thewildrabbit Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 ive long been on the fence with marrone - and teeter back and forth a bit. Lets not act like bad coaches have never had a 5-3 half of a season. Both Jauron in 2008, and Gailey in 2011 started out like that and ended up with losing seasons 7-9 & 6-10. The difference is this years team has a top 10 defense, and a vet QB who can make things happen. I dunno perhaps the lack of a decent run game won't ruin the season. I just hope the lack of a decent O line doesn't either.
Wayne Cubed Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Maybe because the Bills don't have gaping holes in their secondary and have the most sacks and turnovers in the league. And they didn't get 6 turnovers themselves. The jets have exactly one INT the entire season. There was a good reason to not risk throwing more. And there was a good reason for the Bills not to risk throwing more, like risking Kyle Orton getting sacked multiple times. He dropped back only 17 times in the game and was sacked 4 times. Hell on the first series he was hit twice and sacked. Maybe, NH thought to himself "We can win this without trying to severely injure Kyle Orton".
Kirby Jackson Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Both Jauron in 2008, and Gailey in 2011 started out like that and ended up with losing seasons 7-9 & 6-10. The difference is this years team has a top 10 defense, and a vet QB who can make things happen. I dunno perhaps the lack of a decent run game won't ruin the season. I just hope the lack of a decent O line doesn't either. Agree with all of this and most everything that you have said on the topic. I think that an OC's job is to set up his unit to do what they do best and I don't think that Hackett does that particularly well. They don't run very well between the tackles but they continue to bang it up in there. He used his best offensive weapon as a decoy in the season's biggest game, he continues to use Spiller between the tackles and they have way too many 3 and outs. I'm as happy as anyone that the Bills are 5-3 but that doesn't mean that they are perfect. They need to be better in certain areas. The offensive game plan is one of those areas and an area that can be fixed. Hopefully, they will improve over the last 8 games and get to the playoffs.
ProcessAccepted Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Can't we just accept and enjoy that the offense is good enough. I believe that you need to tweak things not make massive changes like a new OC. This is not the teams off Jauron and Gailey. As #12 pointed out in those dark days those locker rooms lacked passion. After those games you couldn't tell whether they'd won or lost. We're 5-3 got some much improved stats on offense and defense. I see no reason to panic. Orton would have won the Texans game, we should be 6-2.
Wiz Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) What answer would you give to satiate everyone? His simplistic response suggests that the stupid fans want the team to abandon the run. Nobody is suggesting anything of the sort, but rather to not run the same plays on first and second down for six consecutive possessions!!!! How about trying a counter or a sweep???? How about getting a little crazy and running a play action on second down??? At the very least he ought to acknowledge that they may need to mix it up a bit, but he instead shows his unwarranted cockiness saying "I love it" and brags about the points they put up on a one win team that committed six turnovers. Edited October 29, 2014 by Wiz
Kelly the Dog Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 And there was a good reason for the Bills not to risk throwing more, like risking Kyle Orton getting sacked multiple times. He dropped back only 17 times in the game and was sacked 4 times. Hell on the first series he was hit twice and sacked. Maybe, NH thought to himself "We can win this without trying to severely injure Kyle Orton". On half the sacks the problem was as much Marrone and Hackett as the OL because of their stupid bunch formations and three TE sets. One play in particular the Jets were able to rush the LB and CB on their left side because our whole team was bunched up. There weren't guys to block them and they killed Orton. If they didn't do that, the Jets couldn't possibly get away with that. My argument is different than most Hackett detractors.
Alaska Darin Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 On half the sacks the problem was as much Marrone and Hackett as the OL because of their stupid bunch formations and three TE sets. One play in particular the Jets were able to rush the LB and CB on their left side because our whole team was bunched up. There weren't guys to block them and they killed Orton. If they didn't do that, the Jets couldn't possibly get away with that. My argument is different than most Hackett detractors. Completely and totally agree. Formations were a much larger problem than actual play selection. Spread those !@#$ers out!
NoSaint Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Can't we just accept and enjoy that the offense is good enough. I believe that you need to tweak things not make massive changes like a new OC. This is not the teams off Jauron and Gailey. As #12 pointed out in those dark days those locker rooms lacked passion. After those games you couldn't tell whether they'd won or lost. We're 5-3 got some much improved stats on offense and defense. I see no reason to panic. Orton would have won the Texans game, we should be 6-2. in the gailey start we had a 23 and a 34 point win. lets not pretend that the sentiment around here wasnt the same. the offense HAS been good enough, but we will have to see if it IS good enough. i think there are legit reasons to question it.
reddogblitz Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Coach can't hit the holes for him (of course, our O line can't really OPEN the holes for him either, soooo). Neither can he for Dixon or Bryce, obviously. Remember in 2008 when Dick Jauron went 5-1? Remember in 2011 when Chan Gailey went 5-2? 3 out of the last 7 years the Bills have started 5 - 3. Playoff drought continued the first 2 times. Hopefully this year is different. More production out of Offense would be nice.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 That ain't me, babe. Hell, I was in the "give EJ more chances" pool until it became obvious that that was a terrible idea. I want to be optimistic. I'm just saying that I need more proof. I've been burned by the Bills too many times not to be skeptical. They are going to have to take better advantage of their chances against better teams. This is obvious, no? no it is not
NoSaint Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 no it is not its not obvious that we will need to be more productive on offense to consistently beat good teams?
Alaska Darin Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 its not obvious that we will need to be more productive on offense to consistently beat good teams? We also need to be able to get critical stops on defense, which we certainly didn't do in the Patriots' game.
reddogblitz Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 This is not the teams off Jauron and Gailey. As #12 pointed out in those dark days those locker rooms lacked passion. Honestly I don't know where you and #12 got this from. The team is 5-3 and has not emotion? Really? I remember being at the Eagles game in the midst of that 2011 5-3 start. I saw a lot of emotion at that game. Same as the home opener in 2008 which I was also at when we demolished Seattle who had been in the NFC Championship game the year before. This sound like a case revisionist history to me.
FireChan Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Honestly I don't know where you and #12 got this from. The team is 5-3 and has not emotion? Really? I remember being at the Eagles game in the midst of that 2011 5-3 start. I saw a lot of emotion at that game. Same as the home opener in 2008 which I was also at when we demolished Seattle who had been in the NFC Championship game the year before. This sound like a case revisionist history to me. Is it revisionist history that we don't have the worst defense in the league? Like we did in the Gailey era?
Alaska Darin Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Is it revisionist history that we don't have the worst defense in the league? Like we did in the Gailey era? That might have been the worst coached defense in the history of the league.
TheFunPolice Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Now, now... Chan Gailey THAT was a coach! His exciting offense was so good only division foes and halfway decent teams could shut it down. Gailey's offense was all smoke and mirrors and dumb little screen passes. They worked for a few weeks each season until defense caught on and then it was over. His offense put up almost identical PPG as Hackett's did. Yes, I know. It was "EXCITING!" and gave people tingles up their legs. But it was mediocre in the end and teams just sat there waiting for the screens that they knew were coming. One of the best days for me as a Bills fan in years was when the Gailey/Fitzpatrick era was finally OVER. Fitzpatrick is a journeyman with below average talent who can get hot here and there and nothing else. Gailey (the supposed guru) telling us over and over how Fitzpatrick was the guy and "we've seen him do it" made me enjoy every single minute of the beatdowns that the Bills endured at the end of his last season. Edited October 29, 2014 by TheFunPolice
Kelly the Dog Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Now, now... Chan Gailey THAT was a coach! His exciting offense was so good only division foes and halfway decent teams could shut it down. Gailey's offense was all smoke and mirrors and dumb little screen passes. They worked for a few weeks each season until defense caught on and then it was over. His offense put up almost identical PPG as Hackett's did. Yes, I know. It was "EXCITING!" and gave people tingles up their legs. But it was mediocre in the end and teams just sat there waiting for the screens that they knew were coming. One of the best days for me as a Bills fan in years was when the Gailey/Fitzpatrick era was finally OVER. Fitzpatrick is a journeyman with below average talent who can get hot here and there and nothing else. Gailey (the supposed guru) telling us over and over how "we've seen him do it" made me enjoy every single minute of the beatdowns that the Bills endured at the end of his last season. Well, he was playing with four 7th round or UDFA Wrs out there, and no LT instead of Sammy Watkins, Woods, Williams and the superhuman Hogan, along with Glenn.
TheFunPolice Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Keep in mind there will be NO "explanations" for Hackett. He should have been INNOVATIVE and CREATIVE when starting 4 different QBs in his 24 games to date as OC: Tuel, Manuel, Lewis, and now Orton. 3 of those guys do not belong as NFL starting QBs. 1 signed on Labor Day weekend. Meanwhile, Chan "had his guy" and would allow absolutely ZERO competition for him. One way to look at it is that Chan was an offensive guru who had an exciting innovative offense. That's how many Bills fans feel. However, that's revisionist history. That offense was totally shut down and neutralized as soon as it got on film. Another way to look at it is that Chan was a stubborn, mediocre offensive mind whose offense was all gimmicks and who did himself in by falling in love with a QB who didn't have the talent to play the position. Anyone who does that is not anywhere near "elite" or even "good" as that is part of the job. I get it. People will forever love Chan because he got a 1 good year out of Spiller and Brady threw up all over himself and the Bills won against the Patriots* 1 out of 6 times he faced them. He also had a southern accent and took the TVs out of the weight room. And his W/L record SUCKED but hey, you really can't hold that against him. Wins and losses aren't what really matters... What REALLY matters is how "exciting" those 4 or 6 win seasons can be! Edited October 29, 2014 by TheFunPolice
NoSaint Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Keep in mind there will be NO "explanations" for Hackett. He should have been INNOVATIVE and CREATIVE when starting 4 different QBs in his 24 games to date as OC: Tuel, Manuel, Lewis, and now Orton I get it. People will forever love Chan because he got a 1 good year out of Spiller and Brady threw up all over himself and the Bills won against the Patriots* 1 out of 6 times he faced them. He also had a southern accent and took the TVs out of the weight room. And his W/L record SUCKED but hey, you really can't hold that against him. Wins and losses aren't what really matters... What REALLY matters is how "exciting" those 4 or 6 win seasons can be! ive been among the loudest on here frustrated with hackett, and ive acknowledged last year was a tough situation. i also didnt say chans teams werent highly flawed, but that our current has questions to answer... its weird how the accusations of irrational support are flowing the direction they are.
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