Fire Hackett

[Fan in Chicago]

Making the playoffs for the first time in 15 years isn't a "get out of jail free" card.

 

Neither is it a rallying cry for 'cleaning house' as was the premise to this discussion

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

The Bills 2nd touchdown... The short pass to the TE, had everyone fooled... I don't think anyone thought that play was going to be anything but a run... I thought to myself, Hacket is a Genius.... Well for one play.. lol

[bobobonators]

Fans have been saying NH is bad for weeks now. Many questioned whether or not it was EJ or NH or both. After 4 games with Orton, it's clear that the problem was both NH and EJ and now only NH remains as a problem.

 

His lack of creativity is offensive. Nobody is saying that we shouldn't run the ball. But what about the runs that we're calling - it's essentially the same play over and over again. It's not just this week - though this week was embarrassing - it's been all season. Fans have said it and now even the media says how predictable our playcalling is.

 

All season: no sweeps, almost no screens, no misdirection runs, little play action, etc. All season, not just against the Jets. All season.

 

People keep saying that we won the game so lay off. That's fine, but we had 6 turnovers that game and that's not going to happen every week. Schwartz and the defense get the credit - not NH. Being up one score at half time after all those turnovers is an embarrassment and everyone knows it. Raise your hand if you felt good going in at half time? NH had zero to do with those turnovers so why should anyone lay off of him? People can continue to be blind to it this week b/c we "won" but it's going to cost us sooner rather than later.

 

His job is to call plays that result in points on every drive - that's his job in a nutshell. And he sucks at it more often than not.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I feel like we're giving Marrone too much of a free pass on the play calling. He is the head coach and is responsible for the entire team which includes Hacketts play calling. The fact that nothing has changed with the play calling all season, and now it might be at an all time low after the Jets game concerns me about Marrone. I blame much of the offensive line woes on predictable play calling that allows other team's D to just tee-off on the Bills.

 

Regardless, the Bills offense is getting frustrating to the point where it's unbearable to even watch! Run Run Pass Repeat!

I agree with you sentiments. As for changes for going forward, I hope during the bye week that Marrone makes some changes. Perhaps he "involves" other people on the staff to help the "overburdened" Hackett. This is the only measure, along with perhaps an acquisition on the O-line, that I could reasonably see during the season.

[GG]

If an evaluator tells Terry to clean house after the Bills make the playoffs then he's an idiot.

 

Not necessarily. This team is built to be much more dominant. The basic question that the advisers should be asking is, "Are the coaches getting the maximum out of this roster?"

 

This isn't Ralph's team anymore and things will be run differently. If Marrone runs the table, safe to assume he's safe. If they back into the playoffs with a lot of help from other teams, then there will be much more scrutiny. Suffice to say, despite a 5-3 start, nobody's job is secure at this moment.

[Fan in Chicago]

 

i bet theres middle ground between clean house and make adjustments to the staff. would reviewing whether hackett is the guy at the end of the season qualify as a reasonable question?

 

I argue that this 'middle ground' needs to be a constant for any organization whether coming off a winning or losing season. Cannot stand still in the NFL

[C.Biscuit97]

I agree and said as much earlier in the thread. Marrone has more than a little Jauron in him.

 

I thought the whole point in hiring a college guy was they were going to do something different. Marrone is Jauron. Run first offense, settle for field goals, punt inside the 50 yard line.

 

The only difference at this point between Marrone and Jauron is we have a far superior team talent wise. Our talent is winning games.

[bobobonators]

 

I agree and said as much earlier in the thread. Marrone has more than a little Jauron in him.

 

I agree. Ultimately Marrone is responsible for NH and his mickey mouse plays.

 

 

 

I thought the whole point in hiring a college guy was they were going to do something different. Marrone is Jauron. Run first offense, settle for field goals, punt inside the 50 yard line.

 

The only difference at this point between Marrone and Jauron is we have a far superior team talent wise. Our talent is winning games.

 

100% agree. The fact that many people can see that we're actually winning DESPITE our coaches/gameplans is a positive at least. The talent is there.

[Rob's House]

 

Call me crazy but they don't match up well with us. We should win this game based solely on that.

 

I don't think that's crazy at all. I expect Charles to have trouble finding running lanes and don't expect Smith to be up to the challenge of carrying the team in the face of our pass rush. Unless our offense lays an egg I could easily see another lopsided victory.

[Fan in Chicago]

I thought the whole point in hiring a college guy was they were going to do something different. Marrone is Jauron. Run first offense, settle for field goals, punt inside the 50 yard line.

 

The only difference at this point between Marrone and Jauron is we have a far superior team talent wise. Our talent is winning games.

 

I recall Jauron's teams being soft and conservative no matter who the opponent. It bears watching but the run/pass ratio by Marrone appears to be tuned to the opponent and the game situation.

[thewildrabbit]

It is difficult to have more creativity to your running game when your two best runners are hurt and the OL, as it is presenty playing, is one of the worst in the league. Without a doubt those factors curtail your options.

 

Orton is playing very well. His efficiency is very good. A source of that success can be attributed to the relatively conservative way he is being used. You have to remember that he came to this team very late and even when he was on the roster he was not getting starting reps. The more he plays and gets familiar with the players the more expansive his game will become.

 

The Jet game was a unique situation. It was very apparent that with Smith and a rusty Vick that our defense had their offense under control. That certainly played a major role into how the game was called. Don't allow this individual game to make assumptions on how the future game plans will develop.

 

Take the win and the positives out of this game. Appreciate that the Bills are in a favorable situation that they haven't been in for more than a decade. The team is still very far from being a finished product. Even with its flaws this team is moving in the right direction.

The thing is he wasn't used in a conservative manor at all at first. His first game, Detroit 43 passes, 2 sacks, his second game. New England 38 passes, 5 sacks. His third game, 43 passes, 6 sacks.

 

I can see that the Bills tried to run it more against the Jets in order to keep Orton from getting killed. Still, there is no excuse for the way this offense runs the ball. They ran it the exact same way with Spiller and Jackson, and the only difference being is that because CJ & Fredex are so talented they also made Mr Can't Hackett look somewhat competent.

73% of the time up the middle is ineffective, and it was almost hilarious to watch Boobie try and bounce it outside like Spiller does because there is no hole.

 

The offense has gotten worse to #28 now, Schwartz & Orton are the bigger reasons why this team is 5-3. Please stop making excuses for these offensive loser coaches.

[Alaska Darin]

Neither is it a rallying cry for 'cleaning house' as was the premise to this discussion

No one said anything "rallying cry" but when you spend a billion dollars plus and the business you inherited hasn't been successful for a very long time, there's no stone you leave unturned.

[The Frankish Reich]

We'll see when the All 22 comes out, but it sure felt like the Jets were stacking the box to stop the run -- that's why Watkins was open deep twice in a row; the first time Orton missed, the second time he didn't (but Sammy celebrated too soon). So the run-run-pass is frustrating, but at the same time we have to recognize that you don't get those Sammy one-on-one situations if the defense knows you've abandoned the run. All I'm saying is this: what Hackett did worked yesterday against the Jets. Not that the same strategy will work against the Chiefs, or in some other game where we fall behind instead of jumping out ahead. Orton has already had games where he's thrown 40 passes, so it's not like this is the Tebow offense or anything. Let's give Hackett a break this week. We think the Bills could've put away the Jets early if they had opened it up a bit, but we don't know that -- it could've been strip sack/tipped ball INT, who knows if they had decided to pass more instead of running. What we do know is that ultraconservative play calling with the lead wound up with us winning quite comfortably. I'm actually kind of o.k. with winning comfortably ...

[C.Biscuit97]

I recall Jauron's teams being soft and conservative no matter who the opponent. It bears watching but the run/pass ratio by Marrone appears to be tuned to the opponent and the game situation.

 

Not really. The Giants rushed for like 200 yards against the Texans the week before we played them. We passed 44 times agaisnt them. The Jets have a terrible secondary and good run defense. We ran a ton.

 

I do agree about the physical part. But part of that is simply having better players. We have legit studs. Jauron wasn't good here but I think he got the most talent out of a lot of his players. Besides the defense, who can we say that about?

[5 Wide]

Was Marrone calling plays yesterday??? A few times with the Bills on offense, they showed Marrone, with the playsheet covering his mouth as he was talking into the headset.... it looked like he was calling plays.

[bobobonators]

We'll see when the All 22 comes out, but it sure felt like the Jets were stacking the box to stop the run -- that's why Watkins was open deep twice in a row; the first time Orton missed, the second time he didn't (but Sammy celebrated too soon). So the run-run-pass is frustrating, but at the same time we have to recognize that you don't get those Sammy one-on-one situations if the defense knows you've abandoned the run. All I'm saying is this: what Hackett did worked yesterday against the Jets. Not that the same strategy will work against the Chiefs, or in some other game where we fall behind instead of jumping out ahead. Orton has already had games where he's thrown 40 passes, so it's not like this is the Tebow offense or anything. Let's give Hackett a break this week. We think the Bills could've put away the Jets early if they had opened it up a bit, but we don't know that -- it could've been strip sack/tipped ball INT, who knows if they had decided to pass more instead of running. What we do know is that ultraconservative play calling with the lead wound up with us winning quite comfortably. I'm actually kind of o.k. with winning comfortably ...

 

I understand what you're saying but there's not point in arguing two extremes - nobody is saying to abandon the run. But at the same time, calling the same run, run, pass setup countless times resulting in 3 and outs is unacceptable. We weren't running the ball effectively, so why continue the same pattern over and over again. It only sets us up for a likely 3 and out which is exactly what happened over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. NH is dumb as a stump.

 

Here's a thought NH:

 

Pass, run, run

Pass, Pass, run

Run, Pass, run

Run, Pass, Pass

Pass, Run, Pass

Run, Run, Run

Pass, Pass, Pass

 

You have options NH.

Edited October 27, 2014 by bobobonators

[TC in St. Louis]

When the Jets kicked the FG to cut the lead to 7, I was certain we would lose the game. Fortunately, the defense made a bunch of adjustments to stop Vick. He's fast, etc.

 

But the playcalling. We had turnovers inside the 50 numerous times, and lost yards. Hackett is horrible. I can't believe that the new owner can put up with more of this nonsense.

 

Bryce Brown should get the majority of the snaps. It's not his fault they handed him the ball with Sheldon Richardson standing one inch from his face. Bryce is fast, he needs to be the lead running back.

[Rob's House]

 

 

Not really. The Giants rushed for like 200 yards against the Texans the week before we played them. We passed 44 times agaisnt them. The Jets have a terrible secondary and good run defense. We ran a ton.

 

I do agree about the physical part. But part of that is simply having better players. We have legit studs. Jauron wasn't good here but I think he got the most talent out of a lot of his players. Besides the defense, who can we say that about?

 

This is extremely lazy analysis. If you look at the game situation the # of passes makes sense.

 

They started with 3 consecutive passes to set up the run. After that it was a very balanced attack. There was a lot of passing at the end of the half, trying to get in scoring position with time running out. There was also quite a bit of passing down 2 scores in the 4th quarter.

 

But only an idiot goes run heavy on the two minute drill to make the box score run:pass ratio look to be in accordance with the initial game plan.

[PolishDave]

I feel like we're giving Marrone too much of a free pass on the play calling. He is the head coach and is responsible for the entire team which includes Hacketts play calling. The fact that nothing has changed with the play calling all season, and now it might be at an all time low after the Jets game concerns me about Marrone. I blame much of the offensive line woes on predictable play calling that allows other team's D to just tee-off on the Bills.

I think you are right here by mentioning that Marrone shouldn't get a free pass. He must buy into this idea that they should continue to pound the rock where they know it won't go. If he wasn't mentally in sync with Hackett on how this offense is being run, then he would certainly make something change. So, this continued bullheaded "pound the rock into the same spot on a brick wall hoping it will eventually break" mentality that they insist on carrying forward game after game shows you that Marrone is satisfied with Hackett's decisions. That means no change at OC even after this season is over I think. Maybe as the season plays out, that scenario will change, but if this team is .500 or better at the end of the year, you can bet we will be seeing more of this same crappy offense next year.

 

This coaching staff was handed modern weaponry (guns and missiles) to take into battle. Yet they choose to fight with sticks and stones instead. Maddening.

[The Frankish Reich]

I understand what you're saying but there's not point in arguing two extremes - nobody is saying to abandon the run. But at the same time, calling the same run, run, pass setup countless times resulting in 3 and outs is unacceptable. We weren't running the ball effectively, so why continue the same pattern over and over again. It only sets us up for a likely 3 and out which is exactly what happened over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. NH is dumb as a stump.

Allow me to go all Zen on you: The Running Game Doesn't Have to Be Effective to Be Effective. I don't have a Tebow obsession, but living in Colorado when Tebow took over for Orton and watching the difference in results taught me a valuable lesson, and it's this: the Broncos offense sucked under Tebow! Most of the time the run game gained less than 3 yards per carry. But it suckered defenses into doing dangerous things like putting 9 men in the box, and even though Tebow couldn't throw to save his life we got plays like the OT "catch and run" vs. the Steelers that won a playoff game -- there's was literally nobody back 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage to catch D. Thomas after he broke a tackle of the guy covering him. I think we saw a little of that yesterday. It's boring, it's frustrating ... but against bad offenses it can work! To paraphrase Woody, 90% of football is just showing up and not doing anything stupid, like turning the ball over when your opponent is in the middle of an almost unprecedented offensive meltdown.