Fire Hackett

[GG]

Of course they are but the Bills are too. The Jets were unraveling yesterday and the Bills let them up. SD never had a chance to go for the knockout blow. They just outplayed us. The Bills could have knocked the Jets out before halftime and didn't.

 

People also forget the same script in the Miami game. That game had no business being as close as it was. Everyone will point to the final score, but the game was not as big of a blow out as the final score indicates.

 

That's what this thread is about. I know it's in a Fire Hackett titled thread. And it would be stupid to fire Hackett now. But it's height of folly to pretend that the offense is playing up to the roster's potential. In the parity of the league, Bills can win this kind of a match up 50% of the time. But that's not enough to get them to 10+ wins.

[bobobonators]

 

 

People also forget the same script in the Miami game. That game had no business being as close as it was. Everyone will point to the final score, but the game was not as big of a blow out as the final score indicates.

 

That's what this thread is about. I know it's in a Fire Hackett titled thread. And it would be stupid to fire Hackett now. But it's height of folly to pretend that the offense is playing up to the roster's potential. In the parity of the league, Bills can win this kind of a match up 50% of the time. But that's not enough to get them to 10+ wins.

 

100% agree.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

People also forget the same script in the Miami game. That game had no business being as close as it was. Everyone will point to the final score, but the game was not as big of a blow out as the final score indicates.

 

That's what this thread is about. I know it's in a Fire Hackett titled thread. And it would be stupid to fire Hackett now. But it's height of folly to pretend that the offense is playing up to the roster's potential. In the parity of the league, Bills can win this kind of a match up 50% of the time. But that's not enough to get them to 10+ wins.

Perfectly said

[NoSaint]

In the parity of the league, Bills can win this kind of a match up 50% of the time. But that's not enough to get them to 10+ wins.

 

the thing is, it might occasionally - but it might also get you to 6 wins other years. so far we have gotten away with some offensive struggles. more than id want to rely on getting away with consistently, even if the record looks nice.

[Jauronimo]

I would also fire the people who fired Hackett. Can't have any Hackett sympathizers in the organization.

[thewildrabbit]

People also forget the same script in the Miami game. That game had no business being as close as it was. Everyone will point to the final score, but the game was not as big of a blow out as the final score indicates.

 

That's what this thread is about. I know it's in a Fire Hackett titled thread. And it would be stupid to fire Hackett now. But it's height of folly to pretend that the offense is playing up to the roster's potential. In the parity of the league, Bills can win this kind of a match up 50% of the time. But that's not enough to get them to 10+ wins.

agree, and this team could be an offensive powerhouse with better OG's and coaching. Its as simple as that. Last day of trade deadline

[C.Biscuit97]

People also forget the same script in the Miami game. That game had no business being as close as it was. Everyone will point to the final score, but the game was not as big of a blow out as the final score indicates.

 

That's what this thread is about. I know it's in a Fire Hackett titled thread. And it would be stupid to fire Hackett now. But it's height of folly to pretend that the offense is playing up to the roster's potential. In the parity of the league, Bills can win this kind of a match up 50% of the time. But that's not enough to get them to 10+ wins.

 

Well said. It's not wrong to want more. Great coaches adjust to games and their talent. A good offensive coach figures out how to use Spiller effectively. A good coach adjusts his plans instead of running up the middle 75% of the time when guard paly is the weakness of the offense.

 

We are winning games against bad QBs. The goal is the playoffs and these gameplans won't beat the elite guys (Brady, Rodgers, Peyton). And it would be one thing if Syracuse was a powerhouse offense. They were a middle of the pack Big East offense. Hackett should not be so stuck on his "system," which is essentially Marty Ball.

[The Big Cat]

How much of the offense's sputtering can be attributed to the OLine?

 

I'm thinking somewhere in the range of 60-80% of the blame.

 

I'm thinking if we had Dallas' oline, we might be damn near 8-0.

Edited October 28, 2014 by The Big Cat

[Donald Duck]

Half way through the season and the Bills Defense leads the league in sacks (28) and takeaways (18) along with being the best run stopping unit in the NFL.

 

These stats/achievments combined with a good passing QB on the Offense, but who's biggest downside is mobility, begs run the football. Get the Bills Offense into 3rd and short situations and allow Kyle Orton to pick his spots throwing downfield. Ortons proved he can sling the football and win games at crunch time. Flipping the football field with good D, and Running the football keeps Kyle Orton healthy.

 

This conservative approach to sucess is coming from the top IMO, and If the Bills freight train of a D continues with the pace its on I would expect more of the same as the Bills try to reach the playoffs for the 1st time in over a decade.

 

"Calculated"

 

Playoffs Baby!!! We can do this!!!!

[FireChan]

How much of the offense's sputtering can be attributed to the OLine?

 

I'm thinking somewhere in the range of 60-80% of the blame.

 

I'm thinking if we had Dallas' oline, we might be damn near 8-0.

 

Dallas's O-line and if Fred was Murray's age and healthy, absolutely.

[Heitz]

In the parity of the league, Bills can win this kind of a match up 50% of the time. But that's not enough to get them to 10+ wins.

 

Except for the fact that it got them 5 wins halfway through the season, so seems like it *could* be enough to get us 10 wins in a full season.

 

 

And for the record, I'm NOT a fan of Hackett, but the simple narrative that the Bills O sucks and that's ALL on Hackett doesn't fly with me. Especially when we're scoring points and winning games (and have a KILLER D)...

[FireChan]

 

 

Well said. It's not wrong to want more. Great coaches adjust to games and their talent. A good offensive coach figures out how to use Spiller effectively. A good coach adjusts his plans instead of running up the middle 75% of the time when guard paly is the weakness of the offense.

 

We are winning games against bad QBs. The goal is the playoffs and these gameplans won't beat the elite guys (Brady, Rodgers, Peyton). And it would be one thing if Syracuse was a powerhouse offense. They were a middle of the pack Big East offense. Hackett should not be so stuck on his "system," which is essentially Marty Ball.

 

I remember an offensive gameplan that scored enough to be down 8 to Brady and in a position to tie the game. EJ gameplans are null cause, well, you know. So where is your "won't beat elite guys" coming from?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Except for the fact that it got them 5 wins halfway through the season, so seems like it *could* be enough to get us 10 wins in a full season.

 

 

And for the record, I'm NOT a fan of Hackett, but the simple narrative that the Bills O sucks and that's ALL on Hackett doesn't fly with me. Especially when we're scoring points and winning games (and have a KILLER D)...

I think that the disconnect is in the 2nd paragraph. No one is putting it ALL on Hackett. He is a part of the problem, as is the OL, EJ was, etc... No one has argued that he has been stellar they have just said "we scored 43 points, be happy." Hackett has not maximized the talent on the offense.

 

The outcome of the game is irrelevant when assessing an individual's performance. Bradham committed 3 personal fouls (or whatever it was) the other day and consistently took bad angles. Should we be pleased with that because they won? The point being that everything done during a win isn't necessarily good just like everything that happens during a loss isn't necessarily bad. It is okay to judge each performance on its own merits. Hackett should not be fired during the season but he has not done his job well either.

[thebandit27]

How much of the offense's sputtering can be attributed to the OLine?

 

I'm thinking somewhere in the range of 60-80% of the blame.

 

I'm thinking if we had Dallas' oline, we might be damn near 8-0.

 

My opinion--not nearly as much as I see them get blamed for around these parts.

 

The OL hasn't been great; no doubt. The Bills, however, are averaging a robust 4.8 YPC on first down, which is in the top 6 in the NFL. If anything, predictable play-calling is hurting the run game more than poor run blocking (well, that, and CJ Spiller's seeming inability to hit a hole).

 

I also observe that Orton seems to hold the ball for a long time in the pocket in the hope of making a play downfield. That's not exactly a bad thing; it does lead to more sacks. Three of the four he took against the Jets were simply wrought from holding the ball far too long. The other was a case of two unblocked edge rushers that resulted from the play design (5 guys in pass routes); the could go on Orton as well, since there's supposed to be a hot read there, but my feeling is that if the hot read isn't ready for the ball, it's on either the intended target or the OC for a poor design.

 

I guess I'm trying to say that I recognize that the OL needs to be better; I'm also not putting anywhere near as much blame on them as many others seem to.

[FireChan]

 

 

My opinion--not nearly as much as I see them get blamed for around these parts.

 

The OL hasn't been great; no doubt. The Bills, however, are averaging a robust 4.8 YPC on first down, which is in the top 6 in the NFL. If anything, predictable play-calling is hurting the run game more than poor run blocking (well, that, and CJ Spiller's seeming inability to hit a hole).

 

I also observe that Orton seems to hold the ball for a long time in the pocket in the hope of making a play downfield. That's not exactly a bad thing; it does lead to more sacks. Three of the four he took against the Jets were simply wrought from holding the ball far too long. The other was a case of two unblocked edge rushers that resulted from the play design (5 guys in pass routes); the could go on Orton as well, since there's supposed to be a hot read there, but my feeling is that if the hot read isn't ready for the ball, it's on either the intended target or the OC for a poor design.

 

I guess I'm trying to say that I recognize that the OL needs to be better; I'm also not putting anywhere near as much blame on them as many others seem to.

 

So the first down run is 4.8 YPC, and Hackett gets no credit for that ?

 

 

[The Big Cat]

My opinion--not nearly as much as I see them get blamed for around these parts.

 

The OL hasn't been great; no doubt. The Bills, however, are averaging a robust 4.8 YPC on first down, which is in the top 6 in the NFL. If anything, predictable play-calling is hurting the run game more than poor run blocking (well, that, and CJ Spiller's seeming inability to hit a hole).

 

I also observe that Orton seems to hold the ball for a long time in the pocket in the hope of making a play downfield. That's not exactly a bad thing; it does lead to more sacks. Three of the four he took against the Jets were simply wrought from holding the ball far too long. The other was a case of two unblocked edge rushers that resulted from the play design (5 guys in pass routes); the could go on Orton as well, since there's supposed to be a hot read there, but my feeling is that if the hot read isn't ready for the ball, it's on either the intended target or the OC for a poor design.

 

I guess I'm trying to say that I recognize that the OL needs to be better; I'm also not putting anywhere near as much blame on them as many others seem to.

 

That 4.8 feels awfully high. I'm guessing both Spiller's long runs (Miami/Minnesota) and both long runs in the Bears game (Jackson/Dixon) came on first down.

 

So the first down run is 4.8 YPC, and Hackett gets no credit for that ?

 

Yeah the follow up sentence " If anything, predictable play-calling is hurting the run game more than poor run blocking..." didn't make any sense to me neither.

[C.Biscuit97]

I remember an offensive gameplan that scored enough to be down 8 to Brady and in a position to tie the game. EJ gameplans are null cause, well, you know. So where is your "won't beat elite guys" coming from?

That's the point. The defense will break down if the offense does not pick it up. You can't go 7 series in a row without a 1st down. You can't not a score a td until the 4th quarter. You can't barely hang on against the Vikes.

 

We have beat Cutler (turnover machine), Tannehill (inconsistent at best), Stafford (3 missed fgs, nothing special without Megatron), Bridgewater (rookie in his first road start), and Geno/ Vick (Dumb and Dumber). We lost to Rivers, Brady, and Fitz (bad loss).

 

We have Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton left. Our offensive gameplans leave our defense a very small margain for error. They will break down like they did against NE (and 22 points is not enough to win against a good team). IF we get 6 turnovers ever game and start inside the 50, that's fine. But we won't and they need to get better.

[JC2002]

Half way through the season and the Bills Defense leads the league in sacks (28) and takeaways (18) along with being the best run stopping unit in the NFL.

 

These stats/achievments combined with a good passing QB on the Offense, but who's biggest downside is mobility, begs run the football. Get the Bills Offense into 3rd and short situations and allow Kyle Orton to pick his spots throwing downfield. Ortons proved he can sling the football and win games at crunch time. Flipping the football field with good D, and Running the football keeps Kyle Orton healthy.

 

This conservative approach to success is coming from the top IMO, and If the Bills freight train of a D continues with the pace its on I would expect more of the same as the Bills try to reach the playoffs for the 1st time in over a decade.

 

"Calculated"

 

Playoffs Baby!!! We can do this!!!!

 

I agree and to add to this

1. This team is learning how to win its a process and with a new qb you are going to be on the conservative side at times . The goal is to continue to get better and improve over time to better in week 8 than you were in 1 and to better in week 17 than you were in week 8 .
   
2. We have some extremely young players in key positions on this team and so everything is a learning opportunity. So whose to to say some of the play calls were not to simply get certain things on film against one of the best D-lines in football. We feel we are in control of the game so lets try some fancy stuff or lets get some stuff on film to work with this Oline on the next two weeks .
   

[thebandit27]

So the first down run is 4.8 YPC, and Hackett gets no credit for that ?

 

I didn't say he gets no credit. Come on now--you know me better than that!

 

I love the way the Bills run the ball on first down; they average more than 4 yards. That's what you're supposed to do on first down. My problem with Hackett has largely been his 2nd down play-calling and his lack of creativity with the short passing game.

 

That 4.8 feels awfully high. I'm guessing both Spiller's long runs (Miami/Minnesota) and both long runs in the Bears game (Jackson/Dixon) came on first down.

 

I'll have to look at the numbers in detail--I should have time this afternoon; if so I'll come back and break it down.

 

Yeah the follow up sentence " If anything, predictable play-calling is hurting the run game more than poor run blocking..." didn't make any sense to me neither.

 

Too many obvious 2nd-down runs from obvious running packages IMO. The run/pass distribution on offense has been close to 50/50, so keeping teams guessing hasn't been as difficult. On 2nd down, just too many tendencies that show on game film IMO.

[The Big Cat]

That's the point. The defense will break down if the offense does not pick it up. You can't go 7 series in a row without a 1st down. You can't not a score a td until the 4th quarter. You can't barely hang on against the Vikes.

 

The Bills have three wins that suggest otherwise.

 

I get that they have to play better against better teams.

 

But the defense had a major breakdown to give up a late TD against the Pats* and the long TD into the endzone to Tym was just kinda flukey. Also, I contend that with Aaron Williams in the backfield that day, it would have been a different story. Duke Williams was entirely out of his element.

 

So, while I understand we're allowing a very thin margin for error, I challenge your implication that the D's not up for it.