ExiledInIllinois Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 sure we could. a good samaritan law like that in effect for cpr would do the trick and would be totally appropriate imo. mandatory vaccination is a no go. but we could certainly have the more intelligent pop culture icons working to help change opinions. find some handsome, mcdreamy, real life doc's that aren't dr oz as spokespeople as well. I am not sure what to believe. In the late 1950's polio outbreak, did mandatory vaccination really spike new cases 700%? We are armed with so much information, if we ever have major outbreaks how will it be managed. Facts and the information change opinions. Again, everybody wants the herd to protect them... But nobody wants to take the risk for the herd. It's the modern mindset. Well off people can just ride away and isolate themselves from the herd... Like they did during The Plague.
DC Tom Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 sure we could. a good samaritan law like that in effect for cpr would do the trick and would be totally appropriate imo. Tried that in '76, indemnifying vaccine manufactures against liability for the flu vaccine. It failed miserably. Tried to reform the situation in '86 with the Vaccine Act, that failed miserably as well (the resulting "Vaccine Court' is pretty much a joke). The Supreme Court just heard a case three years ago that resulted in the Vaccine Court's decisions being reigned in slightly - vaccine manufactures can't be held liable for "manufacturing defects" any more. They can, however, still be held liable for any other side-effects of a vaccine.
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) We can't even handle measles the way we once handled measles. Measles was eliminated from the US 14 years ago. This year is seeing the worst epidemic of measles in the US since the mid-90s, by a wide margin. Are we falling below the herd immunity %'s? Too many parents opting out? I know you want mandatory... But how in the heck will that go over? Edited October 19, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois
birdog1960 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 a little retrospective vaccine history appropriate to the topic: http://www.npr.org/2014/10/28/359632703/jonas-salks-polio-vaccine-trials-would-be-hard-to-repeat-today
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 a little retrospective vaccine history appropriate to the topic: http://www.npr.org/2014/10/28/359632703/jonas-salks-polio-vaccine-trials-would-be-hard-to-repeat-today I was thinking this all along. I hinted earlier in the thread. People really thought more collectively years ago, especially the "Greatest Generation." I have been giving this lots of thougnt lately. How many parents would line their kid up today like they did to get polio shots. We have been "polio free" in this country since 1994. Othere countries that still have issues, they do get cases of polio from the vaccine. Do we know too much now? Are we "too informed." Gotta think collectively. Just give your little baby shots and pray that they aren't the one of 10,000 (or whatever the harm numbers are). It's worth the risk for them and all. But, when somebody gets zapped... Will the herd be there for them? Damn right they should be! I wonder how the harm was handled in Salk's day? There had to be people harmed. They probably didn't even know. Ignorance is bliss. Suck it up and take one for "the team." This doesn't mean I am not w/you Bird... I am fully behind what you on this. BTW... I know lots of people from this era (Boomers) and I only have met one person that had Polio. He had not too severe athropy in his right leg. I am not downplaying the numbers... The vaccine is a miracle. But in this day and age of Gov't=Bad, everybody thinking of their own self-interest... How would these trials play out on Main Street today? I understand wild polio was different, it could be everywhere. Who would want to even go swimming in a public pool? Then you look @ things like advance in sanitation, etc... Through the 20th century children were just living better and better, cleaner and cleaner and just not exposed to to it. Unintended consequences of an advancing society? YOU BET! The vaccine saved us all. There's a lot to think about know. Maybe stuff we really shouldn't be thinking about. Where do we line up our babies?
DC Tom Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I was thinking this all along. I hinted earlier in the thread. People really thought more collectively years ago, especially the "Greatest Generation." Not even that, so much as people had much, much more experience with these diseases back then, and had a very personal understanding of the benefits of vaccination. My parents lost three siblings (that I know of) to preventable childhood diseases when they were young; I'm sure my grandparents and my parents greatly appreciated the development of vaccinations. My generation...never really knew polio, pertussis, mumps, measles, etc., so our appreciation is more theoretical, hence more ambiguous. That's why Jenny McCarthy's campaign is so successful. Autism is a much more "real" threat to most parents these days than preventable childhood diseases.
boyst Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I got a call from a funny accented woman yesterday out of the blue asking if I was going be coming to get a flu shot. I listened and thought it was maybe some sort of scam but she said I could come down to the local store and get a shot, even named the location - off 311 at gum tree road. I amazed that there is enough money there to make it worth Rite Aid's time.
Dorkington Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I've been lazy about the flu shot over my life time. Been lucky in that I never get the flu, but I'm pretty sure I've given it to others... Getting it this year, after I've been educated by multiple folks the necessity in creating a safer environment for those with weakened immune systems.
birdog1960 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I was thinking this all along. I hinted earlier in the thread. People really thought more collectively years ago, especially the "Greatest Generation." I have been giving this lots of thougnt lately. How many parents would line their kid up today like they did to get polio shots. We have been "polio free" in this country since 1994. Othere countries that still have issues, they do get cases of polio from the vaccine. Do we know too much now? Are we "too informed." Gotta think collectively. Just give your little baby shots and pray that they aren't the one of 10,000 (or whatever the harm numbers are). It's worth the risk for them and all. But, when somebody gets zapped... Will the herd be there for them? Damn right they should be! I wonder how the harm was handled in Salk's day? There had to be people harmed. They probably didn't even know. Ignorance is bliss. Suck it up and take one for "the team." This doesn't mean I am not w/you Bird... I am fully behind what you on this. BTW... I know lots of people from this era (Boomers) and I only have met one person that had Polio. He had not too severe athropy in his right leg. I am not downplaying the numbers... The vaccine is a miracle. But in this day and age of Gov't=Bad, everybody thinking of their own self-interest... How would these trials play out on Main Street today? I understand wild polio was different, it could be everywhere. Who would want to even go swimming in a public pool? Then you look @ things like advance in sanitation, etc... Through the 20th century children were just living better and better, cleaner and cleaner and just not exposed to to it. Unintended consequences of an advancing society? YOU BET! The vaccine saved us all. There's a lot to think about know. Maybe stuff we really shouldn't be thinking about. Where do we line up our babies? misinformation is part of the problem here. we need reasonable estimates in order to formulate cost/benefit analyses. the estimated incidence of vaccine associated paralytic polio was about 1 in 24 million, not 10,000. http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccines/polio. and that was before live virus vaccine administration was stopped. therefore, it's unlikely that any of the kids in the initial trial were paralyzed from the vaccine (salk vaccine was not live). and the last case of paralytic polio in the us was in 1979. it's easier to think collectively if the actual extremely small risk of vaccination is known by the general population. unfortunately, the fear mongers have done a better job at spreading their message than the public heath folks. it always amazes me when people choose to believe the quack of the month on tv or the internet without ever looking at their credentials over almost any other source.
DC Tom Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 It always amazes me when people choose to believe the quack of the month on tv or the internet without ever looking at their credentials over almost any other source. I'll bet you're a real fan of Dr. Oz, then.
/dev/null Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I'm getting over the flu right now. Started Friday or Saturday, got really bad Sunday afternoon into Tuesday. I'm still a little under the weather with a nasty sore throat but I'm on the mend I hardly ever get sick and haven't been this sick in years.
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Not even that, so much as people had much, much more experience with these diseases back then, and had a very personal understanding of the benefits of vaccination. My parents lost three siblings (that I know of) to preventable childhood diseases when they were young; I'm sure my grandparents and my parents greatly appreciated the development of vaccinations. My generation...never really knew polio, pertussis, mumps, measles, etc., so our appreciation is more theoretical, hence more ambiguous. That's why Jenny McCarthy's campaign is so successful. Autism is a much more "real" threat to most parents these days than preventable childhood diseases. Great point! I didn't really look @ it that way. My aunt (father's older sister) had whooping cough.(pertusis). Heck my first boss here in Illinois was said to have had it (same generation)... Messed up his eyes badly (crossed) that he later had them corrected (to an extent). Side note: One of the old-timers had an old picture of him and basically black-mailed him that he would show others... LMAO! That's one way to score points with the boss (or maybe not!)... Guess what's making a little comeback, pertusis. I guess it is all about way the risks that people see as real and then weighing those risks. Do we really need sh*t to make a comeback before people get their head's out of the arses? I hope not. I'm getting over the flu right now. Started Friday or Saturday, got really bad Sunday afternoon into Tuesday. I'm still a little under the weather with a nasty sore throat but I'm on the mend I hardly ever get sick and haven't been this sick in years. Did you get the shot last Wednesday? ;-P I jest... Just kidding, hope you feel better. Like I said... I am just so scared to get the shot. I know my last RA flare-up was caused by the flu. Lasted well over a year. I am scared to inject anything flu related into my body. I would do anything, even risk getting it the wild again!
Garion Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 http://shotbyshot.org Is a good website for some perspective.
frostbitmic Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 The only time in the past 20 years I didn't get the flu shot was the only time in the past 20 years that I got the flu. Got my shot a couple weeks ago.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 4, 2014 Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) "The authors of the study admitted a bias going into the study," she continued. "Here was the history as described to me: Public health experts long assumed flu shots were effective in the elderly. But, paradoxically, all the studies done failed to demonstrate a benefit. Instead of considering that they, the experts, could be wrong–instead of believing the scientific data–the public health experts assumed the studies were wrong. After all, flu shots have to work, right?" As a result, the National Institutes of Health began a study they were sure would be the definitive answer, and would prove flu shots helped the elderly. But at the end, the data came to the same conclusion: "The death rate had increased markedly since widespread flu vaccination among older Americans," Attkisson wrote. Attkisson investigated on her own and discovered that many studies from all over the world come to the same conclusion, but are mostly ignored. Why? "Too much money being made promoting flu shots?" she asks. " http://www.newsmaxhe...kt_nbr=wwp47ymg Edited November 4, 2014 by Buffalo Barbarian
The Dean Posted November 4, 2014 Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) I'll bet you're a real fan of Dr. Oz, then. But Dr Oz said..... So, I shared my flu shot experience here, but I thought I'd add this little kicker. I saw my doctor again today and mentioned I got the flu several days after getting my shot. Now, keep in mind the shot was pretty much the default option ("You're getting a flu shot, right?") though I could have refused. Anyway, today my Dr. responds to my story of getting the post-shot flu. "That's why I never get one." Edited November 4, 2014 by The Dean
eball Posted November 4, 2014 Posted November 4, 2014 That's why Jenny McCarthy's campaign is so successful. Autism is a much more "real" threat to most parents these days than preventable childhood diseases. I can think of two reasons why her campaign is successful.
BUFFALOKIE Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 Just got back from Walgreens for both chitlen's vaccines. I had mine a few weeks ago at work.
BillsFanNC Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 "The authors of the study admitted a bias going into the study," she continued. "Here was the history as described to me: Public health experts long assumed flu shots were effective in the elderly. But, paradoxically, all the studies done failed to demonstrate a benefit. Instead of considering that they, the experts, could be wrong–instead of believing the scientific data–the public health experts assumed the studies were wrong. After all, flu shots have to work, right?" As a result, the National Institutes of Health began a study they were sure would be the definitive answer, and would prove flu shots helped the elderly. But at the end, the data came to the same conclusion: "The death rate had increased markedly since widespread flu vaccination among older Americans," Attkisson wrote. Attkisson investigated on her own and discovered that many studies from all over the world come to the same conclusion, but are mostly ignored. Why? "Too much money being made promoting flu shots?" she asks. " http://www.newsmaxhe...kt_nbr=wwp47ymg Again, if you want to research the influenza vaccine google is your enemy and pubmed is your friend.
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