Fire Hackett

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

 

 

Is it laughable because it doesn't match your opinion. The Bills ran a version of run, run, pass on 1st, 2nd, 3rd down 7 times in the Jest game. The Chargers ran a version of run, run, pass on 1st, 2nd, 3rd down.... wait for it.... 7 times in the Bills game. The Chargers also ran a run, run, run 2 times. I'd call that pretty predictable. And Rivers only went deep once, which was incomplete. He threw short on every single pass in the 2nd half except that one deep one.

 

Oh and the Chargers also didn't pick up a first down the entire 4th quarter with 4 possesions. The Bills had 5 possessions in the 4th quarter and were only down 10 pts. Why didn't the Chargers step on their throat? Why did they do the predictable run, run, pass?

 

Perception isn't reality sometimes, no?

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400554195&period=3

 

Good points, bro. I will admit I was wrong.

 

I will say, however, that it is a lot easier to go run-run-pass when you have a QB like Rivers, with like a 80% completion rate.

[#34fan]

To my untrained eye, Chan made chicken salad out of chicken s***.

 

Our WR depth under Gailey consisted of: Ruvell Martin, Aiken, Hagan, Donald Jones, David Nelson, N. Roosevelt, Easely, TJ Graham, Brad Smith and an unknown Stevie Johnson (in 2010). Gailey made Stevie into a 1,000yd WR. Gailey developed Chandler. He turned Ryan Fitzpatrick from a nobody into a 3,500 - 3800 yd passer. He eventually found the formula and made CJ Spiller into one of the most dynamic RB's in the NFL. Also, there are still 5 OL from the Gailey era that are on this roster - so if Marrone can't figure it out soon enough with the OL situation, maybe he can put his ego aside and just mimic his predecessor.

 

With our current offense Gailey would make lightning bolts come out of his ars.

 

Like others mentioned however, Gailey was never able to bring in a D-coordinator worth a damn and those 2010 - 2012 Bills teams had epically bad defenses that the offense was simply never able to overcome. That's what did him in. IMO Gailey was the best offensive mind we've had in Buffalo in a long, long time.

 

Gailey's biggest mistake was hitching his wagon to the Fitz train which of course never left the station. Marrone is making a similar mistake with NateHackett... Hackett simply can't coordinate at the pro level.

 

Drawing up two or three good plays in a half doesn't compensate for a multitude of three-and-outs, sacks, and otherwise wasted possessions.

 

Can Hackett get better? -Anything's possible I guess.... What the the offense does vs. KC (with two weeks to prepare) will say alot... Our D has their work cut ot for them... Kelce, Davis, and Charles could run amok without some serious run support from The O....

[Buffalo Barbarian]

guess I hit a nerve here, did not expect this much debate.

[thewildrabbit]

Good points, bro. I will admit I was wrong.

 

I will say, however, that it is a lot easier to go run-run-pass when you have a QB like Rivers, with like a 80% completion rate.

and just because the run game didn't work against Buffalo with their better then average run defense doesn't mean it was wrong to keep trying. The Chargers setup their play action passing with so much running, and their run game actually works against other teams...that is, when they aren't scraping the waiver wire for players because their starters are out injured.

[Donald Duck]

guess I hit a nerve here, did not expect this much debate.

 

Good thread, Gives fans a chance to express their desires for a more explosive Offense. I mean who wouldn't want an Offense like Manning and the Bronco's, scoring points is what its all about right?

 

wrong...

 

...Defense wins Championships...

Edited October 30, 2014 by Donald Duck

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Good thread, Gives fans a chance to express their desires for a more explosive Offense. I mean who wouldn't want an Offense like Manning and the Bronco's, scoring points is what its all about right?

 

wrong...

 

...Defense wins Championships...

 

both win championships

[Fan in San Diego]

Sorry to chime in late. I finally watched the Jets game. I was specifically looking for the much debated run run pass. I have to say Hackett called a good game. When he did go run run pass (3 times i think) it was to kill clock to close out the half. When the line got no push he was forced to throw. He mixed it up well IMHO.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Sorry to chime in late. I finally watched the Jets game. I was specifically looking for the much debated run run pass. I have to say Hackett called a good game. When he did go run run pass (3 times i think) it was to kill clock to close out the half. When the line got no push he was forced to throw. He mixed it up well IMHO.

 

better rewatch it

[thewildrabbit]

Sorry to chime in late. I finally watched the Jets game. I was specifically looking for the much debated run run pass. I have to say Hackett called a good game. When he did go run run pass (3 times i think) it was to kill clock to close out the half. When the line got no push he was forced to throw. He mixed it up well IMHO.

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT 13:22 1 03:45 BUF 36 7 64 Touchdown 08:33 1 01:21 NYJ 48 3 -1 Punt 06:13 1 01:19 50 3 5 Punt 04:40 1 00:04 NYJ 1 1 1 Touchdown 14:22 2 02:32 BUF 8 5 92 Touchdown 10:29 2 00:56 BUF 37 3 4 Punt 07:34 2 01:18 NYJ 31 4 -4 Field Goal 01:50 2 01:17 BUF 20 3 -4 Punt 15:00 3 02:36 BUF 20 3 9 Punt 10:10 3 01:39 NYJ 27 4 9 Field Goal 07:12 3 02:02 NYJ 44 3 3 Punt 02:33 3 01:22 NYJ 10 4 -1 Field Goal 00:16 3 01:05 NYJ 14 3 14 Touchdown 12:07 4 02:21 BUF 29 4 71 Touchdown 04:06 4 04:06 BUF 5 6 24 End of Game

 

The Bolded, and underlined show the Bills got the ball in Jets territory 7 times, and managed 23 points. Just look at the field position the Bills were given all game. One of those TD's was an int return to the Jets one yard line.

 

They had starts at the

Jets 48, punt.

Jets one, TD.

Jets 31, FG.

Jets 27, FG.

Jets 44, punt.

Jets 10 FG.

Jets 14 TD.

 

Without those 6 turnover I gotta wonder what the score would have been. Perhaps a loss 23-20? Then look at the yards in the drives. 64 -1, 5, 1, 92, 4, -4, -4, 9, 9, 3, -1, 14, 71. Talk about pathetic! The Bills had 4 series where they lost yardage!

 

So, out of 13 drive starts the Bills had only three successful long drives, and two that were actually big plays by Sammy in his 3 receptions for 157 yards, and a TD.

 

Basically you could say the Bills offense laid a big turd in MetLife stadium, and it was the defense & defensive turnovers, long bombs from Orton to Sammy that won it

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=400554298

[NoSaint]

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT 13:22 1 03:45 BUF 36 7 64 Touchdown 08:33 1 01:21 NYJ 48 3 -1 Punt 06:13 1 01:19 50 3 5 Punt 04:40 1 00:04 NYJ 1 1 1 Touchdown 14:22 2 02:32 BUF 8 5 92 Touchdown 10:29 2 00:56 BUF 37 3 4 Punt 07:34 2 01:18 NYJ 31 4 -4 Field Goal 01:50 2 01:17 BUF 20 3 -4 Punt 15:00 3 02:36 BUF 20 3 9 Punt 10:10 3 01:39 NYJ 27 4 9 Field Goal 07:12 3 02:02 NYJ 44 3 3 Punt 02:33 3 01:22 NYJ 10 4 -1 Field Goal 00:16 3 01:05 NYJ 14 3 14 Touchdown 12:07 4 02:21 BUF 29 4 71 Touchdown 04:06 4 04:06 BUF 5 6 24 End of Game

 

The Bolded, and underlined show the Bills got the ball in Jets territory 7 times, and managed 23 points. Just look at the field position the Bills were given all game. One of those TD's was an int return to the Jets one yard line.

 

They had starts at the

Jets 48, punt.

Jets one, TD.

Jets 31, FG.

Jets 27, FG.

Jets 44, punt.

Jets 10 FG.

Jets 14 TD.

 

Without those 6 turnover I gotta wonder what the score would have been. Perhaps a loss 23-20? Then look at the yards in the drives. 64 -1, 5, 1, 92, 4, -4, -4, 9, 9, 3, -1, 14, 71. Talk about pathetic! The Bills had 4 series where they lost yardage!

 

So, out of 13 drive starts the Bills had only three successful long drives, and two that were actually big plays by Sammy in his 3 receptions for 157 yards, and a TD.

 

Basically you could say the Bills offense laid a big turd in MetLife stadium, and it was the defense & defensive turnovers, long bombs from Orton to Sammy that won it

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=400554298

 

Yup- that first drive was good and while I love seeing the two big plays, there wasnt much in showing ability to convert a basic first down.

[Fan in San Diego]

Alright I went back to game rewind and wrote all the plays. see below

 

Q1

 

1st possession

 

1. B. Brown off right tackles to Buf 42 for 6 yards

2. A. Dixon up the middle for 1 yard to Buf 43 for 1 yard

3. Orton pass incomplete short right to Watkins Penalty gives 1st down

4. Orton shotgun scrambles Out of Bounds for 7 yards at NY 45

5. Orton pass short right to L. Smith for 4 yards

6. Orton pass deep left to Woods to NYJ 16 for 25 yards

7. Orton sacked in the shotgun loss of 6 yards

8. Orton Shotgun deep right to woods for Touchdown

 

2 run plays 6 pass plays

 

2nd Possession

 

1. A. Dixon left for 1 yard

2. Orton pass left for 3 yards to woods

3. Orton pass left to Watkins incomplete

4. Punt

 

1 run play 2 pass plays

 

 

3rd Possession

 

1. Brown run right for 3 yards

2. Brown run left for 2 yards

3. Orton incomplete pass to Watkins

4. Punt

 

2 runs 1 pass

 

4th possession

 

1. Orton pass to L. Smith Touchdown

2. Extra point

3. Kickoff

 

0 runs 1 pass play

 

2nd Qtr

 

1st Possession

 

1. Orton incomplete pass deep right to Watkins

2. Dixon right to Buff 11 for 3 yards

3. Summers up the middle for Touchdown

4. Extra Point

5. Kickoff

 

2 runs 1 pass

 

2nd Possession

 

1. Dixon up the middle to Buf 41 for 4 yards

2. Orton pass incomplete short right to Brown

3. Orton shotgun pass incomplete short right to Chandler

4. Punt

 

1 run 2 passes

 

3rd Possession

 

1. Dixon left for 1 yard

2. Brown up the middle for 5 yards

3. Orton shotgun pass incomplete short left to Brown

4. Field Goal is good

5. Kickoff for 65 yards

 

2 runs 1 pass

 

4th Possession

 

1. Shotgun Dixon up the middle for 1 yard

2. Orton shotgun sacked loss 8 yards

3. Shotgun Dixon left for 3 yards

4. Punt

 

3rd Qtr

 

1st Possession

 

1. Orton sacked for loss of 6

2. Dixon right for 1 yard

3. Orton shotgun pass left to Hogan for 14 yards

4. Punt

 

1 run 2 passes

 

2nd Possession

 

1. Shotgun Brown left for 4 yards

2. Shotgun Brown left for -2 yards

3. False start

4. Orton shotgun pass left for 12 yards to Watkins

5. Field goal

6. Kickoff

 

2 runs 1 pass

 

3rd Possession

 

1. Dixon left for 5 yards

2. Dixon left for 3 yards

3. Orton shotgun sacked

4 Punt

 

2 runs 1 pass

 

4th Possession

 

1. Dixon up the middle for 1 yard

2. Dixon right for -2 yards

3. Orton shotgun incomplete to Brown

4. field Goal

5. Kick off

 

2 runs 1 pass

 

5th Possession

 

1. Dixon right for 4 yards

 

4th Qtr

 

2. Dixon right for -2 yards

3. Orton pass short middle to Chandler for TD

4. Extra point

5. Kickoff

 

2 runs 1 pass

 

1st Possession

 

1. Dixon middle for -2 yards

2. Dixon left for 0 yards Penalty on NY for 15 yards

3. Brown left for 7 yards

4. Brown left for no gain. Penalty Buf 10 yards

5. Orton pass short left to Watkins for Touchdown

6. Extra point no good

7. Kick off

 

2nd Possession

 

1. Dixon right tackle for 5 yards

2. Dixon up the middle for 4 yards

3. Penalty NY 1st down

4. Dixon right for 4 yards

Two minute warning

5. Dixon up the middle for 3 yards

6. Dixon right for 3 yards

7. Orton kneels to end game

 

8 out of the 15 possessions were run run pass. I would argue 2 or 3 of those possessions were correct to eat clock.

Dixon is the more productive runner. We miss Freddy and CJ.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Alright I went back to game rewind and wrote all the plays. see below

 

8 out of the 15 possessions were run run pass. I would argue 2 or 3 of those possessions were correct to eat clock.

Dixon is the more productive runner. We miss Freddy and CJ.

+1

[thewildrabbit]

Alright I went back to game rewind and wrote all the plays. see below

 

8 out of the 15 possessions were run run pass. I would argue 2 or 3 of those possessions were correct to eat clock.

Dixon is the more productive runner. We miss Freddy and CJ.

What we miss is a competent game planner, play caller. The Bill even with CJ & Fredex still ran the ball up the middle 68% of the time, and last year it was 72%.

 

The play calling is mundane, predictable, and ineffective, and it has been since week two! If not for Orton who selecting the plays he wants to run in the film room, sets the line protections, reads the defense, and changes the called play if need be. Like I said, if not for Kyle Orton this team would be in serious trouble on offense.

[Fixxxer]

What we miss is a competent game planner, play caller. The Bill even with CJ & Fredex still ran the ball up the middle 68% of the time, and last year it was 72%.

 

The play calling is mundane, predictable, and ineffective, and it has been since week two! If not for Orton who selecting the plays he wants to run in the film room, sets the line protections, reads the defense, and changes the called play if need be. Like I said, if not for Kyle Orton this team would be in serious trouble on offense.

 

I see there are no bye weeks for you.......

[Numark3]

There is no one arguing whether or not the plays were effective in gaining yards/first downs, they weren't. The argument is if it was smart to be conservative and call ineffective plays, or was this bad play calling? It's a matter of opinion, so there isn't a right answer.

 

 

We are a bottom 10 team team when it comes to points a game, yards a game, and 3rd down conversion. So yea... (and the injury excuse is horse crap. This is team that has brought in players like sammy watkins, robert woods, mike williams the past few years. Every game we have had freddy but one. IF an offensive coordinator cannot gameplan around injuries and try to minimize the impact of weaknesses, then I don't know what he is getting paid to do. Our interior offensive line sucks? Do your job and figure out a way to minimize the effect.....but he likes to run up the middle with no success so conclude what you will)

Edited November 2, 2014 by Crayola64

[FireChan]

There is no one arguing whether or not the plays were effective in gaining yards/first downs, they weren't. The argument is if it was smart to be conservative and call ineffective plays, or was this bad play calling? It's a matter of opinion, so there isn't a right answer.

 

 

We are a bottom 10 team team when it comes to points a game, yards a game, and 3rd down conversion. So yea... (and the injury excuse is horse crap. This is team that has brought in players like sammy watkins, robert woods, mike williams the past few years. Every game we have had freddy but one. IF an offensive coordinator cannot gameplan around injuries and try to minimize the impact of weaknesses, then I don't know what he is getting paid to do. Our interior offensive line sucks? Do your job and figure out a way to minimize the effect.....but he likes to run up the middle with no success so conclude what you will)

 

I love this. Name a run play that will minimize our offensive line's poor play. You can't.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I love this. Name a run play that will minimize our offensive line's poor play. You can't.

Well a jet sweep could do this. There have been zero jet sweeps this season by my recollection.

 

When you aren't good at run blocking up front, you don't play 2 TEs and Frank Summers and try to outmuscle people. You spread the field and try to open up space that way. That was one thing that Gailey did effectively. Instead of you adding big guys that aren't good (like Lee Smith) you add small guys so that they take LBs off the field.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[FireChan]

Well a jet sweep could do this. There have been zero jet sweeps this season by my recollection.

 

When you aren't good at run blocking up front, you don't play 2 TEs and Frank Summers and try to outmuscle people. You spread the field and try to open up space that way. That was one thing that Gailey did effectively. Instead of you adding big guys that aren't good (like Lee Smith) you add small guys so that they take LBs off the field.

 

You can't run jet sweeps regularly.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

You can't run jet sweeps regularly.

You could run one though -no?

[Numark3]

I love this. Name a run play that will minimize our offensive line's poor play. You can't.

 

Variety & spread the offense more out in the passing game. So by your train of thought, our offensive coordinator should say "hey we are a bottom 10 offense because we have a bad offensive line and I deserve no blame." Again this a professional, shouldn't it be his job to try and figure this question out? If we have a bottom 10 offense (again?), at what point is the person in charge of the offense held liable?

 

last year we were the 3rd worst team in the league on yards per play. Points a game, bottom 10. yards a game? not bottom 10 but 19th in the nfl. And just like this year, we were a bottom 5 team on 3rd down conversion.

 

 

So again, I don't think last weeks game should be the focus point on why we have a bad offensive coordinator. I think it should be the results of the last 24 games. We have a bottom offense, we don't score a lot of points, we don't get a lot of yards, we are laughable on 3rd down. Again, when are people allowed to B word about the person in charge of the offense?

Edited November 2, 2014 by Crayola64