NoSaint Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) It is difficult to have more creativity to your running game when your two best runners are hurt and the OL, as it is presenty playing, is one of the worst in the league. Without a doubt those factors curtail your options. Orton is playing very well. His efficiency is very good. A source of that success can be attributed to the relatively conservative way he is being used. You have to remember that he came to this team very late and even when he was on the roster he was not getting starting reps. The more he plays and gets familiar with the players the more expansive his game will become. The Jet game was a unique situation. It was very apparent that with Smith and a rusty Vick that our defense had their offense under control. That certainly played a major role into how the game was called. Don't allow this individual game make assumptions on how the future game plans will develop. Take the win and the positives out of this game. Appreciate that the Bills are in a favorable situation that they haven't been in for more than a decade. The team is still very far from being a finished product. Even with its flaws this team is moving in the right direction. i think im slightly less doom and gloom than my tone might be conveying --- but i think its hard to ignore that the issues were there before the RB injuries, if you are going to point at that for a reason. or that its been pretty consistent if you are going to cite it as just one week. im not arguing that we go out there and have orton throw 45 times and most be aggressive downfield calls - just that we do more of the stuff that helps create room for our playmakers to make plays, and mask some of our weaknesses better. our biggest strength is speed. lets get a little misdirection going and work on the perimeter (where we also have better blocking) for instance. when the jets put up 17 points in the second quarter, including two 70+ yard drives -- and we responded going 3 and out 4 times out of the half (but putting up 6 points because the turnovers were in a good spot)..... ill be the first to say vick didnt scare me much, and that he looked unprepared but its a situation where you hate to let a team hang around like that. Edited October 27, 2014 by NoSaint
GG Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 We can be the first team to clean house after making the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. I guess it will depend on what's happening behind the scenes. We may need to revisit whatever row was between Whaley & Marrone. We can't argue that swapping Orton for EJ helped. Finally inserting Urbik into the line up helped. We don't know how much pressure Marrone was under to make the moves, or if the moves were all his. But if there's a view across the administration that the coaching decisions held the team back, then yes, despite a possible play off season a change could be made.
JohnC Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 i think im slightly less doom and gloom than my tone might be conveying --- but i think its hard to ignore that the issues were there before the RB injuries, if you are going to point at that for a reason. or that its been pretty consistent if you are going to cite it as just one week. when the jets put up 17 points in the second quarter, including two 70+ yard drives -- and we responded going 3 and out 4 times out of the half (but putting up 6 points because the turnovers were in a good spot)..... ill be the first to say vick didnt scare me much, and that he looked unprepared but its a situation where you hate to let a team hang around like that. The core of the offense's problems is the OL. As a unit they are bad, very bad. That limits what you can do. Orton is a very efficient passer. His mobility is statuesque! He has to be proected---it is being done by the cautious nature of the playcallling. If he goes down it would be a crushing blow. After the bye week I wouldn't be surprised if the play calling got more aggressive. The qb is still in being acquainted with his players and with the offense. I understand the complaints with the playcalling but I do understand the way the offense is being handled the way it is so far.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I guess it will depend on what's happening behind the scenes. We may need to revisit whatever row was between Whaley & Marrone. We can't argue that swapping Orton for EJ helped. Finally inserting Urbik into the line up helped. We don't know how much pressure Marrone was under to make the moves, or if the moves were all his. But if there's a view across the administration that the coaching decisions held the team back, then yes, despite a possible play off season a change could be made. Leave it to you to take that idea seriously.
GG Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Leave it to you to take that idea seriously. If you don't think that's what Pegula's team is evaluating right now, then you're deadly mistaken.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) If you don't think that's what Pegula's team is evaluating right now, then you're deadly mistaken. If an evaluator tells Terry to clean house after the Bills make the playoffs then he's an idiot. Edited October 27, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 If an evaluator tells Terry to clean house after the Bills make the playoffs then he's an idiot. That's a pretty big leap. There are disfunctional organizations that succeed in business despite their management. Making the playoffs for the first time in 15 years isn't a "get out of jail free" card.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) That's a pretty big leap. There are disfunctional organizations that succeed in business despite their management. Making the playoffs for the first time in 15 years isn't a "get out of jail free" card. Sure it isn't. Bills fans will totally understand dismantling the team that broke the jinx. Edited October 27, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 You're just ignoring what happened in the game and the last several games. If you want to say that it doesn't matter how you play, or what happens in a game, it's all good if you win, I will accept that. And I understand it. I have taken that stance many times myself. If you think however that this is the best use of our players that will lead this roster this year to play to its potential and go as far as it can go I have to question your stability. Could not agree more with this. After the last couple times the Bills started the season winning only to watch it fall apart i am seeing certain things that remind me of that year. I hope this year is different and the Bills keep finding ways to win. The Jets are bad and played very disengaged for much of that game. Warning signs are there for this O. I do think the Bills can win 10 games despite play calling. I do not think they can win a playoff game UNLESS Orton plays a flawless game.
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 The core of the offense's problems is the OL. As a unit they are bad, very bad. That limits what you can do. Orton is a very efficient passer. His mobility is statuesque! He has to be proected---it is being done by the cautious nature of the playcallling. If he goes down it would be a crushing blow. After the bye week I wouldn't be surprised if the play calling got more aggressive. The qb is still in being acquainted with his players and with the offense. I understand the complaints with the playcalling but I do understand the way the offense is being handled the way it is so far. not impossible, and other teams have seen those midseason adjustments before. i wont rule it out, but my gut says i shouldnt be counting on it either. i guess, what i would ask, is why our OL precludes us from having a WR come on the end around more often (real or just to create motion), or if we really want to pound it in the middle maybe even some inside handoffs to the FB to change the pace and tempo on the runs in the middle? just throwing a few random things out there that might leave SOME doubt in the minds of the lbs If an evaluator tells Terry to clean house after the Bills make the playoffs then he's an idiot. i bet theres middle ground between clean house and make adjustments to the staff. would reviewing whether hackett is the guy at the end of the season qualify as a reasonable question?
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Sure it isn't. Bills fans will totally understand dismantling the team that broke the jinx. Run your team based on fan's wishes and you'll end up sitting next to them.
thewildrabbit Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Orton has the ability to check into another play as do all qbs. If the defense is stacked where the run is gong to go the qb has the option to change the play. So I'm not sure what your point is. Your comment that you hate that Orton is making both Marrone and Hackett look competent is baffling. So you want the qb to make the coaches look poorly and hurt the team? Hackett is calling plays for a team that has major deficiencies on the OL. He is also calling a game for one of the least mobile qbs in the game. Running the ball, even if not effective, is a reasonable thing to do if you want to make sure that your qb is in a better position to survive the inadequacies of the line. Just maybe the best way to use Orton is as he is being used now. He is more of a selective and judicious passer than a prolific passer. His passing numbers are not very guady but the team is winning. Adjustments are made for individual games. In this game the conservative approach worked well enough. I'm more than satisfied with how the coaches and the qb handled this game that resulted in a win. I also understand the restlessness of many fans with the conservative approach to the game plan. However, a win's a win, especially on the road. Orton I didn't say I hated Can't Hackett or Marrone. What I did say is I hate that Orton is making them look competent. Why? Because these coaches suck, and now it looks like we will be stuck with them another year! This team still has major problem with penalties, and discipline. The team has had two off seasons to build the O line, and yet its graded worse then it has been in 14 years. This with a supposed O line guru at head coach. Although Pears is not much of an upgrade, why did it take six weeks to finally get Pears in at LG, and the RG is still one of the very worst in the NFL. This week the Bills beat a 1-6 bad team on the road and, Orton, 6 turnovers along with great defensive play is what won that game. It wasn't the brilliant game plan, the Bills won despite the game plan or play calls. Last week against a 2-5 team It took last second heroics by Orton to beat Minnesota with a TD with one second on the clock. The thing is the first down run game worked a lot of the time against the Jets, and then failed badly on second down over and over because the OC predictably called an up the middle run, run, then pass on third down every series. Where is the imagination, where is the ingenuity? How many times did the team get the ball with great field position mid field only to have 3 downs and out. Ya know what really sucks, is that if these morons for coaches had built a decent O line this year they easily be competing for the division title, and playoffs. On a positive note, I'm just happy to see them not using Sammy as a freaking decoy anymore.
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 not impossible, and other teams have seen those midseason adjustments before. i wont rule it out, but my gut says i shouldnt be counting on it either. i guess, what i would ask, is why our OL precludes us from having a WR come on the end around more often (real or just to create motion), or if we really want to pound it in the middle maybe even some inside handoffs to the FB to change the pace and tempo on the runs in the middle? just throwing a few random things out there that might leave SOME doubt in the minds of the lbs i bet theres middle ground between clean house and make adjustments to the staff. would reviewing whether hackett is the guy at the end of the season qualify as a reasonable question? I don't think end arounds work against team's like the Jets - they're pretty disciplined when it comes to that.
Dorkington Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 If an evaluator tells Terry to clean house after the Bills make the playoffs then he's an idiot. Given our schedule, and the schedule of other teams in the wildcard hunt, it's very unlikely we make the playoffs, back off the playoff talk a bit.
bobobonators Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Yea Ill go on record and say if we go an entire quarter without a first down we are in trouble against KC. KC will dink/dunk us to death and control the clock - that's my greatest fear. We'll see. Mistake free football and stay positive on turnover differential and we have a very good chance to win.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Given our schedule, and the schedule of other teams in the wildcard hunt, it's very unlikely we make the playoffs, back off the playoff talk a bit. Are you saying beware of the Geno revenge game in few weeks?
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 KC will dink/dunk us to death and control the clock - that's my greatest fear. We'll see. Mistake free football and stay positive on turnover differential and we have a very good chance to win. Call me crazy but they don't match up well with us. We should win this game based solely on that.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 KC will dink/dunk us to death and control the clock - that's my greatest fear. We'll see. Mistake free football and stay positive on turnover differential and we have a very good chance to win. Waving the white flag already? That's the spirit.
Jobot Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I feel like we're giving Marrone too much of a free pass on the play calling. He is the head coach and is responsible for the entire team which includes Hacketts play calling. The fact that nothing has changed with the play calling all season, and now it might be at an all time low after the Jets game concerns me about Marrone. I blame much of the offensive line woes on predictable play calling that allows other team's D to just tee-off on the Bills. Regardless, the Bills offense is getting frustrating to the point where it's unbearable to even watch! Run Run Pass Repeat!
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I feel like we're giving Marrone too much of a free pass on the play calling. He is the head coach and is responsible for the entire team which includes Hacketts play calling. The fact that nothing has changed with the play calling all season, and now it might be at an all time low after the Jets game concerns me about Marrone. I blame much of the offensive line woes on predictable play calling that allows other team's D to just tee-off on the Bills. Regardless, the Bills offense is getting frustrating to the point where it's unbearable to even watch! Run Run Pass Repeat! I agree and said as much earlier in the thread. Marrone has more than a little Jauron in him.
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