MMQB: Kevin Kolb Battles the Storms, Outside and In

[billykaykay]

Very sad.

 

I have had a few concussions in my day and have a difficult time remembering names sometimes and used to have constant headaches until someone figured out what was causing them. Concussions suck

I had a concussion when I was hit in the head as a kid playing baseball. I have had no problems or after effects.

Where exactly am I?

 

McNabb was the top QB prospect in the 1999 draft.

 

Vick's tenure in Philly was a disaster under Reid. 20-20 record as a starter. Got physically destroyed---- injured every year and missed games.

 

McNabb was long gone when Foles was drafted. Foles went 1-5 as a starter under Reid. He's gone 13-3 since Reid left.

 

Smith was in the NFCC game after one year with Harbaugh. He is 14-8 in 2 years with Reid (losing 9 of their last 14 games).

 

Reid with McNabb: 105-56. Reid without McNabb: 27-34.

Yup. Belicheck with Brady - a "genius". BB without Brady - under 500.

[JohnC]

McNabb was the top QB prospect in the 1999 draft.

 

Vick's tenure in Philly was a disaster under Reid. 20-20 record as a starter. Got physically destroyed---- injured every year and missed games.

 

McNabb was long gone when Foles was drafted. Foles went 1-5 as a starter under Reid. He's gone 13-3 since Reid left.

 

Smith was in the NFCC game after one year with Harbaugh. He is 14-8 in 2 years with Reid (losing 9 of their last 14 games).

 

Reid with McNabb: 105-56. Reid without McNabb: 27-34.

 

Regardless what Vick's record was in Philly he learned how to play the position much better than he did with the Falcons, where he put little effort in his job. As you indicated Foles went 1-5 as a starter with Reid as a young qb but who drafted him? He did. As he gained experience and playing time he got better. Who drafted McNabb? He did. Alex Smith was very instrumental in KC's quick turnaround. Getting AS was one of his first acts as a HC. Are you going to deny that? My central point with Reid and the qb issue is that he has a history of adding qbs to his roster especially compared to franchises that are much more passive. Are you going to disagree with that description?

[Sweet Lou]

Concussions are no laughing matter. I've had a few myself and they doorknob earlobe your brain off. Anyone who jokes about such a thing, even rubber matting, should have their mad about afterward.

 

Truer words were never spoken Rocky. I got my first and last concussion to this date, back in September of 1991. I am now 56.

While off road dirt bike racing in Cattaraugus. (I think I spelled that correctly) I went over the handlebars after landing "too heavy" on the front wheel. I had a top of the line Bell Helmet; Unfortunately for me, I still suffered a head injury and a couple of broken bones. In addition to "cart wheeling" over the bars, the bike caught up to and hit me from behind, just for good measure. I was so pissed that I got hurt and I knew I was busted up, that out of pure disgust, I un-did my helmet and threw it with my good arm as far as I could.

 

I was air-lifted to ECMC and was still concsious and in my opinion very alert. I rememer the medical staff at ECMC scolding the EMT's from the "He-lo" Because they wanted my helmet! And they assumed the EMT's forgot it! I remember interupting and informing all that listened, that I had thrown my helmet into the weeds. They sent someone to retrieve my helmet and took me into surgery.

 

The symptoms from my concussion were on full display in the recovery room, yet I remember none of it. My recovery was actually recorded. The medical staff continually asked me the same three questions for over three hours. And the answers to the same three questions were written on a large dry erase board directly in front of me. My name? Where are you? and who was the President? One of my unfortunate answers at the time was: It's a God dam F'ing miracle we just didn't get trampled by all those F'ing caribou.

 

Ater three hours of fun for them, they asked me; Do you know who Sweet Lou is ? That's when I snapped out of it. Afterwards, I continued to halucinate but it got less and less every day as time went on. The one phrase that still haunts me till this day was from one of the nurses who sat with me round the clock for the first 24 hours. I remember watching the Bills game on television with her when she suddenly got my attention and whispered "Concussions ruin people" "Try to remember who you used to be"

 

After I went home I was in a case study where I was monitored and recorded while I slept. They would wake me up during REM sleep and they would question everything I was doing and saying while I slept. At one point it was getting too weird and I just wanted to get back to normal so I told them I had enough. In the end the concussion only cost me my marriage, not my job or my sanity. Fortunately for me, I don't get headaches and never did and I'm thankful for that, but I do forget some of the oddest things, while remembering other things that are so trivial that it absolutely rocks people's minds.

 

I have two older children who have their own children that I have never seen. I truly don't know how many grandchildren I have.

But I do know that I moved on and I now have a 12 year old son who is the absolute apple of my eye, so I regret nothing. In closing I would wish a concussion on no one and I will say to those who suffer from them; "Try to remember who you used to be"

 

'Lou'

[Orton's Arm]

That is 100% wrong. Many many many goals are scored off of headers. Concussions aren't caused by heading the ball. They are caused by heading the ball incorrectly or as another poster said hitting heads with another player. Much like the risk of concussions/injuries is lessened when players tackle correctly a head butt done correctly will not cause a concussion. I played soccer for many years and never got a diagnosed concussion. I don't remember any instance of heading the ball and having any symptoms.

 

 

 

MMJ

 

 

It was Kolb that was drafted in the second while McNabb was still around.

 

> That is 100% wrong. . . . Concussions aren't caused by heading the ball.

 

From Scientific American:

 

****************

The study imaged the brains of 37 amateur soccer players, 21 to 44 years old, and found that players who reported “heading the ball” more frequently had microstructural changes in the white matter of their brains similar to those observed in patients with traumatic brain injury. These players also performed poorly on cognitive tests, compared with players who reported heading the ball less. The study, published online in June in Radiology, found evidence of a threshold—1,800 headings—above which the effects on memory begin to manifest.

***************

 

A nearly identical conclusion was reported by WebMD and National Geographic.

 

GunnerBill stated that his soccer-related concussions were the result of a collision of heads, when he and another player were challenging for the opportunity to headbutt the ball. If you make a rule against touching the ball with your head, you'd eliminate the reason for those challenges. You'd be eliminating the cause of the brain damage in the above-described articles, and the reason for concussions like the ones GunnerBill experienced.

 

Soccer is a fun game to play. (But not all that fun to watch.) I played organized soccer for a couple years myself, back when I was in middle school. Later, I would play non-organized soccer with my friends, or occasionally would participate in adult league soccer. But I never headbutted the ball, and that didn't seem to matter. Soccer was a good opportunity to run around, to get exercise, and to compete. The absence of headbutting didn't change any of that.

[LeGOATski]

Concussions are no laughing matter. I've had a few myself and they doorknob earlobe your brain off. Anyone who jokes about such a thing, even rubber matting, should have their mad about afterward.

 

This was great.

 

I'm surprised it didn't get more laughs.

[BADOLBILZ]

Show me any team that's ever drafted a few qbs a year

 

This kind of statement reminds me of the "we absolutely can't keep both Travis Henry and Willis McGahee because you can't have 2 starting quality RB's, there's just not enough carries!" narrative.

 

Wills' never ran that hard again after TH got dealt and 2 years later most of the successful teams in the league were going to two back systems.

 

I'm not saying everyone is going to start drafting 3 QB's every year but the idea that you can't be drafting even a couple every year is not nearly as ridiculous as the demise of the 1 back system would have seemed a 15 years ago.

 

Successfully doing what nobody else is doing is a great way to become a champion, in fact.

[NoSaint]

 

 

This kind of statement reminds me of the "we absolutely can't keep both Travis Henry and Willis McGahee because you can't have 2 starting quality RB's, there's just not enough carries!" narrative.

 

Wills' never ran that hard again after TH got dealt and 2 years later most of the successful teams in the league were going to two back systems.

 

I'm not saying everyone is going to start drafting 3 QB's every year but the idea that you can't be drafting even a couple every year is not nearly as ridiculous as the demise of the 1 back system would have seemed a 15 years ago.

 

Successfully doing what nobody else is doing is a great way to become a champion, in fact.

 

I'd say there are two fundamental flaws here-

 

1) it's hard to call it an old adage if it's something no one is doing. That's wgat I was directly addressing.

 

2) it's a helluva commitment to draft multiple guys every year when you might only carry 2 any given year. There are plenty of basic nuts and bolts reasons to go against it unlike the vague charges of running backs requiring 20+ carries to be effective

[JohnC]

This kind of statement reminds me of the "we absolutely can't keep both Travis Henry and Willis McGahee because you can't have 2 starting quality RB's, there's just not enough carries!" narrative.

 

Wills' never ran that hard again after TH got dealt and 2 years later most of the successful teams in the league were going to two back systems.

 

I'm not saying everyone is going to start drafting 3 QB's every year but the idea that you can't be drafting even a couple every year is not nearly as ridiculous as the demise of the 1 back s]ystem would have seemed a 15 years ago.

 

Successfully doing what nobody else is doing is a great way to become a champion, in fact.

 

Repeatedly drafting multiple qbs in itself could turn out to be self-defeating in that it is difficult to give practice time and playing time to such a large number of qbs. In addition, by investing so many draft picks on so many qb prospects you end up in not addressing other positional needs, thus weakining the roster.

 

Successfully doing what nobody else is doing is a great way to become a champion, in fact.

 

The Raiders have a recent inglorious history of not doing what most other teams do. How has that turned out? Sometimes trying to outthink everyone else you end up outthinking yourself. Tom Donahoe is a good example of someone who tried to prove to everyone else that he was smarter than everyone else in the business. Instead of stressing the fundamentals of good management he oftentimes outmaneuvered himself.

 

The bottom line is the issue of evaluating players in general is the primary weakness with the Bills that go beyond the qb position. The Bills have had a history of not only poorly evaluating its qb selections but also its other selections. The flaws in EJ's games are the same flaws that most analysts recognized prior to the draft. The problem with selecting EJ was not in drafting him but over-drafting someone who was from the start a developmental prospect. If he would have been selected in the second or third round it would have made more sense.

Edited October 25, 2014 by JohnC

[Rocky Landing]

This was great.

 

I'm surprised it didn't get more laughs.

I'm here all week!

 

Truer words were never spoken Rocky. I got my first and last concussion to this date, back in September of 1991. I am now 56.

While off road dirt bike racing in Cattaraugus. (I think I spelled that correctly) I went over the handlebars after landing "too heavy" on the front wheel. I had a top of the line Bell Helmet; Unfortunately for me, I still suffered a head injury and a couple of broken bones. In addition to "cart wheeling" over the bars, the bike caught up to and hit me from behind, just for good measure. I was so pissed that I got hurt and I knew I was busted up, that out of pure disgust, I un-did my helmet and threw it with my good arm as far as I could.

 

I was air-lifted to ECMC and was still concsious and in my opinion very alert. I rememer the medical staff at ECMC scolding the EMT's from the "He-lo" Because they wanted my helmet! And they assumed the EMT's forgot it! I remember interupting and informing all that listened, that I had thrown my helmet into the weeds. They sent someone to retrieve my helmet and took me into surgery.

 

The symptoms from my concussion were on full display in the recovery room, yet I remember none of it. My recovery was actually recorded. The medical staff continually asked me the same three questions for over three hours. And the answers to the same three questions were written on a large dry erase board directly in front of me. My name? Where are you? and who was the President? One of my unfortunate answers at the time was: It's a God dam F'ing miracle we just didn't get trampled by all those F'ing caribou.

 

Ater three hours of fun for them, they asked me; Do you know who Sweet Lou is ? That's when I snapped out of it. Afterwards, I continued to halucinate but it got less and less every day as time went on. The one phrase that still haunts me till this day was from one of the nurses who sat with me round the clock for the first 24 hours. I remember watching the Bills game on television with her when she suddenly got my attention and whispered "Concussions ruin people" "Try to remember who you used to be"

 

After I went home I was in a case study where I was monitored and recorded while I slept. They would wake me up during REM sleep and they would question everything I was doing and saying while I slept. At one point it was getting too weird and I just wanted to get back to normal so I told them I had enough. In the end the concussion only cost me my marriage, not my job or my sanity. Fortunately for me, I don't get headaches and never did and I'm thankful for that, but I do forget some of the oddest things, while remembering other things that are so trivial that it absolutely rocks people's minds.

 

I have two older children who have their own children that I have never seen. I truly don't know how many grandchildren I have.

But I do know that I moved on and I now have a 12 year old son who is the absolute apple of my eye, so I regret nothing. In closing I would wish a concussion on no one and I will say to those who suffer from them; "Try to remember who you used to be"

 

'Lou'

That's a heavy story. Thanks for sharing it, my friend.

[Mr. WEO]

Regardless what Vick's record was in Philly he learned how to play the position much better than he did with the Falcons, where he put little effort in his job. As you indicated Foles went 1-5 as a starter with Reid as a young qb but who drafted him? He did. As he gained experience and playing time he got better. Who drafted McNabb? He did. Alex Smith was very instrumental in KC's quick turnaround. Getting AS was one of his first acts as a HC. Are you going to deny that? My central point with Reid and the qb issue is that he has a history of adding qbs to his roster especially compared to franchises that are much more passive. Are you going to disagree with that description?

 

Drafting a top QB prospect (McNabb) when you need a QB and he's right there at your pick doesn't take much genius.

 

Vick was not effective under Reid and that Reid offense served only to nearly cripple Vick.

 

Foles was drafted by Reid, yes. But under Reid's direct tutelage, Foles was awful. He was immediately awesome under Chip Kelly.

 

Smith was blooming i his last year in SF under Harbaugh. Then Harbaugh dumped Smith. Reid needed a QB and Smith fell into his lap. After a 9-0 start in 2013, Reid has coached Smith and the team to a crappy record--complete with a humiliating playoff loss last year.

[Augie]

Well, I'm responding to many of the comments above at once. I have a son who suffered a brain injury in a dirt bike accident as a kid. He broke his back (L5) at the same time. The broken back was slow to be diagnosed, and the brain injury was unknown for years. He's now in his 20's and it's clear he will never have the life he deserved. It's serious stuff. Brain scans show damage you never would have guessed. His life is greatly diminished.

 

A few years later, his younger brother was a QB and the area stud as a high school senior in FL (POY, All Area, honorable mention all state, etc.). He suffered a stinger mid-season and had no feeling in his left hand causing them to re-vamp the offense. He missed a total of 2 plays after the stinger. He lied about how many times it recurred. We had a friend/neurologist making house calls to see him to determine if he could play in each game. My son said what he had to say to keep playing. He bluffed on some tests and told some fibs. He kept playing. If this had been a concussion, this might have ruined his life. Players lie to keep going. As it is, he is still seeking medical attention 4 years later for the stinger. Thank God he knew enough to blow off the All Star game and the small college offers he had. He'd already torn an ACL/MCL, broken an arm and took regular ice baths. He'll do fine in the business world with those lingering injuries. Had it been a concussion he lied about, he might need supervision crossing the street. Kids lie, trainers and doctors are often either ill equipped or, sadly, trying to get the kid back on the field. (In our case the team trainer was more cautious than the neurologist.)

 

Also, the younger son was all area in soccer. While the constant heading of the ball is of very real concern, the severe concussions occur on head to head contact fighting for the headers. As my wife would say every few minutes as my son headed a ball from 40 yards, "there goes another 10 points off his SAT's".

 

People, please beware with your children.

[BADOLBILZ]

I'd say there are two fundamental flaws here-

 

1) it's hard to call it an old adage if it's something no one is doing. That's wgat I was directly addressing.

 

2) it's a helluva commitment to draft multiple guys every year when you might only carry 2 any given year. There are plenty of basic nuts and bolts reasons to go against it unlike the vague charges of running backs requiring 20+ carries to be effective

 

Running backs requiring 20+ carries was most certainly considered a nuts and bolts reason for the 1 back system and it had the support of #'s. They were influenced greatly by the fact that fatigue weakens a run defense but it was not really that vague.

 

The game just changed and the Bills didn't see it coming.

 

Passing is an even greater emphasis now. QB has never been more important. As such the highest value in the game on either side of the ball is now passers and pass rushers.

 

The reason to not use a couple of your 7 picks on a QB each year are considerably more vague and certainly outdated. If you can't stock your roster by risking a couple picks every year on by far the most important position on the field then you aren't good personnel evaluators. The main reason it isn't done is that well run organizations tend to get their QB and have him for a long time and poorly run ones are filled with decision makers who are constantly trying to eek out that extra win or two NOW to save their necks at the expense of what's right for the organization long term.

[BADOLBILZ]

Repeatedly drafting multiple qbs in itself could turn out to be self-defeating in that it is difficult to give practice time and playing time to such a large number of qbs. In addition, by investing so many draft picks on so many qb prospects you end up in not addressing other positional needs, thus weakining the roster.

 

 

 

The Raiders have a recent inglorious history of not doing what most other teams do. How has that turned out? Sometimes trying to outthink everyone else you end up outthinking yourself. Tom Donahoe is a good example of someone who tried to prove to everyone else that he was smarter than everyone else in the business. Instead of stressing the fundamentals of good management he oftentimes outmaneuvered himself.

 

The bottom line is the issue of evaluating players in general is the primary weakness with the Bills that go beyond the qb position. The Bills have had a history of not only poorly evaluating its qb selections but also its other selections. The flaws in EJ's games are the same flaws that most analysts recognized prior to the draft. The problem with selecting EJ was not in drafting him but over-drafting someone who was from the start a developmental prospect. If he would have been selected in the second or third round it would have made more sense.

 

Not using picks on middling talents or reaching to fill needs creates opportunities in free agency and UDFA that might otherwise be missed or passed upon. There are plenty of ways to put talent on a roster. The draft, especially the early part should be about getting those players at key positions that you can't get for a reasonable price in free agency. Quarterback is the most important, most expensive and most obvious example. And no, having one or two starting quality QB's hit the FA market is not evidence that they are available. If you have to compete against 12 other desperate teams to get a player in FA that is not a strategy.

 

The Raiders have had no direction. What I am talking about is being committed to stocking the most important position with as much potential as possible. That makes sense. Signing 35 year old free agents to big contracts when you are rebuilding like the Raiders makes no sense on any level.

[Orton's Arm]

Running backs requiring 20+ carries was most certainly considered a nuts and bolts reason for the 1 back system and it had the support of #'s. They were influenced greatly by the fact that fatigue weakens a run defense but it was not really that vague.

 

The game just changed and the Bills didn't see it coming.

 

Passing is an even greater emphasis now. QB has never been more important. As such the highest value in the game on either side of the ball is now passers and pass rushers.

 

The reason to not use a couple of your 7 picks on a QB each year are considerably more vague and certainly outdated. If you can't stock your roster by risking a couple picks every year on by far the most important position on the field then you aren't good personnel evaluators. The main reason it isn't done is that well run organizations tend to get their QB and have him for a long time and poorly run ones are filled with decision makers who are constantly trying to eek out that extra win or two NOW to save their necks at the expense of what's right for the organization long term.

 

> QB has never been more important. As such the highest value in the game on either side of the ball is now passers and pass rushers.

 

I agree with the above, with one exception. On defense, a good pass rush is probably a necessary condition for stopping a guy like Tom Brady. But it may not be a sufficient condition. If your pass rush is working well, Brady will respond by emphasizing short passing routes intended to get rid of the ball quickly. Too quickly for your pass rushers to have much of a chance of sacking him. Your secondary will be much better at defending against that particular kind of attack than your pass rush. On the other hand, if you don't have a good pass rush, he'll have all day to throw. That will give him a lot more options; and that's never a good thing!

 

> The reason to not use a couple of your 7 picks on a QB each year are considerably more vague and certainly outdated.

 

If the above strategy is followed, your roster will typically have the following look:

 

QB A: a rookie

QB B: a second year player

QB C: a third year player (to be jettisoned at the end of the season)

 

The system will function like a conveyor belt, moving QBs off the roster at the end of three years. But let's say a particular QB is good enough to step off the conveyor belt, and remain on the roster beyond that three year period. His success will shorten the conveyor belt for the other QBs. They'll only have two years on the team before being discarded.

 

The plan you've described would use up a considerable number of draft picks. If its ultimate result is a franchise QB, the sacrifice of those picks will have been justified many times over.

 

The biggest obstacle I see to your plan working as intended is NFL teams' ability to evaluate the QBs on their own rosters. The Chargers gave up on Brees, which is why they drafted Rivers. The Packers were feeling nervous about Aaron Rodgers, which is why they used a second round pick on Craig Nall. The conveyor belt approach only works if the really good QBs can be identified and taken off the belt before it deposits them in the garbage pit. If you have a way that problem can be overcome--or at least mitigated--it would significantly increase the viability of the strategy you've proposed.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

This organization certainly isn't known for its astuteness in evaluating players, both from the draft and in the pro ranks. In Nix's last year he had the scouting department place a lot of their emphasis on drafting a qb. After much effort they selected EJ in the first round, a player with physical tools and high character. Almost all the reports I read about him before the draft consistently stated that he was a developmental type prospect. Even as a person who defended the selection his flaws (accuracy and feel for the game) are so blatantly evident that I am leaning toward the column that indicates that he will never be a quality starter.

 

The mistake that this organization frequently makes is that very often reach when they have a disperate need. The problem is that having a need doesn't alter the limitations of the particular player you acquired to fill the need.

 

The Levy/Brandon/Nix eras wasted critical time that could have been used to smartly rebuild a decimated franchise. Instead a lot of time and effort is being used to undo what has already been done. It's exasperating.

 

I'm aware that Whaley has an association with the Nix regime. Despite that taint I have more confidence in him and the staff that he has chosen than I have had in a very long time.

They were blinded by EJ's MVP in the Senior Bowl. It's incredible how often a fluky performance can elevate a player and where it eventually leads. But, of course, we've other notable busts who never even had their "one game" such as Los(t)man, etc.etc.etc.

[JohnC]

Not using picks on middling talents or reaching to fill needs creates opportunities in free agency and UDFA that might otherwise be missed or passed upon. There are plenty of ways to put talent on a roster. The draft, especially the early part should be about getting those players at key positions that you can't get for a reasonable price in free agency. Quarterback is the most important, most expensive and most obvious example. And no, having one or two starting quality QB's hit the FA market is not evidence that they are available. If you have to compete against 12 other desperate teams to get a player in FA that is not a strategy.

 

The Raiders have had no direction. What I am talking about is being committed to stocking the most important position with as much potential as possible. That makes sense. Signing 35 year old free agents to big contracts when you are rebuilding like the Raiders makes no sense on any level.

 

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. Just because you have a need you shouldn't reach for that need in the draft or for that matter in free agency. The draft strategy that in the end works out best is drafting the best players. When you do that over a period of time you build a stronger roster. Of course a team's need is a consideration but the major criterion should be talent level regardless of position unless there is a surplus at that particular position.

 

I would take a similar approach in free agency. Don't overreach and overpay to fill a positional need. If you have to go with a lesser talent at a more reasonable price that is much smarter approach than excessively paying for a need. All teams have positions that are not strongly staffed. There is nothing unusual about that. It is better to manage your cap smartly than to squander cap space on players not worthy of the contract.

 

In EJ's draft year the qb class was mediocre. There was no first round value that year. As I stated in the prior post the problem with EJ's selection was not that he was selected but when he was drafted. There were other teams that had qb needs that didn't use high picks on a qb because the market was paltry. Arizona and even Houston fall in that category.