Fire Hackett

[GunnerBill]

I'm not a Hackpologist, but I'm not sure if some people consider the following:

 

- The previous 3 weeks, the Bills have passed the ball 124 times and Kyle Orton has been sacked 13 times and hit 15 times.

- The Jest were #2 in sacks going into the game.

- Urbik had just taken over at LG.

- The Jest defense has held: Denver to 221 yards passing, NE* to 260 yards, San Diego to 277 yards, Detroit to 270 yards, Chicago to 197 yards. So while I'm sure everyone is saying attack the corners, attack the corners, it's their weakness only 1 team has really done that, Green Bay.

- A DL can be disruptive even when the CB's aren't very good.

- 2 RB's who previously haven't seen as much action and would be required to do a bunch of pass blocking. Which Fjax said during preseason that they(FJ, CJ) had been working for weeks on it.

 

While run, run, pass may not be a very exciting game to watch, it worked.

 

For me, I'm not sure the offense has established an identity and that can be for a number of reasons. The offense was almost surely developed for EJ strengths and not KO. Now, I know some people will say, "oh just scrap it then", but I imagine thats a bit difficult to do when you are game planning for opponents and only have 3 days of 2 hour practices. The OL has been horrible this season.

 

Anyways, its a win, and I don't think firing Hackett mid season and replacing him with Marrone would improve things greatly.

 

This is a very sensible post Wayne. I think some (myself included) get a little over emotional in the immediate aftermath. I still have more fundamental concerns about Hackett's offensive scheme but you make a lot of good points about yesterday's game.

[JohnC]

Seriously? Ever consider that Orton is changing the play at the line into something that works?

 

While I love Kyle Orton, I also hate that he is making Hackett and Marrone look somewhat competent. Because I highly doubt this team beats the better teams they play this year with a crap O line & run game. Both Marrone and Hackett are responsible for the play of the offense other then Orton. So many penalties.

 

Six* turnovers helped the Bills win this game, and the 32 rushes for 67 yards with a 2.1 YPC avg didn't.

 

Orton has the ability to check into another play as do all qbs. If the defense is stacked where the run is gong to go the qb has the option to change the play. So I'm not sure what your point is.

 

Your comment that you hate that Orton is making both Marrone and Hackett look competent is baffling. So you want the qb to make the coaches look poorly and hurt the team?

 

Hackett is calling plays for a team that has major deficiencies on the OL. He is also calling a game for one of the least mobile qbs in the game. Running the ball, even if not effective, is a reasonable thing to do if you want to make sure that your qb is in a better position to survive the inadequacies of the line.

 

Just maybe the best way to use Orton is as he is being used now. He is more of a selective and judicious passer than a prolific passer. His passing numbers are not very guady but the team is winning. Adjustments are made for individual games. In this game the conservative approach worked well enough. I'm more than satisfied with how the coaches and the qb handled this game that resulted in a win. I also understand the restlessness of many fans with the conservative approach to the game plan. However, a win's a win, especially on the road.

 

Orton

Edited October 27, 2014 by JohnC

[Freddie's Dead]

So if I'm getting this right: because we scored off four turnovers and not six, getting us 20 points rather than 26 or 34, and because without turnovers we only managed 23 points...on the road...against a division opponent...to win...where we've never won before...by 20 points, Hackett sucks?

 

My problem with Hackett is that other than the Butch Rolle, he never play-actioned to go for the throat after any of the other 5 turnovers. Every single first down after the other 5 turnovers was an ineffective run up the middle. No bubble screens to Sammy, or screens to anyone of any kind. Only 4 targets for Sammy. If we turtle like that against a real team, we will lose.

 

I'm not a Hackpologist, but I'm not sure if some people consider the following:

 

- The previous 3 weeks, the Bills have passed the ball 124 times and Kyle Orton has been sacked 13 times and hit 15 times.

- The Jest were #2 in sacks going into the game.

- Urbik had just taken over at LG.

- The Jest defense has held: Denver to 221 yards passing, NE* to 260 yards, San Diego to 277 yards, Detroit to 270 yards, Chicago to 197 yards. So while I'm sure everyone is saying attack the corners, attack the corners, it's their weakness only 1 team has really done that, Green Bay.

- A DL can be disruptive even when the CB's aren't very good.

- 2 RB's who previously haven't seen as much action and would be required to do a bunch of pass blocking. Which Fjax said during preseason that they(FJ, CJ) had been working for weeks on it.

 

Agree with everything you've said here. That's why the utter lack of a screen game in the face of the Gang Green pass rush made no sense whatsoever.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Fred Jackson Jockstrap

[Armchair GM]

First, let me say I completely agree w/the OP. Hackett must go for this team to be in contention come December.

 

Bare with me a minute, because it may seem I am arguing for Hack...it!

 

It's football 101...you must run the ball; you must show a willingness to run the ball even if it isn't working; you must wear down the other team by consistantly running the ball...as it showed later in the game when Dixon and Brown were popping off 3-5 YPA.

 

BUT...

 

You MUST know when to put it in the QB's hands and stick a dagger in the throat of the opposing team!!! You absolutlely CAN NOT make the most conservative of all calls immediately following a big play by your defense or ST...

 

1st INT, Gillmore runs it back to the Jets 33, backed up by a penalty to the Jets 48..1st play, HB dive for 1 yard. Posession - 3 & out.

 

2nd INT, Brown picks it off @ the 50. 1st play, HB dive for 3 yds. Posession - 3 & out.

 

3rd INT, Williams runs it back to the 1, bills run 1 play...a pass..TD

 

Jets score...bills answer, it's 21-7

 

Vick scrambles and fumbles @ his own 26...1st play, HB dive for 1 yd. Possession - FG good, 24-7.

 

Jets score, bills go 3 & out again, Jets get FG, 24-17 going into the half.

 

Bills punt on 1st posession of 3rd, penalties, D stuffs them, Jets punt from own End Zone and McKelvin returns a short punt 27 yrds to the Jets 24.

 

1st play, HB dive for 4 yrds. Posession - FG, 27-17.

 

A few punts later, Vick gets strip sacked, Bills recover @ the Jets 10. 1st play, HB dive for 1 yrd. Posession - FG, 30-17.

 

Next Jets posession, INT # 4. Searcy returns it to NYJ 14. 1st play, HB dive for 4 yards. Posession - TD to Chandler, 34-17.

 

Listen guys, that's only 23 points off of 6 turn overs, which ALL occured on the NYJ side of the field. Granted, the long ball is a low percentage play, but so is running up the middle when you have a weak interior OL up against a very strong DL. The total yards gained on the 1st play after the turnovers is 15 yards!! THAT IS AWFUL and IMHO, grounds for immediate termination.

[FireChan]

 

 

My problem with Hackett is that other than the Butch Rolle, he never play-actioned to go for the throat after any of the other 5 turnovers. Every single first down after the other 5 turnovers was an ineffective run up the middle. No bubble screens to Sammy, or screens to anyone of any kind. Only 4 targets for Sammy. If we turtle like that against a real team, we will lose.

 

 

 

Agree with everything you've said here. That's why the utter lack of a screen game in the face of the Gang Green pass rush made no sense whatsoever.

 

We have run maybe 1 successful screen all year. Why do you want a play called that loses 3 almost every time? So you can pat Hackett on the head for trying?

[JohnC]

I'm not a Hackpologist, but I'm not sure if some people consider the following:

 

- The previous 3 weeks, the Bills have passed the ball 124 times and Kyle Orton has been sacked 13 times and hit 15 times.

- The Jest were #2 in sacks going into the game.

- Urbik had just taken over at LG.

- The Jest defense has held: Denver to 221 yards passing, NE* to 260 yards, San Diego to 277 yards, Detroit to 270 yards, Chicago to 197 yards. So while I'm sure everyone is saying attack the corners, attack the corners, it's their weakness only 1 team has really done that, Green Bay.

- A DL can be disruptive even when the CB's aren't very good.

- 2 RB's who previously haven't seen as much action and would be required to do a bunch of pass blocking. Which Fjax said during preseason that they(FJ, CJ) had been working for weeks on it.

 

While run, run, pass may not be a very exciting game to watch, it worked.

 

For me, I'm not sure the offense has established an identity and that can be for a number of reasons. The offense was almost surely developed for EJ strengths and not KO. Now, I know some people will say, "oh just scrap it then", but I imagine thats a bit difficult to do when you are game planning for opponents and only have 3 days of 2 hour practices. The OL has been horrible this season.

 

Anyways, its a win, and I don't think firing Hackett mid season and replacing him with Marrone would improve things greatly.

 

Excellent comments. A well thought out post that has a wider perspective to what is going on in the field.

[BillnutinHouston]

you cant get into a throwing contest with a sketchy offensive line with no RB blitz pickup against a crazy pass rushing blitzing team. The Jets need to get turnover and win on defense or they can't win- so as painful as it was today and frustrating for this week it was the right plan. 48 points and a win on the road verus a top 5 defense is hard to get fired over. I with you on the stick it in the line week after week but for this week no turnovers = win

This is correct. Why risk getting Orton killed just to win prettier? Just win baby. I'm shocked at the complaining as we sit at 5-3.

[Freddie's Dead]

First, let me say I completely agree w/the OP. Hackett must go for this team to be in contention come December.

 

Bare with me a minute, because it may seem I am arguing for Hack...it!

 

It's football 101...you must run the ball; you must show a willingness to run the ball even if it isn't working; you must wear down the other team by consistantly running the ball...as it showed later in the game when Dixon and Brown were popping off 3-5 YPA.

 

BUT...

 

You MUST know when to put it in the QB's hands and stick a dagger in the throat of the opposing team!!! You absolutlely CAN NOT make the most conservative of all calls immediately following a big play by your defense or ST...

 

1st INT, Gillmore runs it back to the Jets 33, backed up by a penalty to the Jets 48..1st play, HB dive for 1 yard. Posession - 3 & out.

 

2nd INT, Brown picks it off @ the 50. 1st play, HB dive for 3 yds. Posession - 3 & out.

 

3rd INT, Williams runs it back to the 1, bills run 1 play...a pass..TD

 

Jets score...bills answer, it's 21-7

 

Vick scrambles and fumbles @ his own 26...1st play, HB dive for 1 yd. Possession - FG good, 24-7.

 

Jets score, bills go 3 & out again, Jets get FG, 24-17 going into the half.

 

Bills punt on 1st posession of 3rd, penalties, D stuffs them, Jets punt from own End Zone and McKelvin returns a short punt 27 yrds to the Jets 24.

 

1st play, HB dive for 4 yrds. Posession - FG, 27-17.

 

A few punts later, Vick gets strip sacked, Bills recover @ the Jets 10. 1st play, HB dive for 1 yrd. Posession - FG, 30-17.

 

Next Jets posession, INT # 4. Searcy returns it to NYJ 14. 1st play, HB dive for 4 yards. Posession - TD to Chandler, 34-17.

 

Listen guys, that's only 23 points off of 6 turn overs, which ALL occured on the NYJ side of the field. Granted, the long ball is a low percentage play, but so is running up the middle when you have a weak interior OL up against a very strong DL. The total yards gained on the 1st play after the turnovers is 15 yards!! THAT IS AWFUL and IMHO, grounds for immediate termination.

 

Great post! I wouldn't call the Jets 10 and 14 yard lines a "long ball" ;-)

 

We have run maybe 1 successful screen all year. Why do you want a play called that loses 3 almost every time? So you can pat Hackett on the head for trying?

 

We've had more than successful screens than that, but I will give you that without Fred, the screen is less effective. BTW, did you pat Hackett on the head for trying to run up the middle?

[The Big Cat]

Do you believe hackett maximizes our offensive potential consistently?

 

If my boss called me into his office and told me he plans to bump my salary to $999,999, I wouldn't B word because it wasn't a million.

 

The Bills should have been 3-1 in the first quarter, but Manuel cost them the Houston game. Would you like to argue that "playcalling" cost us that game? I don't think any level-headed person would.

 

They switched to Orton and went 3-1 in the second quarter. Was it Hackett's "playcalling" that surrendered 37 points AT HOME in that one loss?

 

No. It wasn't.

 

So, until someone can point to a Bills loss this year and say "we lost because of offensive playcalling" these calls for "immediate termination" are !@#$ing ridiculous.

 

Yea Ill go on record and say if we go an entire quarter without a first down we are in trouble against KC.

 

Wow. Bold.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Excellent comments. A well thought out post that has a wider perspective to what is going on in the field.

 

But we could run and at least have some creativity in the running game even.

[FireChan]

 

 

Great post! I wouldn't call the Jets 10 and 14 yard lines a "long ball" ;-)

 

 

 

We've had more than successful screens than that, but I will give you that without Fred, the screen is less effective. BTW, did you pat Hackett on the head for trying to run up the middle?

 

We've had maybe two screens that have been effective. And I'm not exaggerating.

 

Not necessarily, but a 2-3 yard gain is better than a sniffed out screen.

[Peace Frog]

Without question, it would be nice if we had the staff who had the balls to stand on the chest and go for the jugular of a team.

 

Hackett is the Spiller of coaching. Some great plays/calls here and there but for the majority it's a complete head scratcher.

This times 1000!

[CountDorkula]

If my boss called me into his office and told me he plans to bump my salary to $999,999, I wouldn't B word because it wasn't a million.

 

The Bills should have been 3-1 in the first quarter, but Manuel cost them the Houston game. Would you like to argue that "playcalling" cost us that game? I don't think any level-headed person would.

 

They switched to Orton and went 3-1 in the second quarter. Was it Hackett's "playcalling" that surrendered 37 points AT HOME in that one loss?

 

No. It wasn't.

 

So, until someone can point to a Bills loss this year and say "we lost because of offensive playcalling" these calls for "immediate termination" are !@#$ing ridiculous.

 

 

 

Wow. Bold.

 

Don't take me as one of these people wanting Hackett fired. I questioned some play calls, but overall, im happy. Just going on record to what the post says if go an entire quarter without a first down, it is going to be more trouble against KC then it was against the NYJ.

[GG]

To me it's not so much the playcalls, but personnel alignments. Boobie Dixon is not a feature back, and having him solo in the backfield is the equivalent of half conceding the play. Hackett owes Schwartzie a lot of dinners and at least one game paycheck.

[C.Biscuit97]

We aren't firing him but he shouldn't have the job in the first place. It's like he does not understand how to scout teams. The Jets have a great run defense and a bad secondary. We lost both of our top 2 rbs and have the best receiving core in the NFL. Let's run the ball!

 

We won and scored a lot of points but it's ok to have high expectations. Going 7 series in a row without a first down is terrible. The Jets are a joke right now. You can't count on 6 turnovers and an average drive start on the other team's 50 every game.

 

This team is absolutely loaded. Our major weakness is offensive coaching.

[Wayne Cubed]

But we could run and at least have some creativity in the running game even.

 

With the OL the way it is and 2 RB's who haven't seen extended play time? I don't know how creative a running play can get if you can't run basic run plays. I remember the Bills running a couple end arounds this year to Goodwin/Woods and none of them have amounted to much.

[NoSaint]

 

 

With the OL the way it is and 2 RB's who haven't seen extended play time? I don't know how creative a running play can get if you can't run basic run plays. I remember the Bills running a couple end arounds this year to Goodwin/Woods and none of them have amounted to much.

 

is it possible that part of the problem is we are not giving our OL any help by masking what we are going to do? does that end around, even if it only goes for a few yards help keep a defense honest? were we creative before the rb injuries?

[C.Biscuit97]

With the OL the way it is and 2 RB's who haven't seen extended play time? I don't know how creative a running play can get if you can't run basic run plays. I remember the Bills running a couple end arounds this year to Goodwin/Woods and none of them have amounted to much.

 

End arounds keep the defense honest. Also, I was told Brown was single handedly bringing the running game back.

 

Another crazy thought. Don't run up the middle every 1st down. try play action or go deep. It will loosen the defense up.

[NoSaint]

 

 

If my boss called me into his office and told me he plans to bump my salary to $999,999, I wouldn't B word because it wasn't a million.

 

The Bills should have been 3-1 in the first quarter, but Manuel cost them the Houston game. Would you like to argue that "playcalling" cost us that game? I don't think any level-headed person would.

 

They switched to Orton and went 3-1 in the second quarter. Was it Hackett's "playcalling" that surrendered 37 points AT HOME in that one loss?

 

No. It wasn't.

 

So, until someone can point to a Bills loss this year and say "we lost because of offensive playcalling" these calls for "immediate termination" are !@#$ing ridiculous.

 

so it seems you are going with him not maximizing our potential, but you wont be upset until we are actually losing because of it?

 

though it does sound like you think hes at that 99.9999% efficiency i suppose. i just think we regularly leave more than $1 on the field.

[Alaska Darin]

My feeling on all of this is that Dougie "Jauron" Marrone is the biggest part of this issue. The only real problem I have with the offense yesterday is formations. You simply cannot run bunch formations where all 11 of your guys are within 10 yards of the football against a team like the JETS. It exposes you to exotic blitzes, which you've shown over and over again is your greatest weakness. It's enhanced by the fact that the JETS probably have the most physical front four in the NFL and Sheldon Richardson and Wilkerson wrecked us much of the time.

 

Jauron decided the JETS weren't going to beat his team with their offense, so he made sure it was an ultraconservative offensive attack. He was right for a change.