PolishDave Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Also, here are those stats First downs: http://goo.gl/bycG9h Second downs: http://goo.gl/2YvXAS Dude...you linked to a spam site. Makes you answer surveys in order to read content = SPAM
The Big Cat Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 And turnovers aren't predictable. We can't just sit back and say, "well the Jets should give us another 3 turnovers so lets just run run run run run all day". You play that way it's going to bite you in the butt. You have to play to win the game on your side of the ball and not wait for plays to be made elsewhere. There are when you're playing Smith/Vick. If you argue to the contrary, then you don't know a whole lot about our division. Dude...you linked to a spam site. Makes you answer surveys in order to read content = SPAM Yeah, no. Creative diversion though.
bobobonators Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 We have? How is that possible when the previous 3 games the Bills passed 43, 38 and 43 times. They have run 19, 23 and 20 times in each of those games. Go pull up the threads. There's plenty of them floating around. You act like this is a first time occurrence with NH.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Okay. Except you play against the team that's on the schedule that week. Why would they have rolled out a gameplan fit for the Patriots* when they were playing the Jets? It is about maximizing opportunities. There is no benefit to getting the ball at their 40 running 2 dives, throwing an incompletion and punting. There were opportunities to go for the throat and put the game away. The Jets were atrocious in the 1st half and it was a 1 score game at halftime. You can't let bad teams hang around. It almost killed the Bills vs. the Vikings. The Bills scored 43 points but probably should have been closer to 60. Some weeks you maybe should only score 17 because those were the opportunities that you had. You need to make the most of the chances that you get.
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Which are you referring to? I'm genuinely interested in crunching these stats. i was saying the 1st down plays yesterday - probably after the first drive (i think we had a few good ones out of the gate).... id guess slightly over half were 2 or fewer yards, and generally speaking most of the rest were minimally above
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Okay. Except you play against the team that's on the schedule that week. Why would they have rolled out a gameplan fit for the Patriots* when they were playing the Jets? Is gaining 15 yards total on the first down after 6 turnovers part of the gameplan? What makes the same pass play that you would run on third-and-long risky on first down? If anything it is less expected given the patterns that this team has shown on film.
bobobonators Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 There are when you're playing Smith/Vick. If you argue to the contrary, then you don't know a whole lot about our division. Yeah, no. Creative diversion though. You're right, only you know something about our division.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 It is about maximizing opportunities. There is no benefit to getting the ball at their 40 running 2 dives, throwing an incompletion and punting. There were opportunities to go for the throat and put the game away. The Jets were atrocious in the 1st half and it was a 1 score game at halftime. You can't let bad teams hang around. It almost killed the Bills vs. the Vikings. The Bills scored 43 points but probably should have been closer to 60. Some weeks you maybe should only score 17 because those were the opportunities that you had. You need to make the most of the chances that you get. Bingo. I was there and this was obvious.
PolishDave Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 No, actually the debate about Hackett's playcalling dates all the back to week 2 LAST year. But to say that the complaints have stayed exactly the same, that's false. They change every time to satisfy the "Hackett sucks" narrative that so many posters here seem desperate to come to fruition. Earlier this year after the first 2 games I claimed that I thought Hackett was improving because he was mixing in some better play calling. But since then I am convinced those games were anomalies. He is back to calling crap 1970's football offense. Except he has found a way to make that play calling incredible predictable. I honestly thought he was learning from his experience and getting better as the season was progressing. Now I think I was wrong in my optimism. He refuses to take full advantage of the weapons he has at his disposal and instead continues to force this team to play "his" style of offense that it is simply not good at.
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Is gaining 15 yards total on the first down after 6 turnovers part of the gameplan? What makes the same pass play that you would run on third-and-long risky on first down? If anything it is less expected given the patterns that this team has shown on film. i know it was a weird game with starting field position sometimes not allowing long drives and a couple big plays ending drives fast but outside our first and last drive, sammy getting caught was our only drive to go more than 4 plays.
Captain Hindsight Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I would love to see what Hackett could do with an elite talent at QB. Thats all this team is missing. But even with that considered we put up 43 on a good defense in NJ, had 250 yards passing and a 100 yard receiver
PolishDave Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 It is about maximizing opportunities. There is no benefit to getting the ball at their 40 running 2 dives, throwing an incompletion and punting. There were opportunities to go for the throat and put the game away. The Jets were atrocious in the 1st half and it was a 1 score game at halftime. You can't let bad teams hang around. It almost killed the Bills vs. the Vikings. The Bills scored 43 points but probably should have been closer to 60. Some weeks you maybe should only score 17 because those were the opportunities that you had. You need to make the most of the chances that you get. Yes....Yes.... Lots of opportunities to go for the throat and end the game early. How often do you get that many opportunities? I want a team that takes every opportunity and tries to put it away. Then go ahead and sit on the football for all I care.
Wayne Cubed Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Go pull up the threads. There's plenty of them floating around. You act like this is a first time occurrence with NH. I remember the threads quite well and they were a lot of "We are passing too much."
The Big Cat Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Go pull up the threads. There's plenty of them floating around. You act like this is a first time occurrence with NH. You're conveniently ignoring the substance of what both he AND I have already told you about this. If YOU dug up the threads, you'd find a scattershot of critiques, just as I've said. It is about maximizing opportunities. There is no benefit to getting the ball at their 40 running 2 dives, throwing an incompletion and punting. There were opportunities to go for the throat and put the game away. The Jets were atrocious in the 1st half and it was a 1 score game at halftime. You can't let bad teams hang around. It almost killed the Bills vs. the Vikings. The Bills scored 43 points but probably should have been closer to 60. Some weeks you maybe should only score 17 because those were the opportunities that you had. You need to make the most of the chances that you get. And what I've been arguing all morning is that more important that "maximizing opportunities" was minimizing mistakes, knowing how prone the opponent was to making them. Does this not compute? i was saying the 1st down plays yesterday - probably after the first drive (i think we had a few good ones out of the gate).... id guess slightly over half were 2 or fewer yards, and generally speaking most of the rest were minimally above Okay, well, the stats on this are undeniable, sit tight and I'll confirm. Is gaining 15 yards total on the first down after 6 turnovers part of the gameplan? What makes the same pass play that you would run on third-and-long risky on first down? If anything it is less expected given the patterns that this team has shown on film. Obviously it wasn't. But not giving THEM opportunities to tee-off on our quarterback, get fumbles or interceptions WAS. And what played into that game plan was the Jets propensity to give away the ball. Their game against the Pats* was an aberration. Yesterday's game was going to/did come down to who would make fewer mistakes. I know that the knee-jerk around here is to call that Jauron-ball, some gutless play not to lose ball, but when your opponent turns the ball over habitually...it's the right way to play. Also, it worked. So...
bobobonators Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I remember the threads quite well and they were a lot of "We are passing too much." It's not about running too much or passing too much - it's about the PREDICTABILITY AND LACK OF CREATIVITY. It was the same argument week 1 and it it's the same argument week 8. It was argued in the CJ threads; it was argued in the Hackett is really bad thread; and it's argued in THIS THREAD.
GunnerBill Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I was one of the people saying we were passing too much and you will not find me saying anywhere that we ran too much. It is precisely the flippy floppy, things in, things out, run heavy, pass heavy nature of this offense and the offensive game planning that worries me. What is the identity of this offense? What are the core things we are trying to achieve? I remain perplexed by it all.
The Big Cat Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I was one of the people saying we were passing too much and you will not find me saying anywhere that we ran too much. It is precisely the flippy floppy, things in, things out, run heavy, pass heavy nature of this offense and the offensive game planning that worries me. What is the identity of this offense? What are the core things we are trying to achieve? I remain perplexed by it all. And you don't see a benefit of going into the bye week 5-3 with the rest of the league wondering the same thing?
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 i know it was a weird game with starting field position sometimes not allowing long drives and a couple big plays ending drives fast but outside our first and last drive, sammy getting caught was our only drive to go more than 4 plays. Right. And I think extending drives is about a blend of 1) doing what you're good at 2) exposing the weaknesses of the defense, and 3) knowing your tendencies and refusing to fall into them completely We're not good at the up the gut runs - our guards and center aren't functioning well enough in the run game to create holes, and furthermore, the play selection and formations really signal our ambitions. The formation made pretty clear what play was coming next, a bulk of the time. Now, we finally have a player (Watkins) who can beat you even when that play is obvious, so this helps. In the run game, Fred Jackson has unique vision and after-contact skills that we don't yet see in most of our backs, either, so I think we need an adjustment there, in his absence. We did well enough at #2 but could have done more. I think that's what most Hackett critics are saying. #3 is the kind of strategy that NE is famous for. They blend what they are unstoppable at (Gronk, quick screens) with playcalling that isn't predictable, and it yields success year-round. Now, as the year continues, we'll see if Brady swoons like he did last playoffs, or if Gronk's health takes a downward turn, and that will limit them more. But we've got a great deal of our options at hand, and the ones that aren't available or clicking are in the run game as it is currently employed. What's the definition of insanity again? Mind you that this is all coming from "RuntheDamnBall."
The Big Cat Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) i was saying the 1st down plays yesterday - probably after the first drive (i think we had a few good ones out of the gate).... id guess slightly over half were 2 or fewer yards, and generally speaking most of the rest were minimally above Okay, first downs yesterday: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19E6nWc07RVVsTvB-ebQwu67O7l_2QSkrvC-INENlLDc/edit?usp=sharing Runs: 16 Passes: 4 Run yards: 47 Pass Yards: 33 Run breakdown: Negative: 1 0: 0 1: 4 2: 0 3: 2 4: 4 5: 2 6: 1 7: 1 Edited October 27, 2014 by The Big Cat
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Okay, well, the stats on this are undeniable, sit tight and I'll confirm. im curious to see and appreciate you taking the time to check. id be surprised if i am "right" but would also be surprised if i was far off too. take out sammy getting caught from behind and penalties and we went like 40 minutes without a first down. on the bright side, a few of those did end in TDs though.
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