Bocephuz Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Unforced errors.. bad throws/ How did the O Line do?/ What mistakes are on the O-Line.. what ones are not? I watched the NFL rewind all 22 and here is my unofficial count of how the O-Line did / How Kyle did on every pass play ( I may have missed a snap or two here.. but this should be 95% accurate) DISCLAIMER ( I am not a coach, I don't know the hot reads or route combinations called.. this is just my educated perception of what happened on each pass play) _______ ______________________ TOTAL PASS PLAYS - 46 snaps ( last week was 41 .. The Bills having 40+ pass attempts again. Clearly the script has flipped in 2014 compared to 2013) LINE BREAKDOWN - 13 snaps or 28% of pass plays ( defined as - O-Line clearly messed up and Kyle did not have a moment to throw after hitting the last step of his drop.. last week was 26% so pass protect was slightly worse this week) SUFFICIENT PROTECTION; 33 snaps or 72% of pass plays ( defined as O-Line did sufficient job and Kyle hit the last step of his drop and had a moment to throw). UNFORCED KYLE ERRORS: - 5 snaps or 10 % of pass plays where he had time ( unforced error defined as Kyle having time and having unforced accuracy issues/ or taking bad sacks... last week it was 6 snaps or 15 %) Bottom Line:; Of the 12 incompletions only 4 were on Orton. He had 2 drops and the other 6 were due to pressure/ coverage. Orton is very consistent week to week.. this week was nearly a carbon copy of last week and the week before ( except for the 2 bad turnovers that were his fault). The O Line was worse than last week in pass protect. Glenn and Richardson got beat by the same stunt 3 times in the 4th quarter. Orton generally handled the pressure well.. he had at least two plays where he hung in there, got smacked in the face but delivered a completion. The INT was totally on him... plenty of time.. bad throw. Of the 5 unforced errors only 2 were egregiously bad throws.. one error was an unnecessary check down. PLAYS OF NOTE Q2 - sack in Red Zone on Eric Wood Q2 - Orton takes big hit in the face on blitz but delivers to Sammy Q3 - Orton takes hit ( Richardson beat) but still delivers to Sammy Q3 - Fumble in red zone – Totally on Orton.. good protection .. tried to do too much.. should have eaten the ball .. gave away at least 3 points there Q3 - Sack - Glenn and Richardson beat on stunt Q4 - Sack - Glenn and Richardson beat on same exact stunt Q4 - QB hurry – Glenn and Richardson beat on same exact stunt again Q4 - Sack - Richardson beat Q4 - Sack - both Tackles beaten ( Henderson beaten worse) As a side note: Richardson was absolutely horrendous in pass protection - he needs to be benched
yungmack Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I looked at the Orton fumble several times and it's still not clear to me that he did fumble. Running the video slowly, it seems his arm was going forward (not much but enough to qualify) and could as easily have been called an incomplete pass. It's borderline, a bang-bang play, but if you watch the whole game, anytime there was a borderline call, it went against the Bills. Like that Wright catch on, I think, the 24. If you have the video, look at it in slo-mo. He does have both feet down but he doesn't have control of the ball. By the time he pulls the pass in, his right foot is clearly off the ground. Again, a borderline call and again it goes against the Bills.
K-9 Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Unforced errors.. bad throws/ How did the O Line do?/ What mistakes are on the O-Line.. what ones are not? I watched the NFL rewind all 22 and here is my unofficial count of how the O-Line did / How Kyle did on every pass play ( I may have missed a snap or two here.. but this should be 95% accurate) DISCLAIMER ( I am not a coach, I don't know the hot reads or route combinations called.. this is just my educated perception of what happened on each pass play) _______ ______________________ TOTAL PASS PLAYS - 46 snaps ( last week was 41 .. The Bills having 40+ pass attempts again. Clearly the script has flipped in 2014 compared to 2013) LINE BREAKDOWN - 13 snaps or 28% of pass plays ( defined as - O-Line clearly messed up and Kyle did not have a moment to throw after hitting the last step of his drop.. last week was 26% so pass protect was slightly worse this week) SUFFICIENT PROTECTION; 33 snaps or 72% of pass plays ( defined as O-Line did sufficient job and Kyle hit the last step of his drop and had a moment to throw). UNFORCED KYLE ERRORS: - 5 snaps or 10 % of pass plays where he had time ( unforced error defined as Kyle having time and having unforced accuracy issues/ or taking bad sacks... last week it was 6 snaps or 15 %) Bottom Line:; Of the 12 incompletions only 4 were on Orton. He had 2 drops and the other 6 were due to pressure/ coverage. Orton is very consistent week to week.. this week was nearly a carbon copy of last week and the week before ( except for the 2 bad turnovers that were his fault). The O Line was worse than last week in pass protect. Glenn and Richardson got beat by the same stunt 3 times in the 4th quarter. Orton generally handled the pressure well.. he had at least two plays where he hung in there, got smacked in the face but delivered a completion. The INT was totally on him... plenty of time.. bad throw. Of the 5 unforced errors only 2 were egregiously bad throws.. one error was an unnecessary check down. PLAYS OF NOTE Q2 - sack in Red Zone on Eric Wood Q2 - Orton takes big hit in the face on blitz but delivers to Sammy Q3 - Orton takes hit ( Richardson beat) but still delivers to Sammy Q3 - Fumble in red zone – Totally on Orton.. good protection .. tried to do too much.. should have eaten the ball .. gave away at least 3 points there Q3 - Sack - Glenn and Richardson beat on stunt Q4 - Sack - Glenn and Richardson beat on same exact stunt Q4 - QB hurry – Glenn and Richardson beat on same exact stunt again Q4 - Sack - Richardson beat Q4 - Sack - both Tackles beaten ( Henderson beaten worse) As a side note: Richardson was absolutely horrendous in pass protection - he needs to be benched I'm shocked. GO BILLS!!!
Utah John Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 The title of this threat indicates Orton made a ton of unforced errors. In truth he played pretty well. Probably a B or B+ considering the last drive and what he had to overcome. If you saw Fitz stinking up the place last night, or recall EJ against the Texans, you have to feel pretty good about Orton.
dave mcbride Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Great post. To my amateur eye, it again looked to me that Richardson is simply not capable of playing in the NFL. He can barely move. From the Senior Bowl ( http://q.usatoday.co...fallers-monday/ ): "Unfortunately for Richardson, he faced [Aaron] Donald throughout the afternoon. Richardson never looked like the prospect often projected as a second- or early third-round prospect. The 343-pound lineman was blown off the ball and planted on his backside once by Donald, which drew oohs and ahhs from the coaches nearby. Richardson was slow off the snap and never showed the type of power a player of his size should. He was beaten regularly, by multiple players." Edited October 21, 2014 by dave mcbride
Bocephuz Posted October 21, 2014 Author Posted October 21, 2014 The title of this threat indicates Orton made a ton of unforced errors. In truth he played pretty well. Probably a B or B+ considering the last drive and what he had to overcome. If you saw Fitz stinking up the place last night, or recall EJ against the Texans, you have to feel pretty good about Orton. My title is a bit misleading... I would agree with a B grade ( if he doesn't have the 2 brutal turnovers ( both of which were unforced) I would have given him an A
26CornerBlitz Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 I looked at the Orton fumble several times and it's still not clear to me that he did fumble. Running the video slowly, it seems his arm was going forward (not much but enough to qualify) and could as easily have been called an incomplete pass. It's borderline, a bang-bang play, but if you watch the whole game, anytime there was a borderline call, it went against the Bills. Like that Wright catch on, I think, the 24. If you have the video, look at it in slo-mo. He does have both feet down but he doesn't have control of the ball. By the time he pulls the pass in, his right foot is clearly off the ground. Again, a borderline call and again it goes against the Bills. Empty hand = fumble.
Thunderstealer Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Glenn was great last week. Emerson Griffin beat him a couple of times last week but he's a hell of an athlete too.
Orton's Arm Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Bocephuz wrote > Orton is very consistent week to week.. this week was nearly a carbon copy of last week and the week before Thanks for taking the time each week to create this thread. It's something to which I always look forward. What you've written above sounds true. Orton seems like the same guy from week to week. It's not like he'll put up a dazzling performance one week and a stinker the next. You pretty much know what to expect from him going into the game. I'm glad to hear Orton committed unforced errors on only 10% of passing plays this week; as opposed to 15% from last week. Granted, there's a strong chance that's due to random statistical fluctuation. But it could also be a result of him becoming more comfortable in Hackett's offense, and more familiar with the Bills' WRs. > The O Line was worse than last week in pass protect. 28% of pass plays were lost right off the bat because Orton didn't have even a moment to throw after completing his drop back. But there are also "gray area" plays. Plays in which the offensive line blocked well enough to give Orton a moment to look downfield. But not as well as it should have. For example, suppose the defense sends just a three man rush; while sending eight guys into coverage. The QB is supposed to have a long time to throw on plays like that, due to the lack of pass rushers. On the other hand, the secondary is supposed to be able to keep guys covered for a long time, due to having all those guys in pass coverage. If the offensive line were to break down rather quickly on a play like that--as it's been known to do--Orton would still have had his "moment to throw," thus preventing that from counting as part of the 28%. But poor performance from the OL would nonetheless have ruined the play. I know you've acknowledged my point already. I just want the people reading this thread to realize--if they don't already--that our offensive line is bad. Worse than that 28% figure may make it seem.
Bocephuz Posted October 21, 2014 Author Posted October 21, 2014 Indeed.. A lot of screen passes.. Bubble screens.. 3 step drops to compensate for the bad o lone skews the percentage
YoloinOhio Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Indeed.. A lot of screen passes.. Bubble screens.. 3 step drops to compensate for the bad o lone skews the percentage havent read thru the entire thread but saw someone else had broken down the all 22 on twitter and said he didn't think the OL was capable of effectively screen blocking. Your thoughts?
Bocephuz Posted October 21, 2014 Author Posted October 21, 2014 O line has done a generally poor job blocking called screen plays. Urbik and Andy Levitre used to be masters of that under Chan
filthymcnasty08 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 O line has done a generally poor job blocking called screen plays. Urbik and Andy Levitre used to be masters of that under Chan Who the hell is Urbik?
hondo in seattle Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Unforced errors.. bad throws/ How did the O Line do?/ What mistakes are on the O-Line.. what ones are not? I watched the NFL rewind all 22 and here is my unofficial count of how the O-Line did / How Kyle did on every pass play ( I may have missed a snap or two here.. but this should be 95% accurate) DISCLAIMER ( I am not a coach, I don't know the hot reads or route combinations called.. this is just my educated perception of what happened on each pass play) _______ ______________________ TOTAL PASS PLAYS - 46 snaps ( last week was 41 .. The Bills having 40+ pass attempts again. Clearly the script has flipped in 2014 compared to 2013) LINE BREAKDOWN - 13 snaps or 28% of pass plays ( defined as - O-Line clearly messed up and Kyle did not have a moment to throw after hitting the last step of his drop.. last week was 26% so pass protect was slightly worse this week) SUFFICIENT PROTECTION; 33 snaps or 72% of pass plays ( defined as O-Line did sufficient job and Kyle hit the last step of his drop and had a moment to throw). UNFORCED KYLE ERRORS: - 5 snaps or 10 % of pass plays where he had time ( unforced error defined as Kyle having time and having unforced accuracy issues/ or taking bad sacks... last week it was 6 snaps or 15 %) Bottom Line:; Of the 12 incompletions only 4 were on Orton. He had 2 drops and the other 6 were due to pressure/ coverage. Orton is very consistent week to week.. this week was nearly a carbon copy of last week and the week before ( except for the 2 bad turnovers that were his fault). The O Line was worse than last week in pass protect. Glenn and Richardson got beat by the same stunt 3 times in the 4th quarter. Orton generally handled the pressure well.. he had at least two plays where he hung in there, got smacked in the face but delivered a completion. The INT was totally on him... plenty of time.. bad throw. Of the 5 unforced errors only 2 were egregiously bad throws.. one error was an unnecessary check down. PLAYS OF NOTE Q2 - sack in Red Zone on Eric Wood Q2 - Orton takes big hit in the face on blitz but delivers to Sammy Q3 - Orton takes hit ( Richardson beat) but still delivers to Sammy Q3 - Fumble in red zone – Totally on Orton.. good protection .. tried to do too much.. should have eaten the ball .. gave away at least 3 points there Q3 - Sack - Glenn and Richardson beat on stunt Q4 - Sack - Glenn and Richardson beat on same exact stunt Q4 - QB hurry – Glenn and Richardson beat on same exact stunt again Q4 - Sack - Richardson beat Q4 - Sack - both Tackles beaten ( Henderson beaten worse) As a side note: Richardson was absolutely horrendous in pass protection - he needs to be benched Great work! The stats on the OL impact are disheartening - though not surprising. Bocephuz, I doubt if you have time to do this but it would be awesome if we could get comparative data on other QBs. Are Orton's numbers, when you break them down like this, comparatively good? Or weak?
CardinalScotts Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Glenn was great last week. Emerson Griffin beat him a couple of times last week but he's a hell of an athlete too. thanks for mentioning Griffin is a hell of an athlete too- sometimes we forget the other team has good players too
Kelly the Dog Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Great stuff again, dude. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Kudos. And it seems like a very fair, no agenda reading. I think when we see the OL get abused so much it seems like every play but it's really not. Orton had plenty of time to throw on most of his attempts.
Gray Beard Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Great work, thanks again. I was yelling for Orton to throw the ball a few times. I think he occasionally holds on too long and gets himself in trouble. I know Brady has time to order a pizza while he waits back there while the Bills rush three guys, but Orton doesn't have that luxury. Sometimes I think the clock in his head must get stuck and he forgets to throw it away if there isn't anybody open.
Dibs Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Unforced errors.. bad throws/ How did the O Line do?/ What mistakes are on the O-Line.. what ones are not? I watched the NFL rewind all 22 and here is my unofficial count of how the O-Line did / How Kyle did on every pass play ( I may have missed a snap or two here.. but this should be 95% accurate) DISCLAIMER ( I am not a coach, I don't know the hot reads or route combinations called.. this is just my educated perception of what happened on each pass play) _______ ______________________ TOTAL PASS PLAYS - 46 snaps ( last week was 41 .. The Bills having 40+ pass attempts again. Clearly the script has flipped in 2014 compared to 2013) LINE BREAKDOWN - 13 snaps or 28% of pass plays ( defined as - O-Line clearly messed up and Kyle did not have a moment to throw after hitting the last step of his drop.. last week was 26% so pass protect was slightly worse this week) SUFFICIENT PROTECTION; 33 snaps or 72% of pass plays ( defined as O-Line did sufficient job and Kyle hit the last step of his drop and had a moment to throw). UNFORCED KYLE ERRORS: - 5 snaps or 10 % of pass plays where he had time ( unforced error defined as Kyle having time and having unforced accuracy issues/ or taking bad sacks... last week it was 6 snaps or 15 %) Bottom Line:; Of the 12 incompletions only 4 were on Orton. He had 2 drops and the other 6 were due to pressure/ coverage. Orton is very consistent week to week.. this week was nearly a carbon copy of last week and the week before ( except for the 2 bad turnovers that were his fault). The O Line was worse than last week in pass protect. Glenn and Richardson got beat by the same stunt 3 times in the 4th quarter. Orton generally handled the pressure well.. he had at least two plays where he hung in there, got smacked in the face but delivered a completion. The INT was totally on him... plenty of time.. bad throw. Of the 5 unforced errors only 2 were egregiously bad throws.. one error was an unnecessary check down. PLAYS OF NOTE Q2 - sack in Red Zone on Eric Wood Q2 - Orton takes big hit in the face on blitz but delivers to Sammy Q3 - Orton takes hit ( Richardson beat) but still delivers to Sammy Q3 - Fumble in red zone – Totally on Orton.. good protection .. tried to do too much.. should have eaten the ball .. gave away at least 3 points there Q3 - Sack - Glenn and Richardson beat on stunt Q4 - Sack - Glenn and Richardson beat on same exact stunt Q4 - QB hurry – Glenn and Richardson beat on same exact stunt again Q4 - Sack - Richardson beat Q4 - Sack - both Tackles beaten ( Henderson beaten worse) As a side note: Richardson was absolutely horrendous in pass protection - he needs to be benched No mention of Pears? Does this mean he had a better game than previous weeks? I know he is the current TSW whipping boy but it sure would be handy if he is actually adjusting to the OG position and improving to mediocre levels.
Rocky Landing Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I looked at the Orton fumble several times and it's still not clear to me that he did fumble. Running the video slowly, it seems his arm was going forward (not much but enough to qualify) and could as easily have been called an incomplete pass. It's borderline, a bang-bang play, but if you watch the whole game, anytime there was a borderline call, it went against the Bills. Like that Wright catch on, I think, the 24. If you have the video, look at it in slo-mo. He does have both feet down but he doesn't have control of the ball. By the time he pulls the pass in, his right foot is clearly off the ground. Again, a borderline call and again it goes against the Bills. I certainly wouldn't say that the refs were biased against us-- we got away with a few things, too. But, I know what you are saying. I thought the Hogan fumble was BS, also. It sure looked to me like his knees were on the ground before the ball came out, but not enough there to overturn the call on the field. Really, to me the officiating all season has looked inconsistent as hell. Anyone else feel this way?
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