Canadian Bills Fan Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 One thing that I love about Orton is how he bounces back after turnovers. CBF
bobobonators Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 Well, that seals it. I am going to get strung up for this, but I think that EJ sells the play action better than Orton does and that this does in fact help with the run game. This, along with running in general, would be one of the few things he does better right now. Orton should be the man -- there is no question. The question is, why does it have to be "haters" vs everyone else? That's no fairer than "fanboys" vs. "realists." Orton is the best QB the Bills have right now, he might always be better than EJ, and he is a flawed QB -- like most anyone who isn't in the top 5-8. His flaws will be exposed at times and so far the team is fortunate to be 2-1 with him, but he has definitely played a big part in the cause for victory and in making it as close as it has been. I personally like EJ a lot and want him to succeed. I'll root my ASS off for EJ if (when) he goes in there again. But facts are facts: our passing game is much much better with Orton. We just need to get our run game going to balance things out.
Campy Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) I have been pleasantly surprised with Orton's play thus far and while I don't think he's "the answer," I think his biggest value to the team is that EJ gets to watch and learn an NFL veteran study and prepare for the first time. Edited October 20, 2014 by Campy
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 I personally like EJ a lot and want him to succeed. I'll root my ASS off for EJ if (when) he goes in there again. But facts are facts: our passing game is much much better with Orton. We just need to get our run game going to balance things out. No doubt. I was just saying that I don't think that EJ's success - when there in fact was any - and the run game clicking are mutually exclusive.
papazoid Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 I like that orton #1- keeps his composure, especially late in games. #2- much more accurate than EJ on mid and deep throws.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) without looking, i'd say orton gets credit for a higher degree of difficulty initially w/o looking I'd disagree. Chicago - D meh Dulfins D - pretty good Chargers D - Pretty good Houston D - pretty good - JJ Watt - nuf said Detroit D - Pretty good Putrids D - not very good Vikes D – not very good Edited October 20, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Heels20X6 Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 kyle orton is mediocre (ranked 16th is passer rating). which is a huge improvement over the awful EJ (ranked 30th in passer rating). having said that, for a veteran, orton makes a lot of mental mistakes that lead to big negative plays (sacks, fumbles), as evidenced by his poor QBR rating of rank 28th (EJ was 32nd). it's been awhile since ive seen a QB under pressure, go down so easily as compared to other qb's. This right here should end this thread. No one here "hates Orton" (maybe a select few do). But he's not the long-term answer at QB. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the win yesterday. It would just be really nice if we had an elite QB. Seems like almost every team has one now except us.
bobobonators Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 No doubt. I was just saying that I don't think that EJ's success - when there in fact was any - and the run game clicking are mutually exclusive. I don't think the run games struggles are Orton's fault. The run game was struggling under EJ too. The run game's struggles fall on this crap O-line. In 2 games under EJ this year we didn't reach 100yds rushing. That only happened a handful of times all of last season. We haven't rushed for 100yds in 3 games this season. Pitiful for this team and that's on the O-line.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 I like that orton #1- keeps his composure, especially late in games. #2- much more accurate than EJ on mid and deep throws. how was his accuracy late in the 4th ???/ IF not for Sammy getting a mit on the ball, the pass would have been intercepted, GAME OVER !!! Bills lose by 6
section122 Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 how was his accuracy late in the 4th ???/ IF not for Sammy getting a mit on the ball, the pass would have been intercepted, GAME OVER !!! Bills lose by 6 Or the lions game where Sammy tipped it to himself.
bobobonators Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 initially w/o looking I'd disagree. Chicago - D meh Dulfins D - pretty good Chargers D - Pretty good Houston D - pretty good - JJ Watt - nuf said Detroit D - Pretty good Putrids D - not very good Vikes D – not very good Not sure what world you live in but Pats and Vikings are both top 15 defenses (pts/game) and are both ranked higher than Miami and Chicago according to NFL.com. Keep living in your warped fantasy land though. Oh yea - and detroit is #2 Defense Pts/game. Best defense we've gone up against this season.
FireChan Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 initially w/o looking I'd disagree. Chicago - D meh Dulfins D - pretty good Chargers D - Pretty good Houston D - pretty good - JJ Watt - nuf said Detroit D - Pretty good Putrids D - not very good Vikes D – not very good Did EJ tell you the defensive rankings? That's the only explanation for this.
Green Lightning Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 I'm not sure what we are arguing here because even the people that are "hating" (ops word not mine) Orton most likely agree with almost everything you said. The only thing I can't jump on board with yet is whether not EJ is the long term answer. Orton: quicker release, more accurate, better yardage stats, less points Manuel: more mobility, less turnovers, less sacks, more points It is a pick your poison with both of them. The only thing I will say is we know what Orton is and it is mediocre, this year that might be enough to get it done. We have no idea where Manuel will end up. I know where we would end up with EJ. We'd be 2 and 5 and playing the Jets for last place. Deal with it, Orton is flat out better and gives us the best chance to win right now. Now we have multiple threads on how our OL sucks and only one thread on our QB play. I'll give EJ credit though, he was into the game and helpful on the sidelines instead of sulking
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Not sure what world you live in but Pats and Vikings are both top 15 defenses (pts/game) and are both ranked higher than Miami and Chicago according to NFL.com. Keep living in your warped fantasy land though. Oh yea - and detroit is #2 Defense Pts/game. Best defense we've gone up against this season. why is it many announcers say that Pats D is bad then? nice to see how you all omitted San Diego, BTW... where do you get your stats? because I get different numbers depending on the site Per NFL.com Total (fewest) yards per game - Detroit # 1 Miami #4 Chargers #5 Bills # 11 Putrids # 12 Vikes #14 Chicago # 17 Houston # 29 - Who has the gaul to say Houston's D sucks? do you want total (fewest) points allowed? #2 Detroit #3 San Diego #5 Houston #10 Miami #15 Bills #18 Putrids #20 Vikings #24 Chicago Edited October 20, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever
section122 Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 I know where we would end up with EJ. We'd be 2 and 5 and playing the Jets for last place. Deal with it, Orton is flat out better and gives us the best chance to win right now. Now we have multiple threads on how our OL sucks and only one thread on our QB play. I'll give EJ credit though, he was into the game and helpful on the sidelines instead of sulking Did you miss the post I responded to? The one that included this: Whos the better QB at this point, Ej or Orton? Clearly Orton. Who gives us the better chance to win, EJ or Orton? Clearly Orton. What are we arguing here? Do I think Ortons a long term answer? No. Do I think EJ's a long term answer? No. I was responding to the very last part of the post. I also disagree that we would be 2-5 as the defense played a huge role in both of Orton's win but we will never know that so I don't care to argue that...
MDH Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 2-1 as a starter, Jack. Aren't you always the guy saying W's tell the tale? After 3 games EJ was 2-1 as well. One game later he was benched. The offence needs to be better. More points, fewer negative plays, fewer turnovers. This D is capable of carrying the team most weeks, just stop turning the ball over, stop taking needless sacks and being called for ridiculous penalties. This offence keeps putting themselves in holes no matter who the QB is. It's obviously not all on the QB but a lot of it is. Much like some other posters I had a lot of patience with EJ because of his lack of experience. I don't have nearly as much with Orton. I really don't understand the posters who have the opposite opinion. Seems like there were plenty who wanted EJ gone at all costs while they'll overlook Ortons warts. If we should have patience with anybody it should be the young QB learning on the job as he has the ability to get better. With Orton this is what you get. I hope it's good enough for the playoffs.
Tu-Toned Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 I guess the only thing bugging me about him right now is his statuesque like presence in the face of heat and his inability to escape even the most subtle pressure. But as long as he keeps performing in the clutch like that, I am loving me some Uncle Rico right now!
thebandit27 Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 I think Orton has been fine. Average is probably right. The team has scored 17, 22, and 17 points with him at the helm. Obviously it's not all on him; the QB does have the greatest effect on the productivity of the offense. The most important thing is that he's given them a chance to win every game in which he's played. Whether he's average, or slightly above (or below), for 2 of 3 games, he's been good enough. How that translates to wins//losses long term is open for debate. My opinion is that this team better not be counting on him to be a franchise guy.
bobobonators Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 why is it many announcers say that Pats D is bad then? nice to see how you all omitted San Diego, What are you even arguing at this point bro? What do announcers have anything to do with this - in your warped mind you said EJ played tougher defenses. Facts prove otherwise. Detroit is best defense we've played so far, and the Vikings and Pats are both better defensively than Miami/Chicago (pts/game). So EJ played San Diego which is ranked #3 - and we saw what happened. Your post was factually incorrect. It was based on opinions (yours) and those opinions were factually wrong - much the same way your opinions on Orton are wrong.
Donald Duck Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 Kyle Orton is currently 3rd in the National Football League in completion percentage, 5th in yards/game...
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