Hackett is bad, like very bad

[markgbe]

wat? Who cares? This team is doing better than it has it quite a while. Can't we just watch and enjoy the game without pitchforking the players and staff every week? i mean, ESPECIALLY after a win. This place is f'ing bonkers.

Edited October 21, 2014 by markgbe

[Clippers of Nfl]

And what is it that you suggest?

 

And to answer your question, yes. I think it does suit our outside skill players and our weakness upfront. I think it's also a brand of football that simply doesn't go out of style. It's a winning approach.

 

It's already been posted here, but I'll come right back and ask: do you think the offense is struggling to move the ball? If yes, how do you account for the statistics that show we're comfortably above average in that department?

 

In three games, the Orton-led offense--if not for fumbles, which have NOTHING to do with the OC--has failed to score a TD in the red zone ONCE.

 

So, while every armchair coach on this message board has a better grasp of our team's strengths than the coaches do, the only complains I've seen are how we're using our guys and playcalling (a critique that I've assailed for years, and will continue to since nobody outside the huddle or locker room knows which plays are called, which are audibled into or out of and where execution failures occur. Even the all-22 analyses surrender this knowledge gap, so spare me.)

 

So outside of play calling and player utilization, what's there to complain about? Production? Points? We've squared off against a top-10 practically every week this season, and rarely has the offense looked stymied. So what's the complaint?

 

I'll even help you out and tell you EXACTLY when/how our offense has stalled:

1. Penalties
    
   
2. Sacks (OL breakdowns)
    
   
3. Spiller taking negative yards trying to bounce
    
   
4. Penalties
    
   
5. Drops
    
   
6. Penalties
   

Really? Rarely. It's every freaking game. What do you mean rarely. It reads like you think our offense is #1 in everything. Wow. Rarely.....

[FireChan]

 

No. I have already said 3-4,times in this thread what I think we should do.

 

I think you make it sound too easy.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

Because we can't block and because until three weeks ago, we didn't have anyone under center reliable enough to make those pre-snap reads. May be it will be phased in? Who knows? But the OLine is certainly not equipped to stay on an island

Spreading out the field can mask the glaring deficiencies in the OL. Letting teams put two more players in front of them and not leaving quick reliable outlets for the QB for blitzes the OL cannot handle exacerbates the problem.

[The Big Cat]

Really? Rarely. It's every freaking game. What do you mean rarely. It reads like you think our offense is #1 in everything. Wow. Rarely.....

 

In fact I went out of my way to make sure that nobody thought I was arguing that the offense was great. But if that's the case you need me to make for YOUR point to hold up, fine. They call that a straw man.

 

Where do you think--without looking--the Bills rank in the NFL in 3 and out pct?

 

Spreading out the field can mask the glaring deficiencies in the OL. Letting teams put two more players in front of them and not leaving quick reliable outlets for the QB for blitzes the OL cannot handle exacerbates the problem.

 

IF the QB can find the guy quickly and efficiently. Are you comfortable with Orton doing this? If your job was on the line, would you? On the road in Orton's first start against the Lions, would you?

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

I think you make it sound too easy.

It is. I started out saying I don't even mind Hackett's play calling for the most part. The play design itself, especially in the pass game is often good. I don't mind us running the amount we do. I also didn't and don't criticize him for when EJ was in there.

 

We have the offense I think would be better already there. It's playing to the strengths of your players, not their weaknesses. This wouldn't work with EJ. To me, it's glaringly obvious with Orton.

 

 

 

In fact I went out of my way to make sure that nobody thought I was arguing that the offense was great. But if that's the case you need me to make for YOUR point to hold up, fine. They call that a straw man.

 

Where do you think--without looking--the Bills rank in the NFL in 3 and out pct?

 

 

 

IF the QB can find the guy quickly and efficiently. Are you comfortable with Orton doing this? If your job was on the line, would you? On the road in Orton's first start against the Lions, would you?

Yes. It's his greatest strength.

[Clippers of Nfl]

My single biggest problem with Hackett is that we basically play with 2 downs instead of 3 before we have to punt

 

Why do I say that? Because he is so predictable on first down with that between the tackles dive running play that teams KNOW he is gonna do it.....and it seems like we get nothing out of that play

 

Now we are in 2nd and 9 or 2 and 8.......

 

My only hope at this point is that with a big bruizing back that turns into a 2nd and 6 or a 2nd and 5 more consistantly

 

it makes a huge difference

He's like that classic episode on Spongebob where Sponge keeps ripping his pants. Where everywhere Sponge goes he rips his pants. Then people get used to it and the joke wears down till it's not funny anymore.

[NoSaint]

 

 

His GM gave him road graders who can't get out into space for plays that CJ excels at. How is this Hackett's fault?? He was given a power running team.

 

so you are going with the argument that whaley is ignoring the scheme, not that the scheme is dictating what whaley is bringing in?

[Clippers of Nfl]

In fact I went out of my way to make sure that nobody thought I was arguing that the offense was great. But if that's the case you need me to make for YOUR point to hold up, fine. They call that a straw man.

 

Where do you think--without looking--the Bills rank in the NFL in 3 and out pct?

 

 

 

IF the QB can find the guy quickly and efficiently. Are you comfortable with Orton doing this? If your job was on the line, would you? On the road in Orton's first start against the Lions, would you?

Straw man argument. Nice. When someone says something radical, it will get pointed out. Sorry.

I'm not the one who thinks our offense has rarely look stymied... In all honestly, I think the decent play of Orton has clouded your judgement. Anyway I do have to get stuff done. I'll wrap with you guys later.

[The Big Cat]

Straw man argument. Nice. When someone says something radical, it will get pointed out. Sorry.

I'm not the one who thinks our offense has rarely look stymied... In all honestly, I think the decent play of Orton has clouded your judgement. Anyway I do have to get stuff done. I'll wrap with you guys later.

 

Except...again...I never said the offense was great. That was the strawman YOU made, buddy.

 

Try to keep up.

[Clippers of Nfl]

Except...again...I never said the offense was great. That was the strawman YOU made, buddy.

 

Try to keep up.

By saying our offense has barely stumbled... That is radical. That carries more weight than anything you type.

Don't type something radical and I wont call you on it. I promise.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Clippers of Nfl

[The Big Cat]

By saying our offense has barely stumbled... That is radical. That carries more weight than anything you type.

Don't type something radical and I wont call you on it. I promise.

 

If you don't want to be accused of strawmen arguments, the least you could do is repeat back the words I used.

 

"Has barely stumbled" vs. "has rarely been stymied."

 

One (the one I didn't say) implies an offense galloping along with rarely an obstruction in sight.

 

The other suggests that the offense hasn't been regularly confused by the defenses...because...it hasn't been. They're prepared for the looks, they have receivers running free and from a COORDINATOR's standpoint, they've been consistently adequate in designing plays to account for the tendencies of the opposing defense.

[Wayne Cubed]

 

The great drive we had last game and went eighty yards and scored was when we abandoned the Hackett offense and spread it out. We had three WR the whole time and one RB. The other TD, I even admitted was rewarding bad behavior because we had three TE in. But it was a long pass to Watkins because Orton saw he had one guy on him and he beat him off the line.

 

The first drive of the game, with a non spread formation went 6 plays 50 yards before a fumble derailed that.

 

I don't have a problem with the spread formation and see its advantages, but when the formation they are using is working, they could have scored at least 4 times last game, I don't get what the argument is.

[Deranged Rhino]

But the OLine is certainly not equipped to stay on an island.

 

The incorrect assumption you continue to make is to assume that spreading the field puts the O-Line on an island. It does not. It makes their job easier by giving them less people to block. Until you figure that part of it out, the rest of what Kelly and folks are saying will continue to go over your head.

[Kelly the Dog]

The first drive of the game, with a non spread formation went 6 plays 50 yards before a fumble derailed that.

 

I don't have a problem with the spread formation and see its advantages, but when the formation they are using is working, they could have scored at least 4 times last game, I don't get what the argument is.

We needed an 80 yard drive in the last two minutes to score 17 points. I get that we fumbled but we also had a few turnovers and our defense consistently gets the ball back to the offense. The OC decided to use the best player we have as a decoy. They keep players on the field that do not do their jobs and do not help, and often hurt (Lee Smith).

 

We cannot run, IMO, because there are too many many in the box not only because of our OL deficiency but just as much because of our formations that cause a safety to move up and an extra LB on the field instead of a CB. We do not get the ball out quickly to guys on the run as much and when we do, like last week, you see the results (Sammy on slants). We have good players on the bench and bad players on the field.

 

The game should have been a blowout, IMO. I'm thrilled with the win, it was lucky we scrapped the Lee Smith/Frank Summers nonsense when he was forced to.

[The Big Cat]

The incorrect assumption you continue to make is to assume that spreading the field puts the O-Line on an island. It does not. It makes their job easier by giving them less people to block. Until you figure that part of it out, the rest of what Kelly and folks are saying will continue to go over your head.

 

I understand the concept. But I'm not confident in our line giving Orton time with only four rushers.

[Deranged Rhino]

I understand the concept. But I'm not confident in our line giving Orton time with only four rushers.

 

But you are confident in the line giving him time with six to seven rushers?

 

Because that's what happens when you bunch the field.

[Kelly the Dog]

I understand the concept. But I'm not confident in our line giving Orton time with only four rushers.

I group Marrone and Hackett together on this, because I am not sure how much of Marrone is making Hackett do things. He needs to scrap his stubborn theory of playing players out of position. Pears cannot play OG.

[The Big Cat]

But you are confident in the line giving him time with six to seven rushers?

 

Because that's what happens when you bunch the field.

 

When did I say that?

 

And why do we so fondly remember the spread we hated when Chan used it?

[DC Greg]

But you are confident in the line giving him time with six to seven rushers?

 

Because that's what happens when you bunch the field.

 

Exactly. If you spread it out, they HAVE to send more out to cover those guys. If they don't, it's pitch and catch for 6-7 yard gains well before a pass rusher can get there.