NoSaint Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 I don't see how the fact that the line stinks isn't the main factor in anyones mind as to the problems with this offense. Get a good line and then judge the rest. Now you could make the argument that our play calling doesn't gel with our lines skills, but I doubt that right now. They really blow. To some of your points. I don't care who are #1 target is on a game by game basis, it's who is open, but I do think we are better served getting the ball to Watkins/ Woods. We don't run the read option anymore - not with Orton Spiller, sorry you can't just place him ' in space' he needs blocking just like any other back - he doesn't know how to follow any blocks - if there is a small hole that Jackson can hit, why can't Spiller? I wouldn't mind seeing Bryce Brown given a shot - who do you sit or take carries away from? Or do we run more and pass less to Watkins/ Woods.... I think the desire of this teams offensive philosophy would be a running ball control team, low risk, low turnover type offense , but you need a good o-line , we have a horrible one. Why do you in two drafts spend two firsts a second a third a sixth and a big contract on receivers if you want to run a low risk ball control rushing offense? Have you noticed beyond the rookies that Glenn and wood each look worse, and we have a guy that's consistently graded as an above average starting guard on the bench so he can back up our center? That the worst guard in the league needs to keep his job to be an on field coach? Our head coach is a former lineman. It's his area of expertise, has gotten resources and gotten worse.
klos63 Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 This is the disconnect I'm having with your posts. Marrone's background should assure the team has at least a competent offensive line. One would assume the man knows how to assess talent at those positions considering his experience. One also has to assume that over the past two years during which Marrone has had time to address the line, he would have improved it. And yet this is the line he has put out on the field: A budding star at LT (who's being hung out to dry by sub par play to his right) An injury prone, terrible FA signing at RG, backed up by a 5th round rookie (whom I actually think has a future but isn't ready yet) Most underrated C in the game (ditto with the hung out to dry comment) A below average, over the hill RT who you ask to convert to RG A rookie RT who has been streaky at best That's on Marrone at least a little bit, is it not? Sure, I'm not giving Marrone a pass, but I think the fact that he was a former lineman/line coach it too simplistic a reason to think we should have a good o-line. Every team has a line coach that devotes 100% of their time to that position, most are probably former lineman at some level. Doesn't guarantee anything.You seem to agree with me that our line stinks - I don't know how anyone couldn't, I disagree on Wood, hasn't shown me much, you can say he has no help, or maybe he doesn't help much - he is the most important member of the line. I think our line stinks, I think some of the players will improve, I think some won't. I do believe a better staff would get more production from them, but not sure it would be a significant improvement. Our offense is in disarray , lot's of blame to go around.
Manther Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 You realize the Marrone refers to himself as St. Doug, because he said it will take a miracle to turn the Bills into a playoff team. I can't speak for the other poster, but among other things, it seems as though CJ Spiller is misused, Sammy Watkins appears to be misused. Mike Williams seems to be not used, which is a version of misused. The flip side of misuing Spiller, is not using Dixon of jackson on the interior runs. Playing a tacke at guard (pears) who seems much worse than a guard (urbik) who is on the roster is wierd too. That is just some of the things that appear at odds with logic. Well said and agree. Stuborness AND failure is when HCs get fired. I do believe this is Marrone's last NFL HC job. He is an epic fail. Ask the analytics department.
klos63 Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Why do you in two drafts spend two firsts a second a third a sixth and a big contract on receivers if you want to run a low risk ball control rushing offense? Have you noticed beyond the rookies that Glenn and wood each look worse, and we have a guy that's consistently graded as an above average starting guard on the bench so he can back up our center? That the worst guard in the league needs to keep his job to be an on field coach? Our head coach is a former lineman. It's his area of expertise, has gotten resources and gotten worse. Because our WR were crappy a couple years ago, like most of our team has been. Having talented WR doesn't mean you can't have a ball control type offense. It doesn't mean you run the ball every play in every situation, but I think our main focus would be on being able to run the ball at any point of the game, with big play ability at WR. Remember, until a dome is built this team has to deal with ****ty weather for a few home games and running the ball is essential.
GG Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Sure, I'm not giving Marrone a pass, but I think the fact that he was a former lineman/line coach it too simplistic a reason to think we should have a good o-line. Every team has a line coach that devotes 100% of their time to that position, most are probably former lineman at some level. Doesn't guarantee anything. You seem to agree with me that our line stinks - I don't know how anyone couldn't, I disagree on Wood, hasn't shown me much, you can say he has no help, or maybe he doesn't help much - he is the most important member of the line. I think our line stinks, I think some of the players will improve, I think some won't. I do believe a better staff would get more production from them, but not sure it would be a significant improvement. Our offense is in disarray , lot's of blame to go around. What does that say about the front office and the coaching staff when they invested so many resources to improve the OL that Chan Gailey's left?
Manther Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Spiller is not a good RB in my opinion, so using him at all might be considered misuse. Watkins, throw to him more, yeah, ok, but then don't ask for Williams to get used much more, but I think with Orton, more than Manuel, you will see more passing overall. I don't get the criticism of interior runs vs 'exterior' runs - but Dixon and Jackson do often run between the tackles, they also run outside occasionally. Those are the only 2 choices for running the ball. It comes down to blocking. Pears stinks, my guess is Urbik is worse... do you have a better explanation? He went thru 20% of the lineup.....really? If you think you are right why don't you explain how he is using the roster correctly. By maximizing STs and signing snd dressing extra STs because Crossman has been in the bottom 10 in the League for the last decade!
Rob's House Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 I think his alternative is that Marrone has a lack of offensive vision which leads to poor scheming and a lack of talent development. Either that or your more simple idea that or everyone else in the offense and in the front office has disappointed. You just turned me with two sentences. Respek.
mrags Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 If you have never seen koundjo play, you are in for a treat. Just picture eric pears at guard, only weaker, slower, and more confused. I seriously lol'd over this. Woke my wife up and everything.
Manther Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Really? So the quality of the roster doesn't matter? Listen, I'm not sold on Marrone either, but I can't ignore 4 weak points on the line. Just watch the games, the line kills us. I think it's that simple. Then he should play Urbik that ranked in the top 3rd for Guards each of the last 3 years which is a large sample size. Instead of acting like a child because he doesn't like him or is trying to prove something to Whaley. Because our WR were crappy a couple years ago, like most of our team has been. Having talented WR doesn't mean you can't have a ball control type offense. It doesn't mean you run the ball every play in every situation, but I think our main focus would be on being able to run the ball at any point of the game, with big play ability at WR. Remember, until a dome is built this team has to deal with ****ty weather for a few home games and running the ball is essential. We play one or two home games a year in bad weather. Cop out.
klos63 Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 He went thru 20% of the lineup.....really? If you think you are right why don't you explain how he is using the roster correctly. By maximizing STs and signing snd dressing extra STs because Crossman has been in the bottom 10 in the League for the last decade! no idea what you are referring to with the 20%.... How is he using the roster correctly? are you referring to the whole roster or just the offense. I think the defense are special teams are being used exceptionally well, both are playoff caliber units. Crossmans unit is playing quite well now, that should be all that matters, unless you just want to rag on him for whatever reason. I don't agree with the rotating RB, I think we need a number 1 guy to establish some continuity. I think we have 3 distinct type runners with a young, inexperience or unskilled in some areas, offensive line and that makes it more difficult for the lineman. If you have been paying attention, I'm saying very little that is remotely positive about the offense, it's just that my opinion is that the line is the main factor for our failures , not the only. Then he should play Urbik that ranked in the top 3rd for Guards each of the last 3 years which is a large sample size. Instead of acting like a child because he doesn't like him or is trying to prove something to Whaley. We play one or two home games a year in bad weather. Cop out. Cop out???? remember the 90's , we were a top rushing team for years. It's pretty damn important.
GG Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 no idea what you are referring to with the 20%.... How is he using the roster correctly? are you referring to the whole roster or just the offense. I think the defense are special teams are being used exceptionally well, both are playoff caliber units. Crossmans unit is playing quite well now, that should be all that matters, unless you just want to rag on him for whatever reason. I don't agree with the rotating RB, I think we need a number 1 guy to establish some continuity. I think we have 3 distinct type runners with a young, inexperience or unskilled in some areas, offensive line and that makes it more difficult for the lineman. If you have been paying attention, I'm saying very little that is remotely positive about the offense, it's just that my opinion is that the line is the main factor for our failures , not the only. Funny, but isn't 4/5th of the line that played pretty well under Gailey, still on the roster? What happened?
bowery4 Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 It's easy... According to our genius HC you don't want to risk your back-up center no matter how bad your OG's look, or how good an OG he may be... Which makes the real question, why can't CU play guard and BE back up center (just slide him over if Wood get hurt), if he gets hurt playing guard is the only real issue but he doesn't have an injury history so...... what's the deal (also couldn't we get a guard or center FA to put on the practice squad, or do we have one already)? If he thinks our guards are improving, he really hasn't a clue. So I guess that answers that. Doomed (btw maybe by this time in this thread someone already mentioned this, sorry I didn't get a chance to read it all).
klos63 Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Funny, but isn't 4/5th of the line that played pretty well under Gailey, still on the roster? What happened? Gailey is a very good offensive coordinator. That helps your line a lot. But if you listen to a lot of people on here, having a former lineman as coach should make the line better, obviously they are wrong, probably wrong on a lot of other points too. If you want to criticize Marrone for making Hackett OC, I'll agree with you there.
Pete Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Gabe Jackson has been playing excellent at guard. Too bad we chose Cujo over him. Hopefully Cujo pans out. But he seems like he can't play with any bend in his knees and is technically unsound, not to mention he is slow as molasses
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Funny, but isn't 4/5th of the line that played pretty well under Gailey, still on the roster? What happened? No, Well they are not playing. It was Glenn Levitre Wood Urbik (whoever was heathy), the plan was for Hairston here but he was injured. They decided to let Levitre and his backup Rinehart(who is starting for the Chargers) walk, I would think these were Marrones calls. Make no mistake this is Hubris on Marrone's part. He wanted BIG guys to dictate the the game and Gailey's were lighter and more agile. I squarely place the O-line problems on Marrone his handling of Urbik reinforces it. If you went back to Gailey's line you would only be looking for a replacement for the Levitre spot but instead they are trying every rookie they can on that line. Here is what it should be if you were using Gailey's players Glenn <New Player> Wood Urbik Hairston Seems like that is the best way to try and fix the line reboot and leave your ego out of it. Also if back up center is a roster stop of such great importance they should get a dedicated center on the PS and get Urbik on the line. Edited October 17, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso
Deranged Rhino Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Sure, I'm not giving Marrone a pass, but I think the fact that he was a former lineman/line coach it too simplistic a reason to think we should have a good o-line. Every team has a line coach that devotes 100% of their time to that position, most are probably former lineman at some level. Doesn't guarantee anything. Gailey is a very good offensive coordinator. That helps your line a lot. But if you listen to a lot of people on here, having a former lineman as coach should make the line better, obviously they are wrong, probably wrong on a lot of other points too. My comment on Marrone's background was in response to your claim that Marrone has no input on how the roster was built. You say the line sucks and that has nothing to do with Marrone -- which is absurd because Marrone picked the starters, and had every opportunity to improve or rebuild this line over the past two seasons that he's been the head coach. I never said former line experience automatically translates to a good product on the field. All I said was that you would hope your HC's niche would help the line rather than hurt it. Since Marrone has taken over, the line has not improved -- it's gotten worse. Either that's because of scheme (Marrone's fault), or personnel (also at least partially on Marrone), or a combination of the two. But if it makes you feel better to absolve St. Doug of his sins, by all means, keep your delusions. Just get my point right when you quote me.
thewildrabbit Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 well, i hate to say it but if they thought it possible i wish they wouldve given it a shot in camp for a few days - and if they didnt think it possible im not sure why they do now. this is one of those moves that again makes you wonder about the vision, roster management and player development skills. Shouldn't someone besides the fans have asked that after this FO brought in Colin Brown for replacing Levitre, and the signing of Doug Legursky. I think that the goober Buddy Nix sold the rest of the FO a bill of goods that you can find good OG's in the later rounds, and OT's can easily be flipped inside to do a great job at OG. After all OG's are a dime a dozen according to some. I say this because he was the one spouting off that OT's can readily move inside if they don't work out at OT. Then you need to consider that Jauron drafted a center with a #1 pick, and an OG with a #2 pick. So this moronic philosophy came after Jauron. Good to know the team still has Nix employed as a consultant. Meanwhile Dallas & San Diego draft OG's with their first round picks, and their lines are now good enough to get them to the playoffs. The Buffalo Bills currently have three OG's on their roster that are the worst three in the NFL.
FireChan Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Shouldn't someone besides the fans have asked that after this FO brought in Colin Brown for replacing Levitre, and the signing of Doug Legursky. I think that the goober Buddy Nix sold the rest of the FO a bill of goods that you can find good OG's in the later rounds, and OT's can easily be flipped inside to do a great job at OG. After all OG's are a dime a dozen according to some. I say this because he was the one spouting off that OT's can readily move inside if they don't work out at OT. Then you need to consider that Jauron drafted a center with a #1 pick, and an OG with a #2 pick. So this moronic philosophy came after Jauron. Good to know the team still has Nix employed as a consultant. Meanwhile Dallas & San Diego draft OG's with their first round picks, and their lines are now good enough to get them to the playoffs. The Buffalo Bills currently have three OG's on their roster that are the worst three in the NFL. The wonderful Andy Levitre was drafted in the second.
Uncle Monkeyhead Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Fat guy in a little coat? Well played
ALF Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) If they insist keeping Pears next to Henderson to coach him the T position, move him to blocking TE . Pears may be too tall to get leverage at OG. Urbik back at RG, try all at LG , even Hairston. It doesn't look easy to switch from T to G unless you have good coaching. The Bills need jboyst62 to sort this out Edited October 17, 2014 by ALF
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