Is it physical or mental with the guards?

[BackInDaDay]

i think everyone would agree levitre was our best guard for a while. Listed @ 6'2", 302 ... thats just about perfect. Big enough to take on defenders, small enough to get low leverage, and quick enough to get out of the blocks and move around in space. Urbik is 6'5" 324, and Pears @ 6'8" 316

bingo..

which is why the talk about moving the alabama rookie inside is probably just that.. talk

[thewildrabbit]

Seriously, what does everyone expect from a 5th round draft pick, and a not very good RT moved inside to RG? When was the last time a 5th rounder became a starter, and made an impact...uh huh, thought so.

 

Erik Pears was a Buddy Nix waiver wire pick up after his failure with FA RT Cornell Green, and Urbik was also plucked off the wiver wire around that same time. Both Pears & Urbik were always a stop gap, band-aid at best players who both worked sorta decently in that quick strike Gailey offense. Now that those players are being tasked with doing some actual real time NFL pass / run blocking things aren't looking so good.

 

Gailey at least had the intelligence to see he needed to run a quick strike offense to offset the liability of his O line players.

 

I still don't get why its going to take 3 off seasons to replace an average OG. Like I said, this team needs an influx of talent and coaching....and perhaps some serious oversight above the GM. Next year man, next year!

[Mr. WEO]

90% is mental. The other half is physical.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Honestly, how can such enormous men be THAT bad at run blocking and pass protecting? Even just getting in front of defenders to impede their progress would seemingly help in pass protection.

 

In the run game, it seems like huge guys pushing the DL should be able to open holes, but they don't.

 

Is it a physical thing or are they blocking the wrong guys (or nobody)?

 

If it's physical you really can't fix it. If it's mental THEN we could blame the coaches.

 

I think it's mental causing physical problems. Physically these are all fantastic athletes on both sides of the ball. Who wins, is often who reacts most quickly and is most prepared. I think mentally our OL is uncertain of their assignments and needing to think too much. This has them reacting to the D instead of being set. "Don't Think - You'll only Hurt the Team" Bull Durham.

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

Erik Pears was a Buddy Nix waiver wire pick up after his failure with FA RT Cornell Green, and Urbik was also plucked off the wiver wire around that same time. Both Pears & Urbik were always a stop gap, band-aid at best players who both worked sorta decently in that quick strike Gailey offense. Now that those players are being tasked with doing some actual real time NFL pass / run blocking things aren't looking so good.

 

I don't understand your explanation that it's about Pears and Urbik as waiver wire pickups, being asked to do real time NFL pass/run blocking for the first time. Pears was an adequate RT. Urbik was an adequate guard. One is no longer playing the position at which he was adequate, and the other hasn't even been playing.

[hondo in seattle]

I think the problems are both physical and mental.

 

Unfortunately, the physical part can't be fixed till the offseason. Hopefully Whaley signs some OL FAs and/or finds some studs in the draft.

 

The mental part worries me. Our HC is an ex NFL lineman. Yet he, Hackett and Pat Morris together can't eliminate the mental mistakes?

[thewildrabbit]

I don't understand your explanation that it's about Pears and Urbik as waiver wire pickups, being asked to do real time NFL pass/run blocking for the first time. Pears was an adequate RT. Urbik was an adequate guard. One is no longer playing the position at which he was adequate, and the other hasn't even been playing.

Allow me to elaborate Things weren't looking so good at the end of last year, as those two both played in 2013 under Marrone. Both players were cast offs from other teams for a reason, and the Bills didn't pick them up and they suddenly became good players. The entire time both players have been with Buffalo they were nothing more then band-aids for those positions. They might have been adequate at times in Chan Gailey's short, quick passing offense, as they were able to hold a block for 2.5 to 3 seconds.

 

Even in the run game Spiller excelled in under Gailey didn't call for big time drive blocking, as it was mostly the RB breaking the first tackle and off to the races because the O line was so spread out in that 4-5 WR shotgun spread offense. Plus, the opposing defense was usually expecting the pass. In 2012 Defenses figured out if they stacked the box, and jammed the WR's (Stevie) at the line they could shut down Gailey's one dimensional offensive deficiencies.

 

There is a solid reason that Gailey always passed on third and short, and why the Bills haven't been successful in getting first downs by running for years. The same can be said about the red zone offense, and the team having great trouble punching into the end zone with the run game. A very weak run blocking offensive line.

 

Last year under Marrone the Bills were #2 in rushing, and #1 in rushing attempts, and yet couldn't get a first down rushing when needed. They were also one of the worst teams in time of possession, and 3 down and out percentage. There is a real reason the team tried to address the RT position in the 2014 NFL draft 2x with both T Cyrus Kouandjio in the 2nd and T Sheantrel Henderson in the 7th, and the OG position with Cryil Richardson in the 5th

 

Every time the Bills played a good team like the New England Patriots the last 4 years those two would always grade in the red. What the F**K good is a player if he can't elevate his game for the teams biggest division rival? There is a solid reason the team has been 6-10 for so long, and its not always been because of the defense as last year under Pettine showed.

 

Don't get me wrong here as even Andy Levitre excelled at pass blocking under Gailey, and he wasn't all that good at run blocking as he graded slightly in the red at RBing.

 

 

Physical: This team has recently been looking to build the O line with massive players usually over 6'5'', 330 lbs with the thinking that bigger is better. Only Cujo at 322 Pears at 316, Urbik at 324 are under 330 lbs. So huge that they have difficulty in getting out of their own way. I'll take athletic over bloated masses any day. Now look at both the Dallas Cowboys & Denver Broncos lines, and nobody is over 325, as most are around 315. Dallas even has a 290 LT. These Bills don't look like they have been hitting that 1000lb blocking sled at all.

 

Mental: Way, way to many penalties on this team, and that comes down to coaching. Then there is the problem of not being able to properly pick up stunts, physical - mental, and coaching.

 

Bottom line: Talent can't be taught! This O line still needs an influx of talent, and better coaching. Hopefully this all gets fixed next year.

Edited October 25, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[todd]

Looks to me like the coaching is lacking. They are missing on basic stuff ... stuff that should have been covered in training camp. Or college football.

[nucci]

Honestly, how can such enormous men be THAT bad at run blocking and pass protecting? Even just getting in front of defenders to impede their progress would seemingly help in pass protection.

 

In the run game, it seems like huge guys pushing the DL should be able to open holes, but they don't.

 

Is it a physical thing or are they blocking the wrong guys (or nobody)?

 

If it's physical you really can't fix it. If it's mental THEN we could blame the coaches.

90% of the game is physical. The other half is mental

[Rockinon]

It's the lack of push in the run game that has me stumped. I understand that 2 rookies + one out of position Pears is just asking for trouble with the stunts on pass protection. But why so awful on the run blocking? Maybe it's lack of experience plus a little less talent than we thought?

I think the line coach is a moron. I watched the 1st run from scrimmage against Minnesota. Our OL drove the whole defensive line back with ease. It didn't look like any kind of zone blocking either. The just lined up and drove the man in front of them. I wish they would do more of that, because defenses are getting too cute. You fix that, by running strait at them, hat on a hat. When defenders are running sideways with stunts, put a hat on his sorry ass and make him pay for being cute. An OLman driving into a sideways running defender is going to get owned. Edited October 25, 2014 by Rockinon

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Both. Slow weak and dumb is no way to go in the NFL.

[ALF]

Both. Slow weak and dumb is no way to go in the NFL.

 

Thank you Dean Wormer

[Buffaloed in Pa]

That`s right Alfie. Worthless and weak.

[vincec]

Richardson is just too fat and top-heavy to move quickly enough to make the required blocks.

I agree that Richardson does need to work on transforming his body in the offseason. That's nothing that can be handled right now.

 

In the clips that I see, the are getting beat by men that they engage as well as missing stunts. So, the answer is both.

 

I also agree that Pears's build makes it harder for him to block DTs in pass protection that DEs. Especially since he really has to engage them early instead of stepping back to form the pocket. Hand fighting is obviously not Pears's specialty. Pears is an average NFL tackle.

 

Putting Urbik in looks like the last card that Marrone has to play so I don't know where he goes from here.

Edited October 26, 2014 by vincec

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Richardson is a pro now. He`s had plenty of time since rookie camp to work on his body. Put the fork down and walk away. He`s getting paid to be a pro. If your fat your lazy.