Kyle Orton Haters

[negativo]

I hate the way Orton keeps rallying the Bills to wins with clutch play. Hate how he's throwing the ball quickly, decisively and with accuracy. Hate how he's demonstrating strong field generalship, bailing out a sieve offensive line, and overcoming no running game. Really pissed about it, actually. What a mistake it was benching EJ for this guy.

[garbag3man]

I still think EJ has what it takes to be an NFL QB, and a good one for the Bills.

 

I also think that KO gives us the best chance to win this year, as he has more experience playing behind absolutely HORRID OL play. I said a few years ago, that Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco were the worst things to happen to rookie QB's in a long time, and I am pretty sure that it is a big part of why we expect EJ to be a stud QB in what is still 13 starts in the NFL.

 

I don't think that young QBs should be asked to throw as much as EJ has, especially considering the stable of RBs that we have. Everyone needs to stop pushing their agenda on this, because it leads to some silly things being said.

 

All we hear on this board is about how many more "downfield" throws that we have seen in the last 3 weeks, which is just silly. EJ threw 68% of his passes 10 yards or fewer. KO has thrown 65% of his passes < 10 yards. WOW, big difference there.

 

KO has had a healthy Sammy Watkins, and he is throwing for more yards because he's being asked to throw the ball 40+ times a game. That may be because the OC trusts him with the offense more, but I don't put any stock into things that Nate Hackett thinks at this point.

 

tl;dr: let's all take a step back, and stop just spouting things off. We're all Bills fans, and this is most likely the best thing for the team this season, and for any chance at salvaging EJ's career with the BIlls (as much as some fans don't ever want to see that happen).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR, and I'm curious as to where all of the hate is coming from. Over the past three weeks, Orton has averaged 297 yards, 1.66 TDs, and 1 INT per game. If you extrapolate his numbers over an entire 16 game season, he would finish with 4,750 yards, 27 TDs and 16 INT.

 

So, with that being said, I don't get how anyone can say that he's even been average. Honestly, Orton has performed like a borderline top 10 QB over the past 3 weeks, and he's done this while being with the team for less than 2 months.

 

Over the past three weeks, Orton has put up those numbers with terrible o-line play, and no running game to speak of. And then to top it off, he's done all of this against three top 10 pass defenses (based on YPG, 2 top 10 defenses if you go by passer rating against). Also, in regard to his turnovers, he's on pace for 16 INTs. Romo, Luck, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Rivers and Brees have all had 18+ INT seasons. So, does that mean that they're all average QBs?

 

Oh, and not to mention, the Bills are 2-1 under Orton, and in both games he played some of his best football when it mattered the most to lead the Bills to wins. So, lets hear it, why should I be underwhelmed with Orton's performances over the past three weeks?

 

Can we please quit with the "criticism" = "hating" rhetoric?

 

The fact is that throwing a ton does not equate to great QB play. Making good decisions with the ball as well as throwing accurately and not throwing it away = good QB play.

I can't speak for you - you're welcome to throw bouquets all about for Orton if that floats your boat.

 

For me, I don't like the strip-sack and the fumble. I would like to see better field awareness and ball security. It's one thing to be aggressive and hold on to the ball on your opponent's 30 yd line, when arguably a 3rd down pick on a deep pass or strip is not too different than the result of a punt and a touchback, and perhaps costs 3 points. It's another deep in your own territory. You need to have better ball security there to avoid giving up cheap points. That's the sort of thing a better than average veteran has to understand.

 

And I really don't want to see "it's OK for him to throw all those INTs because really great QB have had high INT seasons". Yes, a career great QB can have a bad season where he throws lots of picks - how successful were their teams during those QB high INT seasons? The answer is "not very, because in those years that overall great QB was not very good and hurt the team". Example: In 2010 when Brees threw 22 INTs, his team finished 2nd in the division. In 2012 they finished 3rd. The year Big Ben threw 23 picks, the Steelers went 8-8 and finished 3rd in their division. Ditto Romo and the Cowboys.

 

To be a winning team, you have to win the turnover battle. When you turn the ball over 3 times, and the QB is responsible for 2 of those, sorry he doesn't get anointed "borderline great".

 

Note: this is not hating, it's realism. To succeed in football, keep the ball. That's fundamental. Is Orton a better choice than EJ right now, yes. Is he playing great football, no. He's showing some flashes, but he needs to do better with ball security.

[John Cocktosten]

Why is it if someone criticizes someone they are a hater of that player and a lover of the player behind him? Im so tired of this board mentality because no one can openly discuss the pros and cons of a player.

 

You just answered your own question. Saying that Orton has played bad enough for the Bills to be 0-3 is the most ludicrous thing I've ever read on this board and that's saying something.

 

You say you want to "talk football" but and in the same breath you say " He's also came through when we got a break late at end of games to steal 2 wins ". Is that "talking football or spinning the hell out what actually has happened? His second half numbers stack up against anybody's in the NFL and you're "logic" is that "we got a break"? So if a QB has near perfect RZ, 3rd down and second half play he's "getting a break". Got it.

 

So here's the answer to your own question, the reason why people are labeled "EJ lovers" is because they try to degrade the very obvious good play of Orton when the stats, splits, and results clearly paint a much different picture.

 

[bobobonators]

Can we please quit with the "criticism" = "hating" rhetoric?

 

The fact is that throwing a ton does not equate to great QB play. Making good decisions with the ball as well as throwing accurately and not throwing it away = good QB play.

I can't speak for you - you're welcome to throw bouquets all about for Orton if that floats your boat.

 

For me, I don't like the strip-sack and the fumble. I would like to see better field awareness and ball security. It's one thing to be aggressive and hold on to the ball on your opponent's 30 yd line, when arguably a 3rd down pick on a deep pass or strip is not too different than the result of a punt and a touchback, and perhaps costs 3 points. It's another deep in your own territory. You need to have better ball security there to avoid giving up cheap points. That's the sort of thing a better than average veteran has to understand.

 

And I really don't want to see "it's OK for him to throw all those INTs because really great QB have had high INT seasons". Yes, a career great QB can have a bad season where he throws lots of picks - how successful were their teams during those QB high INT seasons? The answer is "not very, because in those years that overall great QB was not very good and hurt the team". Example: In 2010 when Brees threw 22 INTs, his team finished 2nd in the division. In 2012 they finished 3rd. The year Big Ben threw 23 picks, the Steelers went 8-8 and finished 3rd in their division. Ditto Romo and the Cowboys.

 

To be a winning team, you have to win the turnover battle. When you turn the ball over 3 times, and the QB is responsible for 2 of those, sorry he doesn't get anointed "borderline great".

 

Note: this is not hating, it's realism. To succeed in football, keep the ball. That's fundamental. Is Orton a better choice than EJ right now, yes. Is he playing great football, no. He's showing some flashes, but he needs to do better with ball security.

 

I agree.

 

Our O-line also needs to improve pass protecting. We need both. Yesterday's fumble i 100% blame Orton. The strip sack from the blind side is 50/50 man. 9 times out of 10 a QB loses that ball on a strip sack like that. Glenn got beat bad. I guess Orton could've gotten rid of it sooner..

[Alphadawg7]

I love how you criticize the board, but then post that jaded, one-side argument. Just look at the bold. It's trash. You're as much a part of the problem as those you seem to critique. Carry on though.

 

How many sides is one person supposed to be in an argument? LMAO...are you serious with this post? Ok, so let me argue for and against each side. You either have an opinion or you don't. I stated my Opinion. I am not a journalist capturing the essence of both parties, I am sharing my opinion on the matter.

 

What I criticized is the ABSURD notion about how that makes me a "hater" of Orton. I don't hate Orton, I want him to win, I want this team to win. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN I CANT CRITICIZE THE SUB PAR PLAY by him or anyone on this team. And right now, this offense is NOT playing well enough to win consistently. That includes EJs last 2 games, the OL, Hackett, and receivers dropping passes too.

[FireChan]

 

 

How many sides is one person supposed to be in an argument? LMAO...are you serious with this post? Ok, so let me argue for and against each side. You either have an opinion or you don't. I stated my Opinion. I am not a journalist capturing the essence of both parties, I am sharing my opinion on the matter.

 

What I criticized is the ABSURD notion about how that makes me a "hater" of Orton. I don't hate Orton, I want him to win, I want this team to win. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN I CANT CRITICIZE THE SUB PAR PLAY by him or anyone on this team. And right now, this offense is NOT playing well enough to win consistently. That includes EJs last 2 games, the OL, Hackett, and receivers dropping passes too.

 

In your opinion, how many games did EJ "steal" this year? If the answer is 0, you're biased. SEE YA.

[bobobonators]

How many sides is one person supposed to be in an argument? LMAO...are you serious with this post? Ok, so let me argue for and against each side. You either have an opinion or you don't. I stated my Opinion. I am not a journalist capturing the essence of both parties, I am sharing my opinion on the matter.

 

What I criticized is the ABSURD notion about how that makes me a "hater" of Orton. I don't hate Orton, I want him to win, I want this team to win. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN I CANT CRITICIZE THE SUB PAR PLAY by him or anyone on this team. And right now, this offense is NOT playing well enough to win consistently. That includes EJs last 2 games, the OL, Hackett, and receivers dropping passes too.

 

Criticizing is one thing, living in an imaginary world where we're 0-3 under Orton is another. If you can't see just how warped your entire post was, then there's nothing more to say. Again, carry on.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

This right here should end this thread. No one here "hates Orton" (maybe a select few do). But he's not the long-term answer at QB.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the win yesterday. It would just be really nice if we had an elite QB. Seems like almost every team has one now except us.

 

Flaming Thumbtacks? Jets? Ridders? Jax? Browns? Jury still out on Tampa, Miami, and Rams IMO and Chicago may have one but their fans aren't sure.

[Hplarrm]

My sense is that any tru Bills fan has got to be happy with the performance Orton has put up as a needed plan B for EJ after he played well in the first two games and sucked in the last 2. However. it would be pretty foolish for the Bills to simply assume EJ is done for us as a starter this year.

 

Orton is simply a .500 QB in his career with some pretty sound teams. He can be hurt and it would be foolish not to teach EJ to always be prepared to come in. Orton is our plan A and we need to ride him to competing for the playoffs this year. EJ is quite unlikely to QB us to that goal. Orton is also unlikely to lead us to this goal but he has a markedly better shot than EJ this year.

 

EJ is and always has bee a PROJECT.

 

He was the best bet for taking a QB in the 1st (as we had to do because of our sad addiction to finding a franchise QB) and the most reasonable alternative was Geno (As frustrating as EJis, having Geno would be worse.

 

I like EJ as a plan to Orton and I hope someone is able to devote a little time to this because though Orton is clearly the choice or us as #1 QB, it seems unlikely he will survive the season behind our inexperienced OL ad now counting on Bryce and Booby for blitz pick-up.

[Alphadawg7]

You just answered your own question. Saying that Orton has played bad enough for the Bills to be 0-3 is the most ludicrous thing I've ever read on this board and that's saying something.

 

You say you want to "talk football" but and in the same breath you say " He's also came through when we got a break late at end of games to steal 2 wins ". Is that "talking football or spinning the hell out what actually has happened? His second half numbers stack up against anybody's in the NFL and you're "logic" is that "we got a break"? So if a QB has near perfect RZ, 3rd down and second half play he's "getting a break". Got it.

 

So here's the answer to your own question, the reason why people are labeled "EJ lovers" is because they try to degrade the very obvious good play of Orton when the stats, splits, and results clearly paint a much different picture.

 

 

 

Hmmmm...we lost the Detroit game, they just couldn't figure out how to kick a FG...FACT. Already, he's played bad enough to be 1-2. Yesterday, the turnovers were terrible, the offense couldn't move the ball, and it took a last second effort to beat a very bad team in OUR stadium with a rookie QB making his first road start. Orton and the offense did everything they could to lose that game but the DEFENSE dominated the Vikes and kept the game close. So, he did play bad enough to be 0-3. We got lucky in one game, and got lucky yesterday that we weren't playing a good team or yesterday we would have lost bad with that offensive effort. There is a reason the Bills have not won a game in 17 years with 4 turnovers until yesterday, because its VERY HARD TO WIN with 4 offensive turnovers. And Orton was responsible for half those turnovers and several bad sacks.

 

So facts remain, he's played bad enough to be 0-3...and he also came through when the opportunity was there on the last drive of 2 games to steal 2 wins, which is great and hope its something he can build on. But if we need continue to be inept on offense for most the game and really on last second scores to win, then we won't win many more games.

 

AGAIN, thats my opinion but it does NOT make me a Hater. I hope to god he leads us to the playoff. You can hear me screaming "Lets go Orton", Great Pass Orton" every time he gets something going 3 houses down the beach (I know my neighbors laugh about it). I want nothing more than for him to win...but being a REALIST about the performance does not mean I hate him.

 

In your opinion, how many games did EJ "steal" this year? If the answer is 0, you're biased. SEE YA.

 

Geezus...again furthering my point. More people just want to prove this is about EJ vs Orton. You are the only fools fighting that battle. I just want us to win. But keep up the good work FireChan.

[Kelly the Dog]

Orton has an ability that heretofore only film editors and replay machines had, to instantly turn live action into slow motion. As a veteran he also needs to make some better decisions about getting rid of the ball when there is no play to be made.

 

That said, his sacks as a result aren't as killing as previous Bills QBs since Drew Bledsoe, because he has the arm, savvy, willingness and ability to throw 15-25 yard strikes. A third and 15 because of a sack was almost insurmountable the last 15 years. But Orton can pick them up often enough that his sacks aren't the killers that they could be.

 

I was very mad at him for the fumble, which was just plain careless or stupid. His INT I can live with. Just a bad pass that even the best Qbs make a few times a game. He took too many sacks. Trying to get away from would be tacklers by scrambling hasn't worked in 13 tries and counting. But he can really wing it. And he is unflappable. Those are qualities we haven't seen in far too long.

 

If Hackett and Marrone weren't so stupid and stubborn we would be seeing even more.

 

[C-Man]

I am a Bills' fan, but man do a lot of Bills' fans suck! Nothing is good enough even with the outcome is positive.

 

I saw a post yesterday that we should all heed - it is near the end of October, the Bills have a winning record or will be .500. Take it easy and see how things go. Enjoy it. I can't believe how people will rag on a win so much.

 

Orton is better than EJ. I don't know what EJ needs to do to get himself back on the field. I like what Orton is doing...winning. He had not started in awhile, so I will give him a few more games to get dialed in.

[John Cocktosten]

BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN I CANT CRITICIZE THE SUB PAR PLAY by him or anyone on this team. And right now, this offense is NOT playing well enough to win consistently. That includes EJs last 2 games, the OL, Hackett, and receivers dropping passes too.

 

Ya know how I know you're an "EJ lover"? You said, "EJ's last two games".

 

Joking aside, you keep saying Orton basically sucks but you seem to ignore the facts.

[Alphadawg7]

Criticizing is one thing, living in an imaginary world where we're 0-3 under Orton is another. If you can't see just how warped your entire post was, then there's nothing more to say. Again, carry on.

 

So you think the offense played well against Detroit and Minnesota? If so, then you have forgotten what an efficient or good offense looks like. Good luck with that.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I agree.

 

Our O-line also needs to improve pass protecting. We need both. Yesterday's fumble i 100% blame Orton. The strip sack from the blind side is 50/50 man. 9 times out of 10 a QB loses that ball on a strip sack like that. Glenn got beat bad. I guess Orton could've gotten rid of it sooner..

 

Our O-line sucks big time right now, no argument there. Both for run and for pass protection.

 

I guess my point on the strip sack is the really great QB/vet QB who are playing great have that "pocket awareness" that lets them sense when the protection has broken and move to extend the play or at least to give them time to get rid of the ball. And personally that's what I see as missing from Orton so far. Not saying he's playing bad, just saying that's my missing piece I'd like to see before I'd say he's playing "great".

[clearwater cadet]

i like orton, but i wish they would protect him better.

[bobobonators]

Hmmmm...we lost the Detroit game, they just couldn't figure out how to kick a FG...FACT. Already, he's played bad enough to be 1-2. Yesterday, the turnovers were terrible, the offense couldn't move the ball, and it took a last second effort to beat a very bad team in OUR stadium with a rookie QB making his first road start. Orton and the offense did everything they could to lose that game but the DEFENSE dominated the Vikes and kept the game close. So, he did play bad enough to be 0-3. We got lucky in one game, and got lucky yesterday that we weren't playing a good team or yesterday we would have lost bad with that offensive effort. There is a reason the Bills have not won a game in 17 years with 4 turnovers until yesterday, because its VERY HARD TO WIN with 4 offensive turnovers. And Orton was responsible for half those turnovers and several bad sacks.

 

So facts remain, he's played bad enough to be 0-3...and he also came through when the opportunity was there on the last drive of 2 games to steal 2 wins, which is great and hope its something he can build on. But if we need continue to be inept on offense for most the game and really on last second scores to win, then we won't win many more games.

 

AGAIN, thats my opinion but it does NOT make me a Hater. I hope to god he leads us to the playoff. You can hear me screaming "Lets go Orton", Great Pass Orton" every time he gets something going 3 houses down the beach (I know my neighbors laugh about it). I want nothing more than for him to win...but being a REALIST about the performance does not mean I hate him.

 

 

 

Geezus...again furthering my point. More people just want to prove this is about EJ vs Orton. You are the only fools fighting that battle. I just want us to win. But keep up the good work FireChan.

 

LMFAO

 

"facts". Not he played well enough for us to be 2-1. No, he played bad enough for us to be 0-3. LMFAO. Your entire post continues to be about "stealing"/ how "bad" the opponents have been / how "bad" Orton has been.

 

Tell me, how do you feel after a loss? I would not want to be around you.

 

To sum up your mindset: We were 2-2 under EJ but we were really 4-0 and we're now 0-3 with Orton. got it.

 

[Alphadawg7]

Ya know how I know you're an "EJ lover"? You said, "EJ's last two games".

 

Joking aside, you keep saying Orton basically sucks but you seem to ignore the facts.

 

No, I said the last 2 games where the offense was good was weeks 1 and 2. I said EJ sucked in games 3 and 4, and so did the offense. I also said that since week 2, the OL hasn't gotten worse and worse. I also said WR's keep dropping balls they must catch. I also said Hackett is terrible.

 

But you guys want to focus on EJ vs Orton, thats why it keeps coming up. If anyone thinks the offense is playing at a high enough level then I don't know what to tell you. The offense has been bad 5 straight weeks...its also why we are one of the lowest rated offenses in the NFL. But I guess stats, facts, and numbers are all wrong, not to mention the eye ball test.

 

The offense needs to improve or we won't make the playoffs...thats a fact. And I hope to god it does, and I don't care it its Tuel, EJ, Orton, Namath, Kelly, Riech, or your mother out there playing QB.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I really miss Chewbacca right about now.