Fire Hackett

[ALF]

Until the OL gets it together, I don't know if Hackett is ok or not. Plus put Mike W in there.

[GG]

So Coples is saying he knew every other play the Bills would run? He should play the lottery because if he knew the plays and still let them score 43 points then he isn't doing his job very well, is he?

 

See the post #376 above.

Edited October 27, 2014 by GG

[Kelly the Dog]

Ding ding ding.

 

 

 

I would say our tendency on first down in a short redzone is to run. Hackett took advantage of the defense's assumption and burned them. Just like he took advantage of the Vikings assumption with Sammy's first TD.

 

The thing about abusing the opposing defenses' assumption is that you have to give them grounds to assume in the first place. Just like how play-action doesn't work if you never run the ball. I won't take that away from Hackett, even if he makes some calls I don't agree with.

And I am saying that getting the ball on first down inside the one yard line, it is clear tendency of every single one of the 32 NFL teams, every single one of the 460 or so college football teams, and every single one of the 38,723 high school football teams to run. Every single opponent crowds the line to stop the team from running on every single time that happens. It is not indicative of whether or not youre a passing or running team. The Patriots throw about half the time like that and they still fool the defense every single time because you have to look for the run first.

[FireChan]

 

You don't build an offensive game plan intentionally playing like crap for most of the game so you can maybe fool the other team on one play later in the game. Come on man....

 

They aren't intentionally playing like crap. They're intentionally setting up the run. The players need to execute better, namely the offensive line. That's the big picture.

 

This is just like when everyone blamed Hackett because the passing game sucked. Then we got a competent QB and the passing game works now. It's the same thing with the run game.

 

 

And I am saying that getting the ball on first down inside the one yard line, it is clear tendency of every single one of the 32 NFL teams, every single one of the 460 or so college football teams, and every single one of the 38,723 high school football teams to run. Every single opponent crowds the line to stop the team from running on every single time that happens. It is not indicative of whether or not youre a passing or running team. The Patriots throw about half the time like that and they still fool the defense every single time because you have to look for the run first.

 

Ah; I didn't realize that was your point. That's fair to say.

[BigBuff423]

 

You don't say.

 

Brady and his legendary ability to adjust at halftime.

 

Funny how that happens....it's like...it's happened before...somewhere, sometime

[GG]

I don't really know. It doesn't make sense. That's why I'm not calling for coaches heads.

 

If you look at the roster changes, the most glaring ones are at G, so it's hard not to focus there. So while at the end of the days, it is up to the players to execute properly, it certainly appears that the coaches are not putting the best players on the field nor are they designing a game plan that caters to the strength of the roster.

[PolishDave]

They aren't intentionally playing like crap. They're intentionally setting up the run. The players need to execute better, namely the offensive line. That's the big picture.

This is just like when everyone blamed Hackett because the passing game sucked. Then we got a competent QB and the passing game works now. It's the same thing with the run game.

If you don't have the talent to execute one play, but you do have the talent to execute another play, then why not try to execute the one that you feel is more likely to result in moving the chains or possibly scoring.

 

Why keep running a play that has very little chance of success and even when it is successful results in a 4 or 5 yard gain? I could see you keep trying that low percentage play if there is a good chance you might score on that play (like a deep pass for example). But if the play is designed to get you 5 yards and you only execute it one or two times out of ten, why keep running it. You may as well take a shot at a play where you move the chains or score if it is executed properly.

[FireChan]

 

If you don't have the talent to execute one play, but you do have the talent to execute another play, then why not try to execute the one that you feel is more likely to result in moving the chains or possibly scoring.

 

Why keep running a play that has very little chance of success and even when it is successful results in a 4 or 5 yard gain? I could see you keep trying that low percentage play if there is a good chance you might score on that play (like a deep pass for example). But if the play is designed to get you 5 yards and you only execute it one or two times out of ten, why keep running it. You may as well take a shot at a play where you move the chains or score if it is executed properly.

 

Because there's a risk, a very high one, in the deep pass or passing in general. Looking at the last game, the Jets would be right back in the game if Orton threw one of his bad decision picks. Instead, we ran the football. And yeah, sometimes we ended up punting or kicking a field goal. But we never gave up momentum. Our D was dominating them, we were pinning them deep.

 

Do you really think we'd keep running the ball if the Jets scored on 3 straight possessions?

Edited October 27, 2014 by FireChan

[Rob's House]

 

I know it's a blast to play contrarian here, but can you identify (aside from the result) what you feel Hackett did really well in this game?

 

I'll start:

I do think they are doing a far better job of getting the ball into Watkins' hands even when he is covered, as seen in this game.

I do think they identified a problem at guard and that Urbik does improve the situation, as seen in this game.

The aforementioned Lee Smith play was very good.

The playcalling and execution after Sammy's gaffe was strong - and I just want to see more of this attack mentality. Past Bills teams could have been held to a FG after that momentum rollercoaster.

 

I'm not stumping for Hackett. Just adding perspective.

[JohnC]

 

i guess, what i would ask, is why our OL precludes us from having a WR come on the end around more often (real or just to create motion), or if we really want to pound it in the middle maybe even some inside handoffs to the FB to change the pace and tempo on the runs in the middle? just throwing a few random things out there that might leave SOME doubt in the minds of the lbs

 

Wasn't there an inside handoff to the FB (Summers) for a TD near the goal line?

 

You are well aware that our OL, especially the interior, is bad, really bad. Before you resort to gimmickery on offense you need to master the basics. The OL is working on mastering their A-B-Cs---they are not cloes to their X-Y-Zs.

 

As I stated in the prior post the more Orton plays the more the playbook will be expanded.

 

 

[NoSaint]

 

 

Wasn't there an inside handoff to the FB (Summers) for a TD near the goal line?

 

You are well aware that our OL, especially the interior, is bad, really bad. Before you resort to gimmickery on offense you need to master the basics. The OL is working on mastering their A-B-Cs---they are not cloes to their X-Y-Zs.

 

As I stated in the prior post the more Orton plays the more the playbook will be expanded.

 

There are things we could do that wouldn't change pears assignment on a play but might at least add wrinkles to the plan if we are going to insist on interior runs. You can keep a guys assignment very a, b, c and still run a middle of the alphabet scheme

[markgbe]

nah, we won the game and have a winning record. I'm pretty sure you don't fire people when you are winning.

 

This sounds about right for many people around here though.. lol "weh we're losing, FIRE them". "WEH we're wining, FIRE THEM"

Edited October 27, 2014 by markgbe

[infernus]

I'd really like to hear Orton's honest-no-bull **** thoughts on Hackett as his OC.. would be pretty telling coming from a 10-yr vet I think...

 

Too bad that'll never happen....

[JohnC]

I'd really like to hear Orton's honest-no-bull **** thoughts on Hackett as his OC.. would be pretty telling coming from a 10-yr vet I think...

 

Too bad that'll never happen....

 

The game plan is worked out in advance. As a veteran qb I'm sure he has input that is considered. As a starting veteran qb he has the authority to change the play at the line of scrimmage. It doesn't appear that he is altering the play at the line of scrimmage too often? It wouldn't be too surprising that the approach to the game is due to the fact that our OL is poor and there is an emphasis on protecting the qb. If he gets hurt because he is over-exposed the chances for this team are minimal.

[thewildrabbit]

I can recall a 40 plus page thread defending Dick Jauron, and all the insanity of keeping Turk Schonert as OC right up until Ole Dickie fired him two weeks before the season opener. Then instead of reaching out to an experienced OC he promotes the QB coach again. Turk Schonert was the QB coach before Steve Fairchild left to be the HC at Colorado St, and Skeletor promoted him to OC.

 

Bills fans were defending Chan Gailey right up until GM Buddy Nix stated he is my guy in 2014, and beyond...and then shortly after he fired him.

 

 

The current offensive coaches are just plain bad, and to the current tune of #28 in the NFL bad. The O line after two off seasons is the worst in the NFL and mostly because two of the worst OG's in the league. How long should Marrone & Hackett get a pass? If not for Orton and HIS two last min drive heroics, and one with one second left on the game clock the Bills are 3-5.

 

I suppose some fans just feel the need to defend the stupid, and hapless coaches no matter who or why. Didn't George Edwards & Dave Wannstedt have their loyal supporters too?

 

 

 

Oh, and if Sammy Watkins can get 157 yards and a TD on only 3 catches, just think what he could have done if he caught 10. I just hope I don't have to see another year of these offensive clowns, and I also hope another team doesn't steal Schwartz.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

Because there's a risk, a very high one, in the deep pass or passing in general. Looking at the last game, the Jets would be right back in the game if Orton threw one of his bad decision picks. Instead, we ran the football. And yeah, sometimes we ended up punting or kicking a field goal. But we never gave up momentum. Our D was dominating them, we were pinning them deep.

 

Do you really think we'd keep running the ball if the Jets scored on 3 straight possessions?

No, and we do throw when behind. But we weren't, so we didn't.

[Prickly Pete]

There is no way he will be let go during this season. Our only hope is the offseason. But I actually think Marrone is more responsible for the offensive approach than Hackett. I think Marrone and Hackett discuss the approach that he wants Hackett to take going into, and during, the games. I would expect that Marrone told Hackett to go extra-super-time-killing-run-heavy, sometime around mid 3rd quarter, and then Hackett would call the plays.

 

I think Marrone will always play it "safe as milk". It will be nice to finally get to "respectable", finally winning games against mediocre teams. It's been a long time since they have been good enough to do that. But there will need to be a change to get up into that "Top 4 Team" level. Marrone will never get there.

Edited October 27, 2014 by HoF Watkins

[Chuck Schick]

I've come to the conclusion that the generally poor play-calling is just a symptom of an overall offensive strategy that Hackett/Marrone have in place. I remember them banging the "analytics" drum a while back, and this is what they came up with.

I could easily see them looking at NFL games and concluding that in order to win, the first step is to not get blown out. If you can keep a game close, even mediocre teams will be in position to win games in the 4th quarter. The logic would then be to avoid turnovers (especially pick-6 INTs) and win the field position battle.

Even though this makes sense, I think our current team does not fit well with this strategy. Our offense is more of a quick-strike type than a grind-it-down-the-field type. Our QB is going to throw picks, our O-line will get a bunch of holding penalties, so we need a strategy that allows the offense more chances at big plays to offset the mistakes. I think.

[bigK14094]

Setting aside the Jets game, Hackett has failed to deliver the advertise run game. Last year, lots of yards, but yds per carry was not great. finished high in rushing because they ran so much, not because they were great at it. run game is even worse this year.......especially without the #1,2 backs.....The recent successes of the offense fall on finally having a pro QB. The bills o is still in the bottom third of the league.........So, I say, Hackett takes a fail......now, since we are talking coaches, although things have not been as agreious as last year, I am still no fan of Crossman.....other than the kicking game....I have not seen great plays....on a regular basis. To many holding penalities.....has to be coaching, can't be that many dumb guys on the Bills. So, keep the rest, let the other two gracefully move on....unless , of course, Marrone wants to pull a Wade like move, throw his body in the road in front of these two guys......(Wade protected Ronnie White, I think it was, and Ralph fired them both, then)

[Rob's House]

I can recall a 40 plus page thread defending Dick Jauron, and all the insanity of keeping Turk Schonert as OC right up until Ole Dickie fired him two weeks before the season opener. Then instead of reaching out to an experienced OC he promotes the QB coach again. Turk Schonert was the QB coach before Steve Fairchild left to be the HC at Colorado St, and Skeletor promoted him to OC.

 

Bills fans were defending Chan Gailey right up until GM Buddy Nix stated he is my guy in 2014, and beyond...and then shortly after he fired him.

 

 

The current offensive coaches are just plain bad, and to the current tune of #28 in the NFL bad. The O line after two off seasons is the worst in the NFL and mostly because two of the worst OG's in the league. How long should Marrone & Hackett get a pass? If not for Orton and HIS two last min drive heroics, and one with one second left on the game clock the Bills are 3-5.

 

I suppose some fans just feel the need to defend the stupid, and hapless coaches no matter who or why. Didn't George Edwards & Dave Wannstedt have their loyal supporters too?

 

 

 

Oh, and if Sammy Watkins can get 157 yards and a TD on only 3 catches, just think what he could have done if he caught 10. I just hope I don't have to see another year of these offensive clowns, and I also hope another team doesn't steal Schwartz.

 

Wanndstedt had some support because of the defenses he'd coached in the past, but any support he had dried up after that debacle against the 9ers.

 

And not to poke fun, but weren't you a huge EJ supporter?