dave mcbride Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) I have no problem at all with the EJ choice - you've gotta roll the dice with QBs. But you have to keep doing it. They should have drafted a qb this year, and they should draft one next year. When Holmgren was with GB, they drafted lots of QBs while Favre was there, and traded them away for solid draft pick packages (Brunell, Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, all of whom were picked before the final round). Brunell - drafted in the 4th round; later traded for a 3rd and a 5th Brooks - drafted in the 4th round; later traded for a 3rd rounder Hasselback: drafted in the 6th round; later traded, along with the Packer's first round pick (17th overall) and seventh-round draft picks, for the Seahawks first round pick (10th overall) and third-round draft picks And they drafted Aaron Rogers while Favre was still great. Other QB picks in those years: Craig Nall, Matt Flynn, Brian Brohm, and Ty Detmer That's how to manage QBs - stock them up. If you end up not needing them and they're decent, get more in draft picks than what you invested. Edited October 15, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Continuity is variable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesir Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 One of the ways you don’t in this league is since 1998 we’ve had seven head coaches, nine offensive coordinators, seven defensive coordinators and six general managers. That is not a formula for winning. Continuity is the number one variable when it comes to winning in this league and we need to have that as we move forward.” Isn't a quote like this extremely damning when you are the one responsible for hiring those seven head coaches, Nine OCs, seven DCs and six GMs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) The continuity angle is one that's been played up for years. It was used at the end of the 2008 season after DJ started 5-1, only to win 2 games the rest of the year. They held a pow-wow shortly after the season in Detroit featuring RW, Littman, Brandon, and Overdorf. The voted to ensure DJ remained (he had been re-signed in October 2008), Buffalo started 2009 3-6 and the HC was fired. Look at the HC's and GM's hired since Donahoe: Levy, Brandon, Nix, and Whaley. Or the HC's: Jauron and Gailey. Not one of them has a job in the NFL at their current level if it's not for the Buffalo Bills. The problem is Buffalo can't hired qualified people to lead, not that those people haven't had enough time. Edited October 15, 2014 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 When Brandon spewed that "save his own ass" barf, I wanted to jump through the radio. He's the first who needs to go; he hired his Syracuse/Fisher buddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Continuity is variable? And that variability is a constant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Man, I was so thinking that after he had installed his own people on the football side, he'd suggest that they blow it all up and start over from scratch. BTW, does he get to keep the CEO nameplate? Nope! #wastednameplate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I have no problem with leaving the GM in place and leaving him alone to do his job, free of interference from bean counters and marketing wizards. I DO have a problem with leaving in place the JV coaching staff hired by the marketing wizard. To summarize: let Whaley stay, but get rid of Brandon (or wall him off) and absolutely, positively, FOR FREAKIN' ONCE, get a real, NFL-caliber coaching staff in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) I mean the guy has a point. Everyone wants to burn whaley for missing on EJ but there are several GM's who have missed on their first "franchise QB" of choice. If you look at the overall picture, Whaley has done a fantastic job of building our roster depth, specifically at the DL, WR, LB and CB positions. Jerry Hughes, Keith Rivers, Kiko Alonso etc are all very solid things hes done in his short time as the guy in charge. Ozzie Newsome: Kyle Boller/Joe Flacco John Schneider: Charlie Whitehurst/Russel Wilson Howie Roseman: Michael Vick/ NIck Foles Rick Speilman: Christian Ponder/ Teddy Bridgewater Jeff Ireland: Chad Henne/Matt Moore/ Ryan Tannehill. Nix was still the GM for the 2013 draft; so I think he deserves the lion's share of credit for the Kiko and Woods picks, as well as the lion's share of blame for the Manuel bust. However, Whaley was among those who provided input on the Manuel selection. As GM, he chose to go "all in" on Manuel. He passed up the chance to draft Bridgewater and the chance to try to trade up for Bortles. He traded away the Bills' first round pick in next year's draft. Even though he wasn't the one who chose Manuel, he certainly acted convinced Manuel was the right choice! Which is why he shouldn't be the one to choose the Bills' next quarterback. > John Schneider: Charlie Whitehurst/Russel Wilson The Seahawks traded away a third round pick for Whitehurst. It's not like the Seahawks were foolish enough to go "all in" on him or anoint him as "the plan." > Howie Roseman: Michael Vick/ NIck Foles Michael Vick was a free agent signing. Signing a free agent stopgap does not indicate poor QB evaluation skills on the part of the front office. > Rick Speilman: Christian Ponder/ Teddy Bridgewater Christian Ponder was a swing and a miss. But at least they nicked the ball. By that I mean that Ponder represents a category of QB prospect which often finds success at the NFL level. At FSU, he ran a much more sophisticated offense than the one Manuel would later run; and he was also a more accurate passer than Manuel. Even though both QBs appear to be busts, Ponder was a much stronger NFL prospect than Manuel. > Jeff Ireland: Chad Henne/Matt Moore/ Ryan Tannehill. It's not like Tannehill is the next Joe Montana. He may not even be the next Matt Moore. Miami may be a good example of why you need to get rid of GMs who've shown they can't choose good QBs. Edited October 15, 2014 by Orton's Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Everyone wants to burn Whaley for missing on EJ Sorry up front for cherry-picking your post...But who is "everybody." I think most Bills understand the EJ pick was an organizational decision...Whaley had a part in it...But so did Buddy, Marrone, Hackett, even Russ...I don't think everybody is burning Whaley about the EJ pick...Maybe it's just me...But I think most Bills fans are more than willing to give Doug a pass on that one...Especially considering they netted Kiko in the trade down... Edited October 15, 2014 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Hired his brother as Bills attorney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Russ is pretty much speaking up for Whaley/Marrone in light of a possible review from an outside consultant as reported in the LaCanfora CBS article. Agree. Russ is safe regardless and is trying to vouch for the Dougs. But it likely won't cut ANY ice with the consultant. When Brandon spewed that "save his own ass" barf, I wanted to jump through the radio. He's the first who needs to go; he hired his Syracuse/Fisher buddies. Who's his Fisher buddy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I have no problem with leaving the GM in place and leaving him alone to do his job, free of interference from bean counters and marketing wizards. I DO have a problem with leaving in place the JV coaching staff hired by the marketing wizard. To summarize: let Whaley stay, but get rid of Brandon (or wall him off) and absolutely, positively, FOR FREAKIN' ONCE, get a real, NFL-caliber coaching staff in here. Who's to say that a competent HC wants to work for Whaley? Removing Brandon from the equation is only a partial solution. HC's are usually fired before the GM who hired them, so it stands to reason that they either start from scratch with a new GM and HC or they continue with the same personnel people and coaching staff. I don't think fans (not you CT) understand how closely linked personnel is to coaching. If there isn't absolute coordination between the two, chaos will reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Serious question: does continuity truly breed success, or is it more accurate to say that success results in continuity? Kind of a chicken and egg question there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Who's to say that a competent HC wants to work for Whaley? Removing Brandon from the equation is only a partial solution. HC's are usually fired before the GM who hired them, so it stands to reason that they either start from scratch with a new GM and HC or they continue with the same personnel people and coaching staff. I don't think fans (not you CT) understand how closely linked personnel is to coaching. If there isn't absolute coordination between the two, chaos will reign. Your last point is 100% accurate and it's a big reason for the current dysfunction (that, and our coaches' blatant inability to scheme and gameplan). As for Whaley, I think you'll find a lot of folks around the league willing to vouch for him to potential HC hires. My sense - which could be wrong - is that he has managed to escape much of the stain associated with the Old Guard at OBD and is viewed as a real rising star. Edited October 15, 2014 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 If it is so important why was it not so when Gailey was the HC. I am not suggesting we should have kept Gailey just that if one believed that for Jouron and now Marrone why not Gailey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 If it is so important why was it not so when Gailey was the HC. I am not suggesting we should have kept Gailey just that if one believed that for Jouron and now Marrone why not Gailey? Should have kept Jauron they probably would have hit the sky high goal of 8-8 by now.of course most fans would have tuned out or used the games as a great reason for a nap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Serious question: does continuity truly breed success, or is it more accurate to say that success results in continuity? Kind of a chicken and egg question there. I would say certainly kind of a sliding scale/gray area with Success => Continuity much more favored. Would the Gregg Williams' regime or Jauron-ball, or Marv as GM resulted in any success... or success as efficient if we had Accorsi/Coughlin in place? Then Coughlin's success has earned him some survival during lean years. Then you get teams that make changes like Harbough and Carroll and had relatively quick turnarounds. Would San Fran be this good if they had "continuity" with Mike Singletary? Anyways, I find these comments by Brandon very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Your last point is 100% accurate and it's a big reason for the current dysfunction (that, and our coaches' blatant inability to scheme and gameplan). As for Whaley, I think you'll find a lot of folks around the league willing to vouch for him to potential HC hires. My sense - which could be wrong - is that he has managed to escape much of the stain associated with the Old Guard at OBD and is viewed as a real rising star. Agreed. Perhaps with better ownership in place (including removal of people like Littmann and Overdorf) and Brandon shuffled off to business only responsibilities they'll be able to find better coaching candidates. Because unless Marrone, Hackett, Schwartz improve dramatically over the final 10 games, I think those guys are the first on the chopping block. Just once I'd like to see a front office and coaching staff on the same page with regard to personnel. Even something just short of the relationship between Schneider and Carroll would suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Im just all-in on the outside eyes (other than Holmgren). If they tell me all is well with this continuity, I will buy it. All due respect to Brandon, I dont think he knows what a successful football program looks like from the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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