TheFunPolice Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 You know what I love about pro football? You either succeed or you don't. In the end, nobody really cares about the "yeah butts" New England* is supposedly the greatest dynasty ever created, and they won Super Bowls against the Eagles, Rams, and Panthers by stealing signals and kicking last minute field goals. People like me who loathe them with a passion just sound petty and small when we try to minimize what they accomplished. Scoreboard. All we can do is kiss the rings. Now Marrone hasn't accomplished anything near that. But his methods seems to be paying dividends and the team has won 5/8 this year and went 2-2 with a QB who cannot play the position.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 We also need to be able to get critical stops on defense, which we certainly didn't do in the Patriots' game. And that's why people are pissed off at the play calling. The defense and Detroit's kicker won us the game. The defense was the reason we were able to beat a bad Vikes team that we could only score 10 points against for 59 minutes. We are asking way too much from our defense. They will break down if we go 7 series in a row without a 1st down.
NoSaint Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 You know what I love about pro football? You either succeed or you don't. In the end, nobody really cares about the "yeah butts" New England* is supposedly the greatest dynasty ever created, and they won Super Bowls against the Eagles, Rams, and Panthers by stealing signals and kicking last minute field goals. People like me who loathe them with a passion just sound petty and small when we try to minimize what they accomplished. Scoreboard. All we can do is kiss the rings. Now Marrone hasn't accomplished anything near that. But his methods seems to be paying dividends and the team has won 5/8 this year and went 2-2 with a QB who cannot play the position. the guy has a .500 record in the big east, is 11-13 as a pro, but just closed a "quarter season" stretch with a winning record for the first time. going 3-1 in 4 games is great for us- but a bit early to be playing kiss the ring.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Keep in mind there will be NO "explanations" for Hackett. He should have been INNOVATIVE and CREATIVE when starting 4 different QBs in his 24 games to date as OC: Tuel, Manuel, Lewis, and now Orton. 3 of those guys do not belong as NFL starting QBs. 1 signed on Labor Day weekend. Meanwhile, Chan "had his guy" and would allow absolutely ZERO competition for him. One way to look at it is that Chan was an offensive guru who had an exciting innovative offense. That's how many Bills fans feel. However, that's revisionist history. That offense was totally shut down and neutralized as soon as it got on film. Another way to look at it is that Chan was a stubborn, mediocre offensive mind whose offense was all gimmicks and who did himself in by falling in love with a QB who didn't have the talent to play the position. Anyone who does that is not anywhere near "elite" or even "good" as that is part of the job. I get it. People will forever love Chan because he got a 1 good year out of Spiller and Brady threw up all over himself and the Bills won against the Patriots* 1 out of 6 times he faced them. He also had a southern accent and took the TVs out of the weight room. And his W/L record SUCKED but hey, you really can't hold that against him. Wins and losses aren't what really matters... What REALLY matters is how "exciting" those 4 or 6 win seasons can be! You're completely ignoring the difference in rosters, especially defense, LT, and wide receiver. This is a substantially better team.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 FWIW, I think that Chan would do a MUCH better job with this offense than Hackett. Chan didn't have much talent (at all) and they still managed to move the ball some. He had the world's worst d coordinators (especially Wanny). I don't think that he was a good head coach but thought that he was a sharp offense mind that understood how to get guys on the right places.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 You know what I love about pro football? You either succeed or you don't. In the end, nobody really cares about the "yeah butts" New England* is supposedly the greatest dynasty ever created, and they won Super Bowls against the Eagles, Rams, and Panthers by stealing signals and kicking last minute field goals. People like me who loathe them with a passion just sound petty and small when we try to minimize what they accomplished. Scoreboard. All we can do is kiss the rings. Now Marrone hasn't accomplished anything near that. But his methods seems to be paying dividends and the team has won 5/8 this year and went 2-2 with a QB who cannot play the position. It's hilarious that you think Marrone & Hackett weren't a big part of the process in picking the qb who can't play the position. Does Marrone even have a ring to kiss? Does the Pinstripe Bowl have rings? Yeah, no one should dare question Saint Doug's resume.
TheFunPolice Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 The Bills fumbled in the red zone twice vs the Vikings. That's 6 points right there that should have been in the bank. Orton also fumbled to put the Vikings right into the red zone. That's a 9 point swing at a minimum toward the Vikings. Play calling got them down there and then fumbles ended those drives.
FireChan Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 The Bills fumbled in the red zone twice vs the Vikings. That's 6 points right there that should have been in the bank. Orton also fumbled to put the Vikings right into the red zone. That's a 9 point swing at a minimum toward the Vikings. Play calling got them down there and then fumbles ended those drives. Obviously, Hackett called the fumblerooski 3 times.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 The Bills fumbled in the red zone twice vs the Vikings. That's 6 points right there that should have been in the bank. Orton also fumbled to put the Vikings right into the red zone. That's a 9 point swing at a minimum toward the Vikings. Play calling got them down there and then fumbles ended those drives. Weren't you just talking about yeah butts? And the longer the drive, the more chance for mistakes. That's why you need to take shots and mix up the play calling. It's why you draft Watkins and Spiller. They are game changers if used correctly.
TheFunPolice Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 FWIW, I think that Chan would do a MUCH better job with this offense than Hackett. Chan didn't have much talent (at all) and they still managed to move the ball some. He had the world's worst d coordinators (especially Wanny). I don't think that he was a good head coach but thought that he was a sharp offense mind that understood how to get guys on the right places. I'm just not impressed with Chan. His Steelers offenses were based on a gimmick QB, and outside of that he was never a top-notch offensive coach. He was good at designing gimmicks and using smoke and mirrors to surprise teams. Then defenses caught right up and shut it down. I don't think he was the world's worst offensive coach or anything but I do think he is vastly overrated by Bills fans.
reddogblitz Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Is it revisionist history that we don't have the worst defense in the league? Like we did in the Gailey era? I was only talking about the revisionist history that Dick and Chan's teams had no emotion which Sammy originally stated. The defense is a whole other story. I am really happy we are 5-3, but all 5-3 really means is we ain't won nuthin' yet. I hope it is different this time but I won't know if it is until it is. Too early to tell.
TheFunPolice Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 So to sum up: Marrone's teams win in SPITE of bad coaching.... And the defense? Well, he doesn't get credit for that. He only gets blame for the bad stuff and any credit must be given out to someone else. As the head coach, he is only responsible for the parts of the team that we don't like at any given moment.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 So to sum up: Marrone's teams win in SPITE of bad coaching.... And the defense? Well, he doesn't get credit for that. He only gets blame for the bad stuff and any credit must be given out to someone else. As the head coach, he is only responsible for the parts of the team that we don't like at any given moment. Chan's biggest downfall, by far, was his inability to get a good defensive coach. Marrone, to his credit, got two very good ones in a row. It helped that he had Mario Williams, Kyle, and Dareus of course (or Pettine and Schwartz may not have been convinced so quickly and easily).
FireChan Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I was only talking about the revisionist history that Dick and Chan's teams had no emotion which Sammy originally stated. The defense is a whole other story. I am really happy we are 5-3, but all 5-3 really means is we ain't won nuthin' yet. I hope it is different this time but I won't know if it is until it is. Too early to tell. We've basically clinched a playoff berth, get on board.
TheFunPolice Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 No passion under Jauron? http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2009/10/20/1092245/what-a-leader
Dante Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 And that's why people are pissed off at the play calling. The defense and Detroit's kicker won us the game. The defense was the reason we were able to beat a bad Vikes team that we could only score 10 points against for 59 minutes. We are asking way too much from our defense. They will break down if we go 7 series in a row without a 1st down. Yes. And if our D was only average instead of being very good we would be 3-5 at best and the poor offensive play calling would not be tolerated like it is now. It's only acceptable to some because they are winning. Honestly the offense did everything it could to blow the Lions game. All they had to do was put together a couple first downs to run the clock. But just the typical scared play calling. Detroit gets the ball back. Thank's to a crappy kicker we get a second chance to win.
The Big Cat Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Yes. And if our D was only average instead of being very good we would be 3-5 at best and the poor offensive play calling would not be tolerated like it is now. It's only acceptable to some because they are winning. Honestly the offense did everything it could to blow the Lions game. All they had to do was put together a couple first downs to run the clock. But just the typical scared play calling. Detroit gets the ball back. Thank's to a crappy kicker we get a second chance to win. I take it you were among the posters heralding how close our 6-10 records were to being 11-5's?
Coach Tuesday Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 To my admittedly untrained eye, what struck me most about Chan's offense was not the passing scheme, but rather, (i) he seemed to have a good feel for playcalling; and (ii) he seemed to understand run blocking. I don't think Hackett measures up in either category.
GG Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) To my admittedly untrained eye, what struck me most about Chan's offense was not the passing scheme, but rather, (i) he seemed to have a good feel for playcalling; and (ii) he seemed to understand run blocking. I don't think Hackett measures up in either category. He understood the limits and capabilities of his playmakers. That is the main difference between good and bad coordinators. Case in point, Kevin Gilbride. Was he a good coach or a bad one? Depends on who and when you ask. He proved that when he had the right personnel to run his offense, he was very good. Like having Larry Centers on the roster. But that offence didn't quite work with Sam Gash. Look at what Bruce Arians did in Indy. They tried like hell to beef up their run game and it didn't work. So did he keep ramming Trent Richardson into the pile? I don't think so, even though he had a perfect alibi because most of his WRs went down with injuries. Good coaches will sideways adjust the plan to the strength of the roster. Edited October 29, 2014 by GG
bobobonators Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 To my untrained eye, Chan made chicken salad out of chicken s***. Our WR depth under Gailey consisted of: Ruvell Martin, Aiken, Hagan, Donald Jones, David Nelson, N. Roosevelt, Easely, TJ Graham, Brad Smith and an unknown Stevie Johnson (in 2010). Gailey made Stevie into a 1,000yd WR. Gailey developed Chandler. He turned Ryan Fitzpatrick from a nobody into a 3,500 - 3800 yd passer. He eventually found the formula and made CJ Spiller into one of the most dynamic RB's in the NFL. Also, there are still 5 OL from the Gailey era that are on this roster - so if Marrone can't figure it out soon enough with the OL situation, maybe he can put his ego aside and just mimic his predecessor. With our current offense Gailey would make lightning bolts come out of his ars. Like others mentioned however, Gailey was never able to bring in a D-coordinator worth a damn and those 2010 - 2012 Bills teams had epically bad defenses that the offense was simply never able to overcome. That's what did him in. IMO Gailey was the best offensive mind we've had in Buffalo in a long, long time.
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