to do with it than any other single aspect. GO BILLS!!! Are you saying it's on the coaches to devise different plays where the receivers are open because then the QBs will find them? The current plays where multiple receivers are open is what's handicapping the QB's ability to find them? I'm not following this at all. GO BILLS!!! We'll need a genius OC who can call great passing plays that don't require the QB to have to throw the ball. Get on it, Whaley! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Are you saying it's on the coaches to devise different plays where the receivers are open because then the QBs will find them? The current plays where multiple receivers are open is what's handicapping the QB's ability to find them? I'm not following this at all. GO BILLS!!! My point was if we can't execute the plays being called on a regular basis during a game that there's still something wrong. Are we not getting them prepped enough in practice? Are we not aware of their ability? The red zone has been a consistent issue for 2 years. At some point is that coaching too? Or is it all just the qb? Is this like the "Hackett didn't call the fumble play" despite leading the league in fumbles for 2 years now? I have to believe there's some shared blame there Edited November 12, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Guys if it's 2nd and 2 at the 5 yard line why would you throw it twice then kick a fg? Even the best qb's only complete 6 out of 10 throws. I don't care how open you think the receivers are (subjective). A lot has to happen for them to get the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 My point was if we can't execute the plays being called on a regular basis during a game that there's still something wrong. Are we not getting them prepped enough in practice? Are we not aware of their ability? The red zone has been a consistent issue for 2 years. At some point is that coaching too? Or is this like the "Hackett didn't call the fumble play" despite leading the league in fumbles for 2 years now? I have to believe there's some shared blame there Well said NoSaint. I don't think that anyone is saying that it is "___'s" fault for the offensive issues. The blame is spread. The fact remains that they are the worst in the league in the red zone. No one is doing a good job there if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Well said NoSaint. I don't think that anyone is saying that it is "___'s" fault for the offensive issues. The blame is spread. The fact remains that they are the worst in the league in the red zone. No one is doing a good job there if that is the case. Exactly - this threads centered on coaching so it's my focus, and I don't think you can separate them from the issue. They are a big part of it - but I'll debate how big. For what it's worth I've also been active in the "KO is good but has shortcomings" threads too. Which is an issue in this discussion. But I think a legitimately very good offensive coaching staff would make more of what we have Edited November 12, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Nobody's calling Hackett or Marrone a genius. Just saying that when you separate the fanboy emotion from the situation there might be legitimate reasons for Mike Williams not to be in the lineup. Is Piccone running incorrect routes? Is he not getting open? Did he not make some big plays the last few games? That actually happened. Contrast that with your make-believe scenario that Williams would have been so much better. Maybe he would have, maybe not. We will never know. But please don't simply state a fantasy as fact. There's too much of that around here. Sorry, Mrs. Williams. Your boy's coach doesn't seem to like him very much. And that's tough for a momma to take when her little boy is being disrespected so much. And in front of the home folks even! Oh, and you may want to come up with a better comparison than Lou Piccone. He simple doesn't resemble Hogan in any way, shape, or form. Actually, Williams is a better comparison to Piccone as Hogan is faster, stronger, and jumps much higher than Williams. GO BILLS!!! LOL @ your love of Hogan/Lamb/Piccone. I thought it was Marrone/Hackett. Now I'm confused. I'm glad he's made a few plays too but he has the physicality of Taylor Swift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Well the fire Hackett thread is approaching 50 pages. I don't think he should be fired right now by any stretch, but if I were an analytics guy, I may say there is something to the concept. Looks like a trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 LOL @ your love of Hogan/Lamb/Piccone. I thought it was Marrone/Hackett. Now I'm confused. I'm glad he's made a few plays too but he has the physicality of Taylor Swift. My point was if we can't execute the plays being called on a regular basis during a game that there's still something wrong. Are we not getting them prepped enough in practice? Are we not aware of their ability? The red zone has been a consistent issue for 2 years. At some point is that coaching too? Or is it all just the qb? Is this like the "Hackett didn't call the fumble play" despite leading the league in fumbles for 2 years now? I have to believe there's some shared blame there Thanks for the clarification. Of course the coaches share in the blame. But as the redzone problems relate to this discussion, Hackett has been consistently finding ways to get guys open inside the 20, usually multiple guys, and our QBs are just missing them. I'm not sure there's anything to fix from a schematic perspective when that's the case. It's a simple matter of execution. GO BILLS!!! LOL @ your love of Hogan/Lamb/Piccone. I thought it was Marrone/Hackett. Now I'm confused. I'm glad he's made a few plays too but he has the physicality of Taylor Swift. You aren't capable of seeing things in a rational sense given the crap in this post. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 You aren't capable of seeing things in a rational sense given the crap in this post. GO BILLS!!! Given the crap in this post like....well they took a low rounder for him...he had a minor injury in 2014.....that proves he sucks and Brad Lamb is better.....you don't understand the word rational. Mike Williams is a first round pick with a history of success in the NFL. Stevie was a 7th round pick with a history of success in the NFL. You boy Brad Lamb has been training camp fodder for years who has finally developed into someone who can contribute a little. Marrone's jettisoning Stevie and benching Williams is not rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Given the crap in this post like....well they took a low rounder for him...he had a minor injury in 2014.....that proves he sucks and Brad Lamb is better.....you don't understand the word rational. Mike Williams is a first round pick with a history of success in the NFL. Stevie was a 7th round pick with a history of success in the NFL. You boy Brad Lamb has been training camp fodder for years who has finally developed into someone who can contribute a little. Marrone's jettisoning Stevie and benching Williams is not rational. Brad Lamb? Lou Piccone? You keep bringing these past players up and you suggest I don't know the meaning of the word rational? Stop acting like a schoolgirl with a crush on Mike Williams. Because for all his talent, he can't seem to get on the field. And that rankles you to no end and therefore any attempt to suggest Marrone may have legit reasons for his lineup decisions tends to get your knickers in a bunch. I get it. You disagree with the coach. Write a letter, picket outside his office, or buy a Mike Williams fathead and mail it to him in protest. But the childish need to denigrate a player who has contributed and made a few significant plays on top of that, is absurd. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Brad Lamb? Lou Piccone? You keep bringing these past players up and you suggest I don't know the meaning of the word rational? Stop acting like a schoolgirl with a crush on Mike Williams. Because for all his talent, he can't seem to get on the field. And that rankles you to no end and therefore any attempt to suggest Marrone may have legit reasons for his lineup decisions tends to get your knickers in a bunch. I get it. You disagree with the coach. Write a letter, picket outside his office, or buy a Mike Williams fathead and mail it to him in protest. But the childish need to denigrate a player who has contributed and made a few significant plays on top of that, is absurd. GO BILLS!!! Except that Marrone does have a history of playing favorites and inexplicably leaving better players on the bench. Sadly, most of those players are on offense, which is the team's weak point. A good coach usually realizes that the point of the game is to win more games than to lose, and not to win a battle of wills with a player. Hogan has turned into a decent contributor for this team. But you're swimming upstream if your argument is that this team isn't better off with Mike Williams in the line up, and saving the precious roster spots for Lee Smith, Chris Gragg and possibly Goodwin. It would have been nice to have MW on the field this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Except that Marrone does have a history of playing favorites and inexplicably leaving better players on the bench. Sadly, most of those players are on offense, which is the team's weak point. A good coach usually realizes that the point of the game is to win more games than to lose, and not to win a battle of wills with a player. Hogan has turned into a decent contributor for this team. But you're swimming upstream if your argument is that this team isn't better off with Mike Williams in the line up, and saving the precious roster spots for Lee Smith, Chris Gragg and possibly Goodwin. It would have been nice to have MW on the field this week. I've never once made the argument that the team is better off wtih Hogan vs. Williams. Not even close. Seems the fanboys are too eager to equate understanding that coaches make lineup decisions at their behest with being anti-Williams. The issue I have is why would these same fanboys have to denigrate the player the coach chooses to play instead. That's ridiculous on every level, especially since that player has found ways to contribute anyway. I don't care what the issue is between Marrone and Williams. One is the coach, one is the player. There is only one viewpoint that matters in that equation. Period. Like I said, I choose to worry about the players on the field, not the ones that aren't. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 No player tells St. Doug who to play or how things will be He would rather get fired than let a player get over on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 No player tells St. Doug who to play or how things will be He would rather get fired than let a player get over on him That's the fundamental nature of the coach/player relationship. Or are you suggesting that the players should all have equal say about how to run a team? As much as I'd like to see that clusterphuck someday, I don't think we ever will and for good reason. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Period. Like I said, I choose to worry about the players on the field, not the ones that aren't. GO BILLS!!! This is the crux of my issue with the coaching staff. The play calling is what it is but the formations and packages are my major issue. I can't figure out why so many snaps are allocated to Lee Smith, Chris Gragg and Frank Summers? I can't figure out why you would use a spot on a guy to be your 5th best ST cover guy when there is a guy not dressed that has caught 8 TDs in multiple seasons? You are last in red zone offense and are playing Lee Smith in that area. Shockingly, it isn't working. I would think that a team that is last in red zone offense would ask, "what can we do to improve this?" The answer shouldn't involve Lee Smith being on the field. Even if they dress MW and only play him inside the red zone you are better off than with Larry Dean. The fact remains that you are last in RZ offense. No player tells St. Doug who to play or how things will be He would rather get fired than let a player get over on him I know that you are saying that in jest but the irony is that his ego may be his fatal flaw. That hard line mentality works when you have the resume to fall back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 This is the crux of my issue with the coaching staff. The play calling is what it is but the formations and packages are my major issue. I can't figure out why so many snaps are allocated to Lee Smith, Chris Gragg and Frank Summers? I can't figure out why you would use a spot on a guy to be your 5th best ST cover guy when there is a guy not dressed that has caught 8 TDs in multiple seasons? You are last in red zone offense and are playing Lee Smith in that area. Shockingly, it isn't working. I would think that a team that is last in red zone offense would ask, "what can we do to improve this?" The answer shouldn't involve Lee Smith being on the field. Even if they dress MW and only play him inside the red zone you are better off than with Larry Dean. The fact remains that you are last in RZ offense. These are all good questions and legitimate concerns. Can't see how anyone can argue against anything in your post. But it simply doesn't matter what the reason is; Marrone has made it clear Williams isn't a player he prefers in his lineup. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 These are all good questions and legitimate concerns. Can't see how anyone can argue against anything in your post. But it simply doesn't matter what the reason is; Marrone has made it clear Williams isn't a player he prefers in his lineup. GO BILLS!!! Ha ha, we agree on that. That is my issue with him. I would be fine not dressing Williams if what he does well isn't what this team does worst. This is a bad example but it would be different if the Bills signed MW because he was a great situational pass rusher. If that were the case I would be okay with Marrone saying "we are better off without him" because the Bills have plenty of guys filling the pass rushing duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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