Kyle Orton Haters

[DaBills51]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR, and I'm curious as to where all of the hate is coming from. Over the past three weeks, Orton has averaged 297 yards, 1.66 TDs, and 1 INT per game. If you extrapolate his numbers over an entire 16 game season, he would finish with 4,750 yards, 27 TDs and 16 INT.

 

So, with that being said, I don't get how anyone can say that he's even been average. Honestly, Orton has performed like a borderline top 10 QB over the past 3 weeks, and he's done this while being with the team for less than 2 months.

 

Over the past three weeks, Orton has put up those numbers with terrible o-line play, and no running game to speak of. And then to top it off, he's done all of this against three top 10 pass defenses (based on YPG, 2 top 10 defenses if you go by passer rating against). Also, in regard to his turnovers, he's on pace for 16 INTs. Romo, Luck, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Rivers and Brees have all had 18+ INT seasons. So, does that mean that they're all average QBs?

 

Oh, and not to mention, the Bills are 2-1 under Orton, and in both games he played some of his best football when it mattered the most to lead the Bills to wins. So, lets hear it, why should I be underwhelmed with Orton's performances over the past three weeks?

Edited October 20, 2014 by DaBills51

[NextYearGuys]

I'm loving the way Orton is playing. He's efficient and that's all a QB really needs to be.

[FireChan]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR, and I'm curious as to where all of the hate is coming from. Over the past three weeks, Orton has averaged 297 yards, 1.66 TDs, and 1 INT per game. If you extrapolate his numbers over an entire 16 game season, he would finish with 4,750 yards, 27 TDs and 16 INT.

 

So, with that being said, I don't get how anyone can say that he's even been average. Honestly, Orton has performed like a borderline top 10 QB over the past 3 weeks, and he's done this while being with the team for less than 2 months.

 

Over the past three weeks, Orton has put up those numbers with terrible o-line play, and no running game to speak of. And then to top it off, he's done all of this against three top 10 pass defenses (based on YPG, 2 top 10 defenses if you go by passer rating against). Also, in regard to his turnovers, he's on pace for 16 INTs. Romo, Luck, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Rivers and Brees have all had 18+ INT seasons. So, does that mean that they're all average QBs?

 

Oh, and not to mention, the Bills are 2-1 under Orton, and in both games he played some of his best football when it mattered the most to lead the Bills to wins. So, lets hear it, why should I be underwhelmed with Orton's performances over the past three weeks?

 

 

Because EJ.....or something.

Edited October 20, 2014 by FireChan

[What a Tuel]

I agree that the line is a huge part of why both our passing game, and running game aren't doing as well as they should be.

 

I can't speak for everyone else, but I criticize Orton because these excuses weren't good enough for our fresh QB Manuel, so why are they good enough for our veteran backup?

 

I'm all for sitting Manuel until he is ready, but let's not pretend Orton is some undiscovered QB, and we found a diamond in the rough. We have been down that road before on several occasions.

Edited October 20, 2014 by What a Tuel

[FireChan]

I agree that the line is a huge part of why both our passing game, and running game aren't doing as well as they should be.

 

I can't speak for everyone else, but I criticize Orton because these excuses weren't good enough for our fresh QB Manuel, so why are they good enough for our veteran backup?

 

I'm all for sitting Manuel until he is ready, but let's not pretend Orton is some undiscovered QB, and we found a diamond in the rough. We have been down that road before on several occasions.

 

EJ wasn't criticized much, if at all, when we were winning with him this season. Only when he played poorly in back-to-back losses, as well as giving away a lead and throwing away the Houston game all by himself. The comparison in criticism is completely faulty.

 

Our passing game has also been great since the switch. Not perfect, because of the O-line and a handful of Orton mistakes, but we have the best passing offense right now since Kelly.

Edited October 20, 2014 by FireChan

[John from Riverside]

I really would like to see how Orton plays with a consistant clean pocket

[Tampa Bob]

I think Orton has been pretty good. I like the way he plays in crunch time. He seems to be pretty comfortable in that role and he seems to have some fire in him when he gets in that spot. I would like to see more of that early in the games, but there isn'the much to complain about with him. A few picks and maybe some bad sacks, but he has done at least as well as anyone could have expected from him.

 

Good point on only being in the offense for 2 months...not to mention only actually playing for 3 weeks. I would think that he could improve with more chemistry. The line could help him out a bit too.

[johnwalter]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR, and I'm curious as to where all of the hate is coming from. Over the past three weeks, Orton has averaged 297 yards, 1.66 TDs, and 1 INT per game. If you extrapolate his numbers over an entire 16 game season, he would finish with 4,750 yards, 27 TDs and 16 INT.

 

So, with that being said, I don't get how anyone can say that he's even been average. Honestly, Orton has performed like a borderline top 10 QB over the past 3 weeks, and he's done this while being with the team for less than 2 months.

 

Over the past three weeks, Orton has put up those numbers with terrible o-line play, and no running game to speak of. And then to top it off, he's done all of this against three top 10 pass defenses (based on YPG, 2 top 10 defenses if you go by passer rating against). Also, in regard to his turnovers, he's on pace for 16 INTs. Romo, Luck, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Rivers and Brees have all had 18+ INT seasons. So, does that mean that they're all average QBs?

 

Oh, and not to mention, the Bills are 2-1 under Orton, and in both games he played some of his best football when it mattered the most to lead the Bills to wins. So, lets hear it, why should I be underwhelmed with Orton's performances over the past three weeks?

 

yes - i agree that he's been adequate and maybe that's all he needs to be. one thing to remember though is that all turnovers count - fumbles included, and orton has fumbled two times in three games. id pay more attention to the td : (int+fum) ratio, than standard td : int.

[Jim in Anchorage]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR, and I'm curious as to where all of the hate is coming from. Over the past three weeks, Orton has averaged 297 yards, 1.66 TDs, and 1 INT per game. If you extrapolate his numbers over an entire 16 game season, he would finish with 4,750 yards, 27 TDs and 16 INT.

 

So, with that being said, I don't get how anyone can say that he's even been average. Honestly, Orton has performed like a borderline top 10 QB over the past 3 weeks, and he's done this while being with the team for less than 2 months.

 

Over the past three weeks, Orton has put up those numbers with terrible o-line play, and no running game to speak of. And then to top it off, he's done all of this against three top 10 pass defenses (based on YPG, 2 top 10 defenses if you go by passer rating against). Also, in regard to his turnovers, he's on pace for 16 INTs. Romo, Luck, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Rivers and Brees have all had 18+ INT seasons. So, does that mean that they're all average QBs?

 

Oh, and not to mention, the Bills are 2-1 under Orton, and in both games he played some of his best football when it mattered the most to lead the Bills to wins. So, lets hear it, why should I be underwhelmed with Orton's performances over the past three weeks?

Because some posters on here are bigger EJ fans then Bills fans. Ignore them. Just enjoy the win

[BuffOrange]

I can't speak for everyone else, but I criticize Orton because these excuses weren't good enough for our fresh QB Manuel, so why are they good enough for our veteran backup?

 

Because the fresh QBs ceiling for a game appears to be the veteran backup's floor - ~250 yards. That's kind of a big difference.

[Dragonborn10]

The OP conveniently forgot the 13 sacks and two lost fumbles. If Sammy doesn't make an amazing catch on a horribly thrown ball they are 1-2 with Orton.

I think EJ gives them a better chance to win against the Jets with this dumpster fire of an offensive line.

If the line plays better and gives Orton time to throw, I agree he probably gives the Bills a better chance to win consistently this year.

But to say the QB play is much better with Orton is simply not true. Accuracy much better. Completion percentage better. YPA a little better. Sacks much worse. Turnovers worse.

 

[FireChan]

The OP conveniently forgot the 13 sacks and two lost fumbles. If Sammy doesn't make an amazing catch on a horribly thrown ball they are 1-2 with Orton.

I think EJ gives them a better chance to win against the Jets with this dumpster fire of an offensive line.

If the line plays better and gives Orton time to throw, I agree he probably gives the Bills a better chance to win consistently this year.

But to say the QB play is much better with Orton is simply not true. Accuracy much better. Completion percentage better. YPA a little better. Sacks much worse. Turnovers worse.

 

I think your missing a couple more improvements in that list. Much more WR involvement. Much more WR production. Much more Red Zone production. Adjustments at the line. Quicker release. More 20+ yard plays. More game-winning drives. A few extra sacks doesn't negate that.

 

YPA a little better? Since when is an increase from 6.4 to 7.2 "a little?"

Edited October 20, 2014 by FireChan

[Big Blitz]

Because in Buffalo no one is ever happy.

 

A vocal minority once thought Reich should start over Kelly.

 

Scouts like Jerry Sullivan and Mike Schoop openly advocated for keeping Rob Johnson over Doug Flutie...the media pretty much ran him out of town because apparently winning wasn't enough---we needed a guy that looked like an elite QB.

 

 

And that's the problem right now with a lot of media/fans. This constant desire for 'elite,' but rest assured when 'elite' is here it still won't be good enough.

[BuffOrange]

 

I think your missing a couple more improvements in that list. Much more WR involvement. Much more WR production. Much more Red Zone production. Adjustments at the line. Quicker release. More 20+ yard plays. More game-winning drives. A few extra sacks doesn't negate that.

Also not for nothing, sacks are big plays because they kill drives. But there aren't any drives when EJ is launching sideline fades seven yards out of bounds so, at least from an opportunity cost standpoint, the sacks aren't a killer negative.

[FireChan]

Also not for nothing, sacks are big plays because they kill drives. But there aren't any drives when EJ is launching sideline fades seven yards out of bounds so, at least from an opportunity cost standpoint, the sacks aren't a killer negative.

 

Right. It's a trade off, like anything else. EJ avoids sacks by dumping off for a minimal gain, or for 5 yards on 3rd and 7. Orton has a tendency to wait a little longer in the pocket, leading to more sacks but also to more completions to WR's down field. Orton ain't perfect, but he's better.

Edited October 20, 2014 by FireChan

[What a Tuel]

Because the fresh QBs ceiling for a game appears to be the veteran backup's floor - ~250 yards. That's kind of a big difference.

 

Fresh QB that obviously needs development. We all knew that going in, but 250 yards isn't his ceiling. Unless you are in the camp that believes QB's are who they are and can't improve/develop.

 

Kyle Orton's Rookie Season he had one 200 yard game (the rest less than 200), 9 tds and 13 ints

EJ Manuel's first 14 games he had six 200 yard games (the rest less than 200), 16 tds and 12 ints

Edited October 20, 2014 by What a Tuel

[John from Riverside]

The OP conveniently forgot the 13 sacks and two lost fumbles. If Sammy doesn't make an amazing catch on a horribly thrown ball they are 1-2 with Orton.

I think EJ gives them a better chance to win against the Jets with this dumpster fire of an offensive line.

If the line plays better and gives Orton time to throw, I agree he probably gives the Bills a better chance to win consistently this year.

But to say the QB play is much better with Orton is simply not true. Accuracy much better. Completion percentage better. YPA a little better. Sacks much worse. Turnovers worse.

 

You are absolutely mental....in no universe does EJ give them a better chance of winning right now.....give it up.

[JC2002]

Orton played simply okay today but he did for the 3rd game straight raise his level of play in the 4th which is always good to see .

 

But lets get one thing straight to most of the NFL the Bills did not have a passing game until 3 games ago so anyone talking about the how the QB play has not improved is just living in some alternate reality. What EJ was doing 4 games ago as fine for college but nobody in the nfl regards that as NFL caliber QB play . That's no knock on EJ but thats just the facts .

 

I expect a ton of improvement from Orton post bye as well as some line changes . Right now they are not having real practice but instead are installing game plan every week. During the bye time they will be able to actually practice and work on situational football that has nothing to do with an opponent.I cant imagine how hard it must be to go from a run heavy scheme to a pass heavy scheme in the middle of a season with a QB and coaches who are unfamiliar with each other and the system.

 

Fresh QB that obviously needs development. We all knew that going in, but 250 yards isn't his ceiling. Unless you are in the camp that believes QB's are who they are and can't improve/develop.

 

Kyle Orton's Rookie Season he had one 200 yard game (the rest less than 200), 9 tds and 13 ints

EJ Manuel's first 14 games he had six 200 yard games (the rest less than 200), 16 tds and 12 ints

 

Orton wasn't on a passing club or one which catered to his offensive abilities . You are comparing qbs drafted in two different ERA'S

[thewildrabbit]

You are absolutely mental....in no universe does EJ give them a better chance of winning right now.....give it up.

Yea I agree. As much as some of the bad we have seen from Orton, I think it would be 10x as bad with EJ for the simple reason he doesn't have the experience needed to read the defense and change the play at the line. Then make the play happen despite the crap called play.

 

Its a good thing EJ is benched, and Orton is better at running this team, and for the entire teams sake. My only problem is he is making the play calling somewhat palatable because of his experience, so the offensive coaching looks better then what it is.

 

This is a bad team right now, with lousy coaching, a really bad O line with three rookies. A DC that doesn't want to blitz very often, and still gets burned by rookie scrub QB's.

 

Orton led the team back from behind to win in two games. So, the Bills can beat bad teams at home. I gotta wonder what they will look like on the road at the Jets. Its gonna be all on Orton because I doubt the coaching staff sets up the winning game plan.

[BuffOrange]

 

Fresh QB that obviously needs development. We all knew that going in, but 250 yards isn't his ceiling. Unless you are in the camp that believes QB's are who they are and can't improve/develop.

 

Kyle Orton's Rookie Season he had one 200 yard game (the rest less than 200), 9 tds and 13 ints

EJ Manuel's first 14 games he had six 200 yard games (the rest less than 200), 16 tds and 12 ints

That's great. You can look at JPs 2006 11th rated passer season and find reasons to believe in what you're hoping for. He was a project we reached on and it was a surprise to nobody outside 1&2 Bills drive that he never amounted to even a quality backup. And like JC said, different offense & different era.

But never mind career trajectories..

My point was, when you say "why are these excuses granted for X but not for Y", the implication is that their levels of play are equal, which clearly it's not now.

Edited October 20, 2014 by BuffOrange