Kelly the Dog Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I know that the knee-jerk around here is to call that Jauron-ball, some gutless play not to lose ball, but when your opponent turns the ball over habitually...it's the right way to play. Also, it worked. So... Would New England have done that? Denver? San Francisco? I sincerely doubt that Seattle would have done that (Carroll would have gone for the jugular).
The Big Cat Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Would New England have done that? Denver? San Francisco? I sincerely doubt that Seattle would have done that (Carroll would have gone for the jugular). San Fran? May be. They've made their living on a being a ground and pound team. Also, we're being awfully silly if our standard for offensive protocol is set based on what's done by two teams with quarterbacks in the discussion for best of all time.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Easy. Bills had Gs in there last year who at least played the position in the NFL. That was the only play. In the postgame interview, Coples said that the Smith TD was the only unexpected thing the Bills did all day. Everything else, he said was very routine. That was a nice play and call. Except that every single team in the NFL, and NCAA does that from the one yard line.
The Big Cat Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Also, this is a very convenient, very sweeping statement to make about Carroll. That was a nice play and call. Except that every single team in the NFL, and NCAA does that from the one yard line. I see. So when it works, it doesn't count.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 That was the only play. In the postgame interview, Coples said that the Smith TD was the only unexpected thing the Bills did all day. Everything else, he said was very routine. So Coples is saying he knew every other play the Bills would run? He should play the lottery because if he knew the plays and still let them score 43 points then he isn't doing his job very well, is he?
FireChan Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Also, this is a very convenient, very sweeping statement to make about Carroll. I see. So when it works, it doesn't count. No no no, he's saying it was very obvious and everyone knew it was gonna happen. That's why it worked.... Hey wait a second.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 And again the target on why we're pissed at Hackett shifts. Seriously, look at the drive chart. When Vick subbed in and caught our defense off-guard (as admitted to by KW in the post game, but Schwartz made the appropriate half time adjustments), they brought the score to 14-7. Then we threw the ball 84 yards down the middle of the field. The complaints in this thread do not reflect the reality of the game we were playing yesterday. Things either didn't happen the way people are claiming they did, or weren't nearly as inappropriate as they're being framed, given the game situations. You mean the 84 yard play when we abandoned the stupid 2-3 TE formation, spread the field, went three wide and threw the 84 yard pass? That play?
PolishDave Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I don't really know. It doesn't make sense. That's why I'm not calling for coaches heads. I would say that a large part of the reason the running game got worse this year is because the Bills ran so frequently last year. When the teams analyze the Bills in preparation for an upcoming game, they say "the Bills are a run first team". Naturally they try to take away the run. Teams have been more successful at it this year compared to last because they have more than a full year's game film to review. And it appears that "for the most part" Hackett continues trying to do what they did last year and what they did earlier this year (in regards to the run game) which obviously isn't working very well. You would think that any coach in his situation would try mixing things up more. For example, he could try running the ball out of different formations than he is doing now. Or he could try more play action passes instead of actually handing the ball off. Or he could try running plays that use different personnel in different situations like Wildcat or something else that hasn't been tried by this team recently.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 No no no, he's saying it was very obvious and everyone knew it was gonna happen. That's why it worked.... Hey wait a second. No, I was saying literally, from the one yard line, it is no genius play to once in a while, fake it into the line and throw to a wide open TE. Literally every single team does that. It is also no reason to say he passes on first down. It's an outlier because it's at the one yard line.
FireChan Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) No, I was saying literally, from the one yard line, it is no genius play to once in a while, fake it into the line and throw to a wide open TE. Literally every single team does that. It is also no reason to say he passes on first down. It's an outlier because it's at the one yard line. Right. It doesn't matter because of some arbitrary "it's so obvious" distinction. I don't buy it. If it was so obvious, they would've stopped it, no? Edited October 27, 2014 by FireChan
Kelly the Dog Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Also, this is a very convenient, very sweeping statement to make about Carroll. I see. So when it works, it doesn't count. I was only counting the best teams, didn't care who the QB was. If you watched Pete Carroll for years and years he often goes for the jugular even when he has run based teams. The Bills probably didn't go for the jugular after any of the six turnovers because they tried it once last week and it went for a TD. Right. It doesn't matter because of some arbitrary "it's so obvious" distinction. Do you honestly want to say that from the one yard line it shows a tendency for the OC to throw on first down? On a play like that. Drives that start at the one or two yard line are their own unique entity. And I said right off the bat that it was a nice play.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I was only counting the best teams, didn't care who the QB was. If you watched Pete Carroll for years and years he often goes for the jugular even when he has run based teams. The Bills probably didn't go for the jugular after any of the six turnovers because they tried it once last week and it went for a TD. Do you honestly want to say that from the one yard line it shows a tendency for the OC to throw on first down? On a play like that. Drives that start at the one or two yard line are their own unique entity. And I said right off the bat that it was a nice play. To be fair, it's set up by the fact that people are likelier to expect the Spanish Inquisition than an effective play with distinguished NFL tight end Lee Smith.
PolishDave Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) In Hackett's defense I would have to say that play calling inside the Red Zone has gotten better. They are scoring more often inside the red zone than they were before. I am sure a lot of that has to do with Orton though. But, Hackett probably deserves some credit for that also. Outside of the Red Zone his play calling and formations are often questionable. P.S. If Fred Jackson is healthy, does Hackett even make that play call to Lee Smith? Maybe? Maybe not huh? Edited October 27, 2014 by PolishDave
Rob's House Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 We turned the ball over 3 times to NE in the first half & they were only down 6 at the half. They should fire their OC.
FireChan Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 We turned the ball over 3 times to NE in the first half & they were only down 6 at the half. They should fire their OC. Ding ding ding. I was only counting the best teams, didn't care who the QB was. If you watched Pete Carroll for years and years he often goes for the jugular even when he has run based teams. The Bills probably didn't go for the jugular after any of the six turnovers because they tried it once last week and it went for a TD. Do you honestly want to say that from the one yard line it shows a tendency for the OC to throw on first down? On a play like that. Drives that start at the one or two yard line are their own unique entity. And I said right off the bat that it was a nice play. I would say our tendency on first down in a short redzone is to run. Hackett took advantage of the defense's assumption and burned them. Just like he took advantage of the Vikings assumption with Sammy's first TD. The thing about abusing the opposing defenses' assumption is that you have to give them grounds to assume in the first place. Just like how play-action doesn't work if you never run the ball. I won't take that away from Hackett, even if he makes some calls I don't agree with.
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Right. It doesn't matter because of some arbitrary "it's so obvious" distinction. I don't buy it. If it was so obvious, they would've stopped it, no? they did pretty consistently. outside of sammy breaking a tackle once, and getting behind the D once, we didnt have all that much offense. after that first long drive, 2 TDs were 1 and 14 yard drives and 2 were sammy being sammy on 80 yard chunk gains. we had 2 different drives that were negative yards that put up points. scrap our first and last and we were -1, 5, 1, 92 (84 being sammy), 4, -4, -4, 9, 3, -1, 14, and 71 (sammy 61).
PolishDave Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 The thing about abusing the opposing defenses' assumption is that you have to give them grounds to assume in the first place. Just like how play-action doesn't work if you never run the ball. I won't take that away from Hackett, even if he makes some calls I don't agree with. You don't build an offensive game plan intentionally playing like crap for most of the game so you can maybe fool the other team on one play later in the game. Come on man....
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 We turned the ball over 3 times to NE in the first half & they were only down 6 at the half. They should fire their OC. I know it's a blast to play contrarian here, but can you identify (aside from the result) what you feel Hackett did really well in this game? I'll start: I do think they are doing a far better job of getting the ball into Watkins' hands even when he is covered, as seen in this game. I do think they identified a problem at guard and that Urbik does improve the situation, as seen in this game. The aforementioned Lee Smith play was very good. The playcalling and execution after Sammy's gaffe was strong - and I just want to see more of this attack mentality. Past Bills teams could have been held to a FG after that momentum rollercoaster.
BigBuff423 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 We turned the ball over 3 times to NE in the first half & they were only down 6 at the half. They should fire their OC. He left once...for an Orton driven Offense, only to turn it over to Tebow...hmmm, maybe its Brady that makes the difference??
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 He left once...for an Orton driven Offense, only to turn it over to Tebow...hmmm, maybe its Brady that makes the difference?? You don't say. Brady and his legendary ability to adjust at halftime.
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