FireChan Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 For those of you that support Hackett what is it that you like about the offense? The New England game plan was so frustrating. Anytime that you decide that you are going to use your best offensive player as a decoy I have an issue. I believe that you should do what you do best and what the flow of the game dictates. I thought that they should have went for the throat in the 1st half yesterday. They let a bad team, playing poorly hang around. With that being said I think that the red zone play calling has improved. I have a couple. I like that Hackett's passing plays seem to be very effective. I like that there is a clear effort to get Sammy involved early by the offense, besides that one mistake of a game. I like how our 2 minute offense is great. I like how everyone and their mothers know Sammy is the primary option in the 2 minute drill, and he gets open anyway. I like how Hackett refuses to abandon the run game in close games, too many failed coaches abandoned the run too early and ended up down 30, like my namesake (also, the "pass more don't run" crowd is the same crowd who yells "shoot!" every 5 seconds in a hockey game). I'm sure I could think of a few more.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Was this ever confirmed or just speculated? I watched the game. He had separation and zero 1st half targets. Whether or not it was confirmed they clearly were trying to "protect" Watkins from Revis. They did say something to the tune of "they saw some good opportunities to use the TEs" in that game. I asked myself, "why would this team ever feature the TEs?" I have a couple. I like that Hackett's passing plays seem to be very effective. I like that there is a clear effort to get Sammy involved early by the offense, besides that one mistake of a game. I like how our 2 minute offense is great. I like how everyone and their mothers know Sammy is the primary option in the 2 minute drill, and he gets open anyway. I like how Hackett refuses to abandon the run game in close games, too many failed coaches abandoned the run too early and ended up down 30, like my namesake (also, the "pass more don't run" crowd is the same crowd who yells "shoot!" every 5 seconds in a hockey game). I'm sure I could think of a few more. Fair enough
FireChan Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 I watched the game. He had separation and zero 1st half targets. Whether or not it was confirmed they clearly were trying to "protect" Watkins from Revis. They did say something to the tune of "they saw some good opportunities to use the TEs" in that game. I asked myself, "why would this team ever feature the TEs?" Fair enough I'd also like to say I have no idea how much that is Orton, Hackett or Marrone. None of us do. And I don't particularly care for Hackett.
thewildrabbit Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 I have a couple. I like that Hackett's passing plays seem to be very effective. I like that there is a clear effort to get Sammy involved early by the offense, besides that one mistake of a game. I like how our 2 minute offense is great. I like how everyone and their mothers know Sammy is the primary option in the 2 minute drill, and he gets open anyway. I like how Hackett refuses to abandon the run game in close games, too many failed coaches abandoned the run too early and ended up down 30, like my namesake (also, the "pass more don't run" crowd is the same crowd who yells "shoot!" every 5 seconds in a hockey game). I'm sure I could think of a few more. I have no idea what games Hackett continued to run the ball in when the score was close, as previous to the Jets game it was 40 passes vs 20 runs against San Diego, Houston, Detroit, New England, Minnesota. Up until this Jets game Hackett called more pass plays then Denver did, and less run plays. It was getting Orton sacked, hit way to often. Getting Sammy involved in the offense with Sammy getting the ball a whole 3 times the entire game. Its a credit to Watkins ability that that's all he needed. What, not a decoy this game? The games where Hackett's passing plays are effective is solely because Orton is making the proper reads, decisions, and throws. This is similar to Chan Gailey getting credit for Fitz's ability to get the ball to the open receiver so quickly. Its not like this coaching staff developed Kyle Orton whatsoever. The guy Hackett that can take credit for developing is riding the bench. I really like Kyle Orton, and the way he is winning games. Its a darn shame the Bills don't have a decent run game to help him very much. You know, kinda the same way the Cowboys run game is helping Romo.
FireChan Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) I have no idea what games Hackett continued to run the ball in when the score was close, as previous to the Jets game it was 40 passes vs 20 runs against San Diego, Houston, Detroit, New England, Minnesota. Up until this Jets game Hackett called more pass plays then Denver did, and less run plays. It was getting Orton sacked, hit way to often. Getting Sammy involved in the offense with Sammy getting the ball a whole 3 times the entire game. Its a credit to Watkins ability that that's all he needed. What, not a decoy this game? The games where Hackett's passing plays are effective is solely because Orton is making the proper reads, decisions, and throws. This is similar to Chan Gailey getting credit for Fitz's ability to get the ball to the open receiver so quickly. Its not like this coaching staff developed Kyle Orton whatsoever. The guy Hackett that can take credit for developing is riding the bench. I really like Kyle Orton, and the way he is winning games. Its a darn shame the Bills don't have a decent run game to help him very much. You know, kinda the same way the Cowboys run game is helping Romo. Chan Gailey's gameplan have Fitzy his best years as a starter. Marrackett's seems to be doing the same thing for Orton. Sammy had 30 percent of the catches, and more than 80% of our passing yards. That's getting him involved. Edited October 28, 2014 by FireChan
Alaska Darin Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 Chan Gailey's gameplan have Fitzy his best years as a starter. Marrackett's seems to be doing the same thing for Orton. Orton has never had this level of skill position talent around him. He's a very underrated player. Kinda like this generation's Phil Simms.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 Sammy had 30 percent of the catches, and more than 80% of our passing yards. That's getting him involved. No, it's not. Those are ridiculous artificial parameters to use percentages. That's like saying Lee Smith was the main focus of the red zone passing game because he got 50% of the throws. When you get 6 turnovers and only throw the ball 4-5 times to your best player, especially when it was the opponent's blatant biggest weakness, and it was clear from the first quarter that they could not cover him, that is gross under-utilization, much more than getting him involved.
FireChan Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) No, it's not. Those are ridiculous artificial parameters to use percentages. That's like saying Lee Smith was the main focus of the red zone passing game because he got 50% of the throws. When you get 6 turnovers and only throw the ball 4-5 times to your best player, especially when it was the opponent's blatant biggest weakness, and it was clear from the first quarter that they could not cover him, that is gross under-utilization, much more than getting him involved. We only threw the ball 17 times. We only had 10 completions. The game was in hand. He, and Woods, both got involved early. If the Jets rattled off 40, we would've thrown more and I have no doubt Sammy would've have at least 200 yards. Your Lee Smith example is an absurd mischaracterization. When you throw for less than 200 yards, and your #1 WR had 150 of them, that's getting him involved. Orton has never had this level of skill position talent around him. He's a very underrated player. Kinda like this generation's Phil Simms. Maybe, maybe not. Denver had some quality WR's his last year there. Edited October 28, 2014 by FireChan
Kelly the Dog Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 We only threw the ball 17 times. We only had 10 completions. The game was in hand. He, and Woods, both got involved early. If the Jets rattled off 40, we would've thrown more and I have no doubt Sammy would've have at least 200 yards. Agreed. But I have no doubt he would have had 250 if we were in a normal offense, let alone one trying to exploit weaknesses. And believe me, I understand not being careless. I had zero problem with a few of the drives in Jet territory when we went for a FG. But the Jets were playing a lousy safety at CB who could not cover our biggest weapon who routinely abuses good CBs. It was shooting fish in a barrel and we decided, consciously, to try to talk the fish into surrender instead of taking the gun and shooting them.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 We only threw the ball 17 times. We only had 10 completions. The game was in hand. He, and Woods, both got involved early. If the Jets rattled off 40, we would've thrown more and I have no doubt Sammy would've have at least 200 yards. Its a circular argument though. Sammy averaged over 52 yards per reception yesterday. Obviously it was working so you'd think that you would want to do that more -right? His job as the offensive coordinator is to design an offense based on your strengths. I don't think that the Bills offense does that well at all. The Bills haven't figured out how to use Mike Williams, they can't run, never put Spiller in position to make plays and don't get Watkins the ball enough. Again, I am as thrilled as anyone about the outcome yesterday but that doesn't mean that Hackett was (or is) good.
FireChan Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 Agreed. But I have no doubt he would have had 250 if we were in a normal offense, let alone one trying to exploit weaknesses. And believe me, I understand not being careless. I had zero problem with a few of the drives in Jet territory when we went for a FG. But the Jets were playing a lousy safety at CB who could not cover our biggest weapon who routinely abuses good CBs. It was shooting fish in a barrel and we decided, consciously, to try to talk the fish into surrender instead of taking the gun and shooting them. So did San Diego when they played us, right? We throw to Sammy a little more, maybe he fumbles, maybe he gets hurt, maybe Orton gets hurt. It. Wasn't. Necessary. We attacked their CB's well enough to get Sammy 150. Phillip Rivers must not play in a normal offense, and definitely not one that exploits weaknesses. There are many instances to criticize Hackett, maybe too many. The Jets game in its entirety is not one.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 So did San Diego when they played us, right? We throw to Sammy a little more, maybe he fumbles, maybe he gets hurt, maybe Orton gets hurt. It. Wasn't. Necessary. We attacked their CB's well enough to get Sammy 150. Phillip Rivers must not play in a normal offense, and definitely not one that exploits weaknesses. There are many instances to criticize Hackett, maybe too many. The Jets game in its entirety is not one. So did San Diego when they played us, right? We throw to Sammy a little more, maybe he fumbles, maybe he gets hurt, maybe Orton gets hurt. It. Wasn't. Necessary. We attacked their CB's well enough to get Sammy 150. Phillip Rivers must not play in a normal offense, and definitely not one that exploits weaknesses. There are many instances to criticize Hackett, maybe too many. The Jets game in its entirety is not one. You act like the game was over when Geno left. It wasn't. It wasn't in hand until we were up three scores in the fourth quarter. Good teams put bad teams away when it is there for the taking. Period.
FireChan Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 You act like the game was over when Geno left. It wasn't. It wasn't in hand until we were up three scores in the fourth quarter. Good teams put bad teams away when it is there for the taking. Period. So is San Diego not a good team?
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 So is San Diego not a good team? Of course they are but the Bills are too. The Jets were unraveling yesterday and the Bills let them up. SD never had a chance to go for the knockout blow. They just outplayed us. The Bills could have knocked the Jets out before halftime and didn't.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 So is San Diego not a good team? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about concerning San Diego. They got a lot of their yards off pick plays and defensive guys falling down, especially early. That game was nothing like the Bills game. And Rivers making ridiculous passes he couldnt make every time.
FireChan Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 Of course they are but the Bills are too. The Jets were unraveling yesterday and the Bills let them up. SD never had a chance to go for the knockout blow. They just outplayed us. The Bills could have knocked the Jets out before halftime and didn't. We were not a good team against San Diego. Our defense couldn't stop Rivers and he picked us apart anytime he dropped back. EJ couldn't complete a pass and we couldn't run. Then, they got a 10 point lead and rushed 30 times for 2 YPC. And we never came back. I honestly have no idea what you are talking about concerning San Diego. They got a lot of their yards off pick plays and defensive guys falling down, especially early. That game was nothing like the Bills game. And Rivers making ridiculous passes he couldnt make every time. I'm talking about them stepping off the gas instead of on our throat. They rushed 30 times when it wasn't working and dared us to come back.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 We were not a good team against San Diego. Our defense couldn't stop Rivers and he picked us apart anytime he dropped back. EJ couldn't complete a pass and we couldn't run. Then, they got a 10 point lead and rushed 30 times for 2 YPC. And we never came back. We were thoroughly outplayed against San Diego. That happens. Let me rephrase it this way, does anyone think that the Jets should have only been down 7 at halftime? If the answer is "of course it should have been more" something went wrong. IMO, what went wrong is that the Bills didn't take advantage of the Jets mistakes. They squandered a couple of good opportunities and you can't do that when playing better opponents.
FireChan Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 We were thoroughly outplayed against San Diego. That happens. Let me rephrase it this way, does anyone think that the Jets should have only been down 7 at halftime? If the answer is "of course it should have been more" something went wrong. IMO, what went wrong is that the Bills didn't take advantage of the Jets mistakes. They squandered a couple of good opportunities and you can't do that when playing better opponents. We squandered a couple of good opportunities. Doesn't that happen to good teams too? Did the Pats not squander opportunities against us when we turned it over 3 times? Does anyone think we should've been down only 6 at half?
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 We squandered a couple of good opportunities. Doesn't that happen to good teams too? Did the Pats not squander opportunities against us when we turned it over 3 times? Does anyone think we should've been down only 6 at half? Teams squander opportunities all of the time but they do it trying to make plays. It's okay to get stopped; it's not okay to avoid challenging them. Errors of commission not omission
NoSaint Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 We squandered a couple of good opportunities. Doesn't that happen to good teams too? Did the Pats not squander opportunities against us when we turned it over 3 times? Does anyone think we should've been down only 6 at half? It does. But the fact that good teams aren't perfect doesn't mean we should be good with whatever happens just because it's happened to a good team before. It's a long season and every team has ups and downs. Yesterday should've been a big boost after some lackluster performances (17, 17, 22, 17, 10 points the last 5 weeks - San diego had that as a low game with a lot of 30+ around it...) and instead it was kind of the flattest explosion possible. That you are harping on the lowest scoring game San diego won as a comparable to our highest output is kind of telling I think.
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