Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 Good article on chan gailey's offense. Very simple stuff--but he used formations to create disguise. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/6/21/3105714/buffalo-bills-offense-chan-gailey-spread
GG Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 First drive, 1st Q 1-1-NYJ 1 (9:20) 25-J.Charles up the middle to NYJ 1 for no gain (93-K.Ellis). 2-1-NYJ 1 (8:43) 25-J.Charles up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. Second drive, 1st Q 1-10-NYJ 32 (6:04) 25-J.Charles left end to NYJ 21 for 11 yards (91-S.Richardson). 1-10-NYJ 21 (5:23) 25-J.Charles right guard to NYJ 22 for -1 yards (96-M.Wilkerson). Third drive, 2nd Q 1-10-KC 47 (12:40) 25-J.Charles right guard to NYJ 48 for 5 yards (94-D.Harrison) 2-5-NYJ 48 (11:55) 25-J.Charles left tackle to NYJ 45 for 3 yards (37-J.Jarrett). Sixth drive, 4th Q. 1-10-KC 41 (6:35) 25-J.Charles left end to KC 42 for 1 yard (94-D.Harrison). 2-9-KC 42 (5:52) 25-J.Charles up the middle to KC 45 for 3 yards (96-M.Wilkerson). 4 times. Same as Hackett. Seems they got a little more aggressive when the Jets got within 11, then went back to it when they were up 14. Sound familiar? Not quite. The second example is successive 1st downs, not a 1st and 2nd down situation. And in the first one, you wouldn't get too many arguments over running Jamaal Charles twice in a row at the one. So, looking at the true comparison of how Reid called the game when it was still competitive vs. Hackett, there really is no comparison. Which begs the question of why you brought up an argument that directly contradicts your point?
PolishDave Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 The versatility borne of this demand of Gailey's allows the team flexibility in running several different formations with the same personnel group. This helps them better disguise their intentions, as Gailey's offense is largely a "bread and butter" offense - they run what they're good at, try a few new things once in a while, and eliminate what they're not good at. His offense is simple in its execution, but is also constantly evolving. Best sentence in that article. Wish the Bills did more of that.
FireChan Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Not quite. The second example is successive 1st downs, not a 1st and 2nd down situation. And in the first one, you wouldn't get too many arguments over running Jamaal Charles twice in a row at the one. So, looking at the true comparison of how Reid called the game when it was still competitive vs. Hackett, there really is no comparison. Which begs the question of why you brought up an argument that directly contradicts your point? Actually, we scored on one of Hackett's RRP as well. Which makes it 3 and 3. Edited November 3, 2014 by FireChan
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 [/size][/font][/color] Best sentence in that article. Wish the Bills did more of that. We actually do the very opposite.
FireChan Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 We actually do the very opposite. Gailey's offense got figured out midway through the season, and dropped about 15 places. Was it really evolving?
NoSaint Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 FC- I've got to ask, what would you think is something an OC could do to better our below average output? Is there nothing that could help short of new guards?
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 Gailey's offense got figured out midway through the season, and dropped about 15 places. Was it really evolving? I don't want to turn this into a "chan is great" thread (since I too felt he needed to go after 2012 season), but the guy has a good track record as an offensive mind, including working with crappy talent and being flexible and creative. He made guys like kordell Stewart, jay Fiedler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyler thigpen look good. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Players-excited-by-Gaileys-track-record/c1a0a824-9774-430b-ba3e-967067da34bf The thing that chan had and Hackett doesn't is experience-- I am sure you figure out how to be more flexible and creative when you've been doing it for 20 years.
Numark3 Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 I don't want to turn this into a "chan is great" thread (since I too felt he needed to go after 2012 season), but the guy has a good track record as an offensive mind, including working with crappy talent and being flexible and creative. He made guys like kordell Stewart, jay Fiedler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyler thigpen look good. http://www.buffalobi...3e-967067da34bf The thing that chan had and Hackett doesn't is experience-- I am sure you figure out how to be more flexible and creative when you've been doing it for 20 years. Chan had to go, but no doubt I would take him as our OC right now
FireChan Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 FC- I've got to ask, what would you think is something an OC could do to better our below average output? Is there nothing that could help short of new guards? Honestly, I don't know. A part of me thinks that nothing will really get us to our full potential until the O-line improves. A part of me also thinks that Marrone has his philosophy and Hackett is instructed to follow it. I have never believed that an OC with no NFL playcalling experience has full autonomy. Barring those two things, if I was Hackett, I'd transition our offense to focusing on short/medium throws. 3-5 yard passes on first or second down. All the time. On second-and-five, you can pretty much do anything. Run, pass, or playaction. Now, the major drawback with that is that defense will sit on the shorter routes, and you may end up with second-and-ten. But with a vet like Orton, I'd have the confidence in him recognizing that the short throw is unavailable, and checking into a draw or dialing up something deep. But with this offense, I believe that would play to our strengths. Between Sammy, Woods, Hogan and Chandler, one should be able to get open on a slant, drag or medium in route. This both eliminates our need for protection for long periods of time, as well as keeping defenses honest. Now. Let me go one step further. In order for a transition like this to happen, our offensive line still needs to play better than they have been. Orton was getting clobbered against the Jets every time he dropped back. It wasn't even possible for most short routes to develop. But after the bye week, I expect the Bills to be a little more pass-heavy. The pieces are there and they can finally completely dismantle the horror show of an offense that was put in place to protect EJ. I'm not worried even a little bit. I don't want to turn this into a "chan is great" thread (since I too felt he needed to go after 2012 season), but the guy has a good track record as an offensive mind, including working with crappy talent and being flexible and creative. He made guys like kordell Stewart, jay Fiedler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyler thigpen look good. http://www.buffalobi...3e-967067da34bf The thing that chan had and Hackett doesn't is experience-- I am sure you figure out how to be more flexible and creative when you've been doing it for 20 years. Or do you become more set in your ways? I have no love for Chan, as you can imagine, he would've benefited from being more like Marrone/Hackett.
Mr. WEO Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) I don't want to turn this into a "chan is great" thread (since I too felt he needed to go after 2012 season), but the guy has a good track record as an offensive mind, including working with crappy talent and being flexible and creative. He made guys like kordell Stewart, jay Fiedler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyler thigpen look good. http://www.buffalobi...3e-967067da34bf The thing that chan had and Hackett doesn't is experience-- I am sure you figure out how to be more flexible and creative when you've been doing it for 20 years. Chan was roundly thrashed by the end right here on this site for being too rigid in his game plan ("5 wide", etc). Putting square pegs in round holes... Now there is this misty-eyed hagiography which proves people have short memories. His offenses were, on the whole, at or below average. Whatever one's thoughts on Hackett (he did his best work this week, I think), there is no real reason to pine for 'ol Chan. Even Jerry Jones didn't re-hire him when he had the opportunity... Edited November 3, 2014 by Mr. WEO
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 Chan was roundly thrashed by the end right here on this site for being too rigid in his game plan ("5 wide", etc). Putting square pegs in round holes... Now there is this misty-eyed hagiography which proves people have short memories. His offenses were, on the whole, at or below average. Whatever one's thoughts on Hackett (he did his best work this week, I think), there is no real reason to pine for 'ol Chan. Even Jerry Jones didn't re-hire him when he had the opportunity... You see what Hackett has driven us to??!!
TheFunPolice Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 Texans fans with Fitzpatrick at quarterback Sound exactly like Bills fans did with Fitzpatrick at quarterback
GG Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Actually, we scored on one of Hackett's RRP as well. Which makes it 3 and 3. That's not the point. You said Reid called the same game plan that Hackett did. Yet, Reid called for a run on 1st & 2nd down once in the first half and that was in the second quarter. I'm throwing out the series at the goal line because those don't call for regular plays. Hackett called 2 successive 1st & 2nd down runs immediately after Bills got a turnover, and Bills had to punt. Bills first three possessions called for a run on 1st & 2nd downs. They had 1st & 2nd down runs on 4 first half possessions, so I have no idea of how you're equating it to Reid's playcalling. It's kind of silly to bring up statistics of a game that everyone saw. Edited November 3, 2014 by GG
FireChan Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 That's not the point. You said Reid called the same game plan that Hackett did. Yet, Reid called for a run on 1st & 2nd down once in the first half and that was in the second quarter. I'm throwing out the series at the goal line because those don't call for regular plays. Hackett called 2 successive 1st & 2nd down runs immediately after Bills got a turnover, and Bills had to punt. Bills first three possessions called for a run on 1st & 2nd downs. They had 1st & 2nd down runs on 4 first half possessions, so I have no idea of how you're equating it to Reid's playcalling. It's kind of silly to bring up statistics of a game that everyone saw. I'll be honest, I misremembered the Chiefs game. I could've sworn that they ran a lot more consecutively. That damn Alex Smith and his 5 yard passes. Still, I would contend that Reid played conservatively in their own fashion, with more short throws than Hackett did. I have no doubt that they could've put up more points on the Jets if they played more aggressively.
GG Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) I'll be honest, I misremembered the Chiefs game. I could've sworn that they ran a lot more consecutively. That damn Alex Smith and his 5 yard passes. Still, I would contend that Reid played conservatively in their own fashion, with more short throws than Hackett did. I have no doubt that they could've put up more points on the Jets if they played more aggressively. That's the whole f'ng point. That simple quick five yard pass that works as well as a run and takes pressure off the QB. I think you're starting to get the picture. Edited November 3, 2014 by GG
Kirby Jackson Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 I think that part of the reason people are worried about Hackett is that the margin for error is really small over the next month. The Bills are a 2 point underdog to KC, Miami is playing great and Cleveland is 5-3 (the Jets are in there as well). If the Bills want to be contenders they have to win at least 3 of those 4. They can't afford to leave points on the field and I feel strongly that happened last week. If they get beat, they get beat but I hope that it's not because they didn't play their game. That's what the game plan was against New England and it doesn't work. Do what you do well and hope that it's good enough. Don't try to fool them by featuring the TEs and Hogan. That is what teams like New England do. When they play big games they go to Gronk and Edleman constantly. They don't try to fool everyone by pounding Jonas Gray between the tackles because Denver won't see it coming.
FireChan Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) That's the whole f'ng point. That simple quick five yard pass that works as well as a run and takes pressure off the QB. I think you're starting to get the picture. Many were arguing that Hackett shouldn't have played conservatively. That was my point when I asked if Reid was fired yet for not stepping on the Jets throat. I think that part of the reason people are worried about Hackett is that the margin for error is really small over the next month. The Bills are a 2 point underdog to KC, Miami is playing great and Cleveland is 5-3 (the Jets are in there as well). If the Bills want to be contenders they have to win at least 3 of those 4. They can't afford to leave points on the field and I feel strongly that happened last week. If they get beat, they get beat but I hope that it's not because they didn't play their game. That's what the game plan was against New England and it doesn't work. Do what you do well and hope that it's good enough. Don't try to fool them by featuring the TEs and Hogan. That is what teams like New England do. When they play big games they go to Gronk and Edleman constantly. They don't try to fool everyone by pounding Jonas Gray between the tackles because Denver won't see it coming. While I get your point to involve our best players, I seem to remember NE going power-run with Blount in the playoffs, which gave Indy fits. But seriously, if we're to lose, I wanna see us throw everything and the kitchen sink at opposing teams as well. Edited November 3, 2014 by FireChan
thewildrabbit Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 I don't want to turn this into a "chan is great" thread (since I too felt he needed to go after 2012 season), but the guy has a good track record as an offensive mind, including working with crappy talent and being flexible and creative. He made guys like kordell Stewart, jay Fiedler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyler thigpen look good. http://www.buffalobi...3e-967067da34bf The thing that chan had and Hackett doesn't is experience-- I am sure you figure out how to be more flexible and creative when you've been doing it for 20 years. The thing is Gailey knew how to setup an offense that would maximize his players strengths vs their weakness. I think he realized that if he tried to run the ball all the time he would have been stuffed a lot because of the poor players on that line, and he even had Levitre. Yea, I admit i hated Gailey because he thought Fitz was Tom Brady, and kept calling for 40 passes a game instead of even trying to setup a dominate pound the rock offense. Gailey kept trying to win with smoke & mirrors because all he had in his passing offense when he went with 4-5 WR sets was WR Stevie Johnson. The rest of the WR's were all scrubs and now gone from the roster. He realized the limitations of his O line, and QB, receivers and did the best he could with what he had. I didn't like Gailey the head coach trying to run the entire team and offense at the same time, and I currently think he is one of those guys better suited to just being an OC, running the offense, and calling offensive plays. Alas, it might even be too late for Gailey to help with the current state of the OG's & RB's. I just gotta wonder what Gailey could do with a QB like Orton who is far better then Fitz in mid to deep accuracy, and with a legit WR corp with a budding superstar WR in Sammy.
Fixxxer Posted November 3, 2014 Posted November 3, 2014 I don't want to turn this into a "chan is great" thread (since I too felt he needed to go after 2012 season), but the guy has a good track record as an offensive mind, including working with crappy talent and being flexible and creative. He made guys like kordell Stewart, jay Fiedler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyler thigpen look good. http://www.buffalobi...3e-967067da34bf The thing that chan had and Hackett doesn't is experience-- I am sure you figure out how to be more flexible and creative when you've been doing it for 20 years. Chan's problem was just that, he wanted to win with JAGs. When given the chance of improve on the position he refused. He loved to coach the no name brigade we had on offense and was an utter failure. I rather be conservative with talent than innovative without it.
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