NoSaint Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Let's say Poe embarassed Wood (like he had done all game) and laid out Bryce in the back field. You don't think there'd be criticism? probably - but i dont think it would be fair. and i dont think you would have seen it from most of us if the play call went: 1st and 10 -- run with a good package that doesnt telegraph hb dive but is stuffed 2nd and 9 -- pass 6-8 yards downfield to make it a manageable 3rd with a shot of scoring too unless something is wide open in the endzone and 3rd/4th and whatever take a shot at either the 1st down or endzone if you are pointing to the ones that complain about everything no matter what, sure - but i dont think most of us are in that boat. heck several have said that it was better this week in general. Edited November 11, 2014 by NoSaint
Kirby Jackson Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 I totally agree ... I am just wondering if there was more than just Marrone's stubbornness involved. There very well maybe some other factors. Either way, it is on Marrone to get it fixed.
FireChan Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Both the only two run plays in the fourth quarter resulted in a right end run by Bryce Brown for no gain, and Frank Summers left guard for one yard. My basic complaint against the coaches was for the 4th down pass against the leagues best pass defense while knowing Orton wasn't playing his best. Take the FG, and make it a one point game. Then let the strongest area of the team that has been playing great all day stop them, and have the guy who has already made a 58 yarder this year give it a shot. Its not like the Bills have the Jacksonville defense or that Detroit kicker who missed three in a game. Its like these coaches don't do whats in their own best interest, and play to their strengths. Sure I can see that. I can also see Marrone and Hackett getting blasted for being too conservative because the Chiefs got a first down and kneeled out the game.
K-9 Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 a There very well maybe some other factors. Either way, it is on Marrone to get it fixed. That's only if Marrone perceives it to be a problem. I get all the teeth gnashing by fans who are convinced we can run things better, but Marrone is the coach, Williams is the player and never the twain shall meet. Unlike last year when I had a closer ear to the locker room, I can't shed as much light but, if it's anything like some situations last year, I gotta believe Marrone feels Williams just isn't carrying himself like the professional he insists upon. And that usually entails his displeasure with what's going on in film study and practice from a maturity standpoint. Marrone has little tolerance for goofing around it seems. GO BILLS!!!
Kelly the Dog Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Not to nit pick because I mostly agree with what you are saying, but Chandler was going to be wide open, literally. Look: It's a really nice play, guys focused completely on Sammy. The protection was great. The Chiefs player is moving laterally and I don't think it's possible that he can then turn in time and catch up. Orton rushed the throw and overthrew it. I don't think that he rushed the throw at all. he can't wait when he looks at a receiver and sees him open. But look at your own snapshot. he's already throwing the ball and the guy is two yards from Chandler. That is open but not wide open. He just missed it but it wasn't just an easy pitch and catch because there was no one there. He did miss it though. When it happened I was going nuts, screaming he had to hit him. When I watched it again I thought he still missed him but he wasn't wide open and an easy throw.
thewildrabbit Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Sure I can see that. I can also see Marrone and Hackett getting blasted for being too conservative because the Chiefs got a first down and kneeled out the game. But can you see what aspect of the team was playing great all game, and which wasn't?
4merper4mer Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) a That's only if Marrone perceives it to be a problem. I get all the teeth gnashing by fans who are convinced we can run things better, but Marrone is the coach, Williams is the player and never the twain shall meet. Unlike last year when I had a closer ear to the locker room, I can't shed as much light but, if it's anything like some situations last year, I gotta believe Marrone feels Williams just isn't carrying himself like the professional he insists upon. And that usually entails his displeasure with what's going on in film study and practice from a maturity standpoint. Marrone has little tolerance for goofing around it seems. GO BILLS!!! Someone should remind Marrone that he is not Ward Cleaver and it is not 1956. He dumped Stevie for wearing funny t-shirts and now Williams is on the outs because...????...Urbik? Both of Stevie and Williams are on a completely different level than Lou Piccone who continues to start every week. He needs to try to win, not try to have the best comportment in the league. Edited November 11, 2014 by 4merper4mer
Kirby Jackson Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) a That's only if Marrone perceives it to be a problem. I get all the teeth gnashing by fans who are convinced we can run things better, but Marrone is the coach, Williams is the player and never the twain shall meet. Unlike last year when I had a closer ear to the locker room, I can't shed as much light but, if it's anything like some situations last year, I gotta believe Marrone feels Williams just isn't carrying himself like the professional he insists upon. And that usually entails his displeasure with what's going on in film study and practice from a maturity standpoint. Marrone has little tolerance for goofing around it seems. GO BILLS!!! I don't disagree with anything that you said. The point is that if you are the coach of a team that has red zone issues and you have a guy that is a known producer in the red zone you need to fix it. A concerted effort to resolve whatever issues are there is not only in the best interest of the team but in the best interest of Marrone's job security. This is neither the time, nor place to be stubborn and prove his point. This team is in a battle for a playoff spot and in many ways a battle for him to keep his job. It's easy for him to say "he's not doing his part." That answer unfortunately doesn't do anyone any good. Identify the issue, address it and resolve it. This team needs MW in the red zone. Edited November 11, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
K-9 Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 I don't think that he rushed the throw at all. he can't wait when he looks at a receiver and sees him open. But look at your own snapshot. he's already throwing the ball and the guy is two yards from Chandler. That is open but not wide open. He just missed it but it wasn't just an easy pitch and catch because there was no one there. He did miss it though. When it happened I was going nuts, screaming he had to hit him. When I watched it again I thought he still missed him but he wasn't wide open and an easy throw. And he's already beat. He was still heading up field when Chandler made his break to the end zone (I think he had responsibility for the chipping RB in the flat as well). Orton needed to throw it to the right spot and missed badly. GO BILLS!!! Someone should remind Marrone that he is not Ward Cleaver and it is not 1956. He dumped Stevie for wearing funny t-shirts and now Williams is on the outs because...????...Urbik? Both of Stevie and Williams are on a completely different level than Lou Piccone who continues to start every week. He needs to try to win, not try to have the best comportment in the league. What's stopping you? GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 I don't disagree with anything that you said. The point is that if you are the coach of a team that has red zone issues and you have a guy that is a known producer in the red zone you need to fix it. A concerted effort to resolve whatever issues are there is not only in the best interest of the team but in the best interest of Marrone's job security. This is neither the time, nor place to be stubborn and prove his point. This team is in a battle for a playoff spot and in many ways a battle for him to keep his job. It's easy for him to say "he's not doing his part." That answer unfortunately doesn't do anyone any good. Identify the issue, address it and resolce it. This team needs MW in the red zone. and quite frankly ill say again its a guy that he kicked off the Syracuse team, and reacquired here in buffalo on the cheap because he was still a handful. if its just some vague underpinning of "professionalism issues" then ive got to ask - what did he expect?
K-9 Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 I don't disagree with anything that you said. The point is that if you are the coach of a team that has red zone issues and you have a guy that is a known producer in the red zone you need to fix it. A concerted effort to resolve whatever issues are there is not only in the best interest of the team but in the best interest of Marrone's job security. This is neither the time, nor place to be stubborn and prove his point. This team is in a battle for a playoff spot and in many ways a battle for him to keep his job. It's easy for him to say "he's not doing his part." That answer unfortunately doesn't do anyone any good. Identify the issue, address it and resolve it. This team needs MW in the red zone. Again, this all presumes that Marrone shares the fans' belief that Williams is the better alternative but is just being defiant in his stubbornness. Is Marrone cutting off his nose to spite his face or is he convinced that he stands a better chance with who he's putting in the lineup, top to bottom, in support of all three phases vs. the one facet of red zone offense? I honestly don't know. Hackett's schemes routinely have multiple receivers running open and both our QBs have been missing them with regularity this season. Especially in the red zone. Better throws by Orton in that area the other day and nobody is missing Williams all that much. GO BILLS!!! and quite frankly ill say again its a guy that he kicked off the Syracuse team, and reacquired here in buffalo on the cheap because he was still a handful. if its just some vague underpinning of "professionalism issues" then ive got to ask - what did he expect? That's a fair question. Not the first time a coach and player have had personality clashes. Not the last, either. Just like in any corporate structure. But Williams can't win vs. the HC. Simple as that. GO BILLS!!!
Kirby Jackson Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Again, this all presumes that Marrone shares the fans' belief that Williams is the better alternative but is just being defiant in his stubbornness. Is Marrone cutting off his nose to spite his face or is he convinced that he stands a better chance with who he's putting in the lineup, top to bottom, in support of all three phases vs. the one facet of red zone offense? I honestly don't know. Hackett's schemes routinely have multiple receivers running open and both our QBs have been missing them with regularity this season. Especially in the red zone. Better throws by Orton in that area the other day and nobody is missing Williams all that much. GO BILLS!!! Their red zone numbers all year indicate a problem. If Marrone believes that the team is better off with Lee Smith, Chris Gragg and Larry Dean on game days than Mike Williams I don't have much faith in him. Again, I don't think that Mike Williams is perfect but it comes back to opportunity cost. If all that the Bills need to do to dress MW is sit one of those guys than it is a no brainer IMO. I felt the same way about Bryce Brown prior to him finally playing.
NoSaint Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 That's a fair question. Not the first time a coach and player have had personality clashes. Not the last, either. Just like in any corporate structure. But Williams can't win vs. the HC. Simple as that. GO BILLS!!! ill agree - its just surprising to see it playing out given their history. youd think he wouldve told whaley not to touch him if it was going to be a short leash like this. ill also say KtD referencing that he hasnt had the impression that its something huge behind the scenes. we dont know what it is, but something isnt adding up quite right still.
CountDorkula Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Their red zone numbers all year indicate a problem. If Marrone believes that the team is better off with Lee Smith, Chris Gragg and Larry Dean on game days than Mike Williams I don't have much faith in him. Again, I don't think that Mike Williams is perfect but it comes back to opportunity cost. If all that the Bills need to do to dress MW is sit one of those guys than it is a no brainer IMO. I felt the same way about Bryce Brown prior to him finally playing. Here is what I don't get you dress a KO Specialist to kick it out of the endzone 3-4 times a game. Larry Dean is active to play strictly on ST and do what exactly then? Gragg needs to get more reps IMO. Edited November 11, 2014 by CountDorkula
FireChan Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Again, this all presumes that Marrone shares the fans' belief that Williams is the better alternative but is just being defiant in his stubbornness. Is Marrone cutting off his nose to spite his face or is he convinced that he stands a better chance with who he's putting in the lineup, top to bottom, in support of all three phases vs. the one facet of red zone offense? I honestly don't know. Hackett's schemes routinely have multiple receivers running open and both our QBs have been missing them with regularity this season. Especially in the red zone. Better throws by Orton in that area the other day and nobody is missing Williams all that much. GO BILLS!!! That's a fair question. Not the first time a coach and player have had personality clashes. Not the last, either. Just like in any corporate structure. But Williams can't win vs. the HC. Simple as that. GO BILLS!!! Take it one strep further. One better throw.
CountDorkula Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Take it one strep further. One better throw. I would still question why MW is not active. He can make plays. This offense is in need of people who can do that.
K-9 Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Their red zone numbers all year indicate a problem. If Marrone believes that the team is better off with Lee Smith, Chris Gragg and Larry Dean on game days than Mike Williams I don't have much faith in him. Again, I don't think that Mike Williams is perfect but it comes back to opportunity cost. If all that the Bills need to do to dress MW is sit one of those guys than it is a no brainer IMO. I felt the same way about Bryce Brown prior to him finally playing. Absolutely. But when I look at the gist of the red zone problems, it comes down to our poor QB execution more than anything else. Schematically, it can't be argued that Hackett's designs are NOT getting guys open; they are. And with astounding regularity and it's usually more than one guy to boot. Again, I get the fans' teeth gnashing but I find it hard to be so cynical that Marrone is just being stubborn rather than dressing personnel that best serves HIS perceived requirements for all three phases. Especially special teams. We have had exponential improvement in that area and I think that reflects Marrone's commitment to that phase. GO BILLS!!!
Wayne Cubed Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 I would still question why MW is not active. He can make plays. This offense is in need of people who can do that. Mike Williams can make all the plays he wants. Orton has to throw him an accurate ball. It's been pointed out a few times. Recievers were open. Orton missed them. Having Mike Williams active doesn't necessarily fix that.
CountDorkula Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Mike Williams can make all the plays he wants. Orton has to throw him an accurate ball. It's been pointed out a few times. Recievers were open. Orton missed them. Having Mike Williams active doesn't necessarily fix that. No it does not, but it does give Orton another option to throw the ball too throughout an entire game, which given the opportunity can help change the outcome. Plus now it seems like a wasted draft pick.
Kelly the Dog Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Absolutely. But when I look at the gist of the red zone problems, it comes down to our poor QB execution more than anything else. Schematically, it can't be argued that Hackett's designs are NOT getting guys open; they are. And with astounding regularity and it's usually more than one guy to boot. Again, I get the fans' teeth gnashing but I find it hard to be so cynical that Marrone is just being stubborn rather than dressing personnel that best serves HIS perceived requirements for all three phases. Especially special teams. We have had exponential improvement in that area and I think that reflects Marrone's commitment to that phase. GO BILLS!!! Who would you activate? Mike Williams or Larry Dean.
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