The all Sam Bradford thread

[Hapless Bills Fan]

When Bradford went down (again) with injury, I knew his tenure with the Rams was over and suspected that he might end up with the Bills next season to push EJ. Even with his injury history, Bradford will attract many suitors and command a decent contract. With no 1st round pick and a new owner (and possibly new coach), I could see the bills overpaying for Bradford.

Thats assuming Bradford even hits the market as UFA. I would not be surprised if the Rams slap the franchise tag on him. If that happens, the Bills are out of the running with no 1st rounder

 

Again, I could be wrong and often am, but I would be shocked if the Rams franchise Bradford. In 5 years, all he's really established is an injury history and some flashes of potential. Players who get franchised are typically players who have a track record of high levels of play - the Brees in San Diego/Brees in NO type player. What's the franchise tag on a QB now? $18 million? $20 million? That's a lot of clams to rake up for a guy with two good half-seasons.

 

I personally am against the Bills pursuing him unless we pursue major upgrades to our OL. Bradford is very much a pocket passer. At least part of his trouble initially in St Louis was a couple of high-round OL busts.

 

Again, even with 14 tds and 4 ints, Bradford had a 48 qbr. He put up stats in garbage time & against the worst teams in the NFL.

 

Bradford had pretty good games against Carolina (12-4) Arizona (10-6) and Dallas (8-8) last year. I don't think you can call them "the worst teams in the NFL". He has the misfortune to play in a resurgent NFC West where Seattle, SF, and Zona 2x a season make it pretty rough sledding.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to define "garbage time" for me. As far as I can tell, it means your team gets behind and you fight like hell to come from behind and can't quite make it??? If you fought like hell and scored a few more points, it would no longer be "garbage time", it would be an impressive come from behind victory?

Edited October 16, 2014 by Hopeful

[RyanC883]

What is the likelihood that signing/acquiring Bradford or another QB of that caliber would cost us to lose Dareus?

 

I don't see that happening. We may loose Spiller, but not Dareus. Too valuable to the D-line, esp. with K. Williams getting older (but strangely, better every year).

 

Great post John!!

 

One more thing stemming off of it, no one is saying that Bradford is the savior. Realistically, what better options do the Bills have going into next year?!? You can only add guys that are available via the draft, a trade or FA. Even if the Bills had a 1st round pick you are going to be talking the middle of the round. I don't believe that Mariota or Cook will have been there anyways so who are we talking about handing the keys over to? Bryce Petty? Sean Mannion? What about via trade? I suppose that you can trade for Cousins but I don't see that making the Bills better. Hoyer and Bradford are the 2 guys that may hit the market and make a team better. Again, it's not perfect but you only have so many options.

 

Bingo. The "no Bradford" voters don't really seem to have a better option in mind. Just that Bradford is not Kelly. We don't need him to be Kelly, we need to get him and OL that can protect him. Watkins, Woods, Williams can do the rest.

[rfk]

Jeeze to we have to drool over every possible QB that may be available..Jeff Tuel has been impersonating Brady and dreaming about super models,,he should be ready to go...what about that nassib kid ...I heard he had some potential...wonder why we didn't know about him???

[Kirby Jackson]

Jeeze to we have to drool over every possible QB that may be available..Jeff Tuel has been impersonating Brady and dreaming about super models,,he should be ready to go...what about that nassib kid ...I heard he had some potential...wonder why we didn't know about him???

Bradford was the 1st overall pick that was on pace for 3,856 yards, 32 TDS and 9 INT's with a 60.7 completion percentage last year before getting hurt. He did that with bad talent. Those numbers would translate into the 2nd best season that a Bills QB has ever had!! That's quite different then a couple of late round fliers. No one is saying that Bradford is perfect but it is ridiculous to not even consider him. This holds especially true when analyzing what other options may be available to the Bills.

[FireChan]

Bradford was the 1st overall pick that was on pace for 3,856 yards, 32 TDS and 9 INT's with a 60.7 completion percentage last year before getting hurt. He did that with bad talent. Those numbers would translate into the 2nd best season that a Bills QB has ever had!! That's quite different then a couple of late round fliers. No one is saying that Bradford is perfect but it is ridiculous to not even consider him. This holds especially true when analyzing what other options may be available to the Bills.

 

I wish I got hurt while playing high school football. I probably would've gotten recruited after my 4 sack game because I was on pace for 40.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I wish I got hurt while playing high school football. I probably would've gotten recruited after my 4 sack game because I was on pace for 40.

He played 7 games last year or 44% of the season (not 10%).

[C.Biscuit97]

Again, I could be wrong and often am, but I would be shocked if the Rams franchise Bradford. In 5 years, all he's really established is an injury history and some flashes of potential. Players who get franchised are typically players who have a track record of high levels of play - the Brees in San Diego/Brees in NO type player. What's the franchise tag on a QB now? $18 million? $20 million? That's a lot of clams to rake up for a guy with two good half-seasons.

 

I personally am against the Bills pursuing him unless we pursue major upgrades to our OL. Bradford is very much a pocket passer. At least part of his trouble initially in St Louis was a couple of high-round OL busts.

 

 

 

Bradford had pretty good games against Carolina (12-4) Arizona (10-6) and Dallas (8-8) last year. I don't think you can call them "the worst teams in the NFL". He has the misfortune to play in a resurgent NFC West where Seattle, SF, and Zona 2x a season make it pretty rough sledding.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to define "garbage time" for me. As far as I can tell, it means your team gets behind and you fight like hell to come from behind and can't quite make it??? If you fought like hell and scored a few more points, it would no longer be "garbage time", it would be an impressive come from behind victory?

 

That's why you have to look past the box score. Arizona was his best game given the competition. They lost 31-7 to the Cowboys and we're down 27-12 to Carolina.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331020029

 

It's why QBR is a good stat. It takes into account the game situation. Bradford put up a lot of stats in garbage time. EJ Manuel, who everyone hates now, had a 42 QBR as a rookie. Bradford had a 48. Add his injury history, it is a very risky investment. He simply hasn't been healthy or good enough.

 

Bradford was the 1st overall pick that was on pace for 3,856 yards, 32 TDS and 9 INT's with a 60.7 completion percentage last year before getting hurt. He did that with bad talent. Those numbers would translate into the 2nd best season that a Bills QB has ever had!! That's quite different then a couple of late round fliers. No one is saying that Bradford is perfect but it is ridiculous to not even consider him. This holds especially true when analyzing what other options may be available to the Bills.

 

Austin Davis has a higher QBR with the basically the same cast than Bradford had in 2013.

[FireChan]

He played 7 games last year or 44% of the season (not 10%).

 

It was a joke, Kirby. I'm already on the Pro-Bradford train.

 

 

 

That's why you have to look past the box score. Arizona was his best game given the competition. They lost 31-7 to the Cowboys and we're down 27-12 to Carolina.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331020029

 

It's why QBR is a good stat. It takes into account the game situation. Bradford put up a lot of stats in garbage time. EJ Manuel, who everyone hates now, had a 42 QBR as a rookie. Bradford had a 48. Add his injury history, it is a very risky investment. He simply hasn't been healthy or good enough.

 

 

 

Austin Davis has a higher QBR with the basically the same cast than Bradford had in 2013.

 

So Bradford has a higher QBR than EJ? Why wouldn't we take him?

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

It was a joke, Kirby. I'm already on the Pro-Bradford train.

 

 

 

So Bradford has a higher QBR than EJ? Why wouldn't we take him?

Ha ha, I never know who is where. I think that he is a decent (and realistic) option. Yes, I would rather have Andrew Luck like everyone else on here. There is a crowd that has some realistic options and then another crowd that says "yeah but the Bills haven't found a way to get an Andrew Luck type." We'd all love to have a top 5-10 QB and are open to whatever options that anyone has to offer. Please do not say "should have taken Wilson in the 3rd or Brady in the 6th." You can't pick your next QB using hindsight. Who is the ideal starting QB for the Bills next year? Orton? EJ? Bradford? Hoyer? Cousins? Petty? Locker? Hundley?

[/dev/null]

Again, I could be wrong and often am, but I would be shocked if the Rams franchise Bradford. In 5 years, all he's really established is an injury history and some flashes of potential. Players who get franchised are typically players who have a track record of high levels of play - the Brees in San Diego/Brees in NO type player. What's the franchise tag on a QB now? $18 million? $20 million? That's a lot of clams to rake up for a guy with two good half-seasons.

If the Rams franchise Bradford, it's because they're trying to leverage a draft pick instead of letting him walk for nothing

[John from Riverside]

I disagree with the way you framed the issue. No one is looking for a savior that doesn't exist. What all teams do is constantly search to improve the team and depth. Hughes didn't work out in Indianapolis but he has been an impact player for us. For the previous few years both Urbik and Pears were functional players who upgraded (to an extent) the positions they played.

 

As far as your example of TE Tony Moeaki what was the harm in bringing him in? He had some intriquing physical abilities. The staff gave him a good look and it didn't work out. He simply couldn't overcome his propensity to being injured. DT Charles is certainly contributing. I believe we got him off of another team's practice squad.

 

Hoyer was a long time backup in New England. He rarely got an opportunity to play. He is far from being an all-star but he is good enugh to stabilize Cleveland's offense and give them a chance to be a good team. Orton at best is a fringe qb. Not only is he a dramatic improvement over EJ he also gives the Bills a chance to compete against most teams, something that Manuel couldn't do.

 

 

 

No team is going to give away talented players. But rosters are limited and end of the roster players and developing players for some teams can be good players for teams that have position needs. Without a doubt a team with a losing history can't afford to be dismissive of any options to getting better, even marginally so.

 

A couple of things on Bradford......

 

I agree with the references to Kolb....except for Kolb it was head injuries....concussions. Bradford has had injuries that actually heal even if he has had injury prone issues.

 

The one factor here is....with Kolb you only had the rook EJ Manuel to fall back on......in this situation you have Orton to fall back on if Bradford gets hurt....to me that is a HUGE difference. You have the ultimate backup QB coming out of the bullpen.

 

I really expect this team to be heavy in the market for experienced veteran offensive guards.....because our OT's are pretty darn good. It amazes me that we cannot find any now.

[Mr. WEO]

I don't see that happening. We may loose Spiller, but not Dareus. Too valuable to the D-line, esp. with K. Williams getting older (but strangely, better every year).

 

 

 

Bingo. The "no Bradford" voters don't really seem to have a better option in mind. Just that Bradford is not Kelly. We don't need him to be Kelly, we need to get him and OL that can protect him. Watkins, Woods, Williams can do the rest.

 

If Orton leads us to the playoffs (hey, still could happen), why would you want the Bills to spend any money on the most fragile QB to come out of the 1st round in years?

 

This isn't a thrice operated on Peyton Manning. It's a guy who when healthy put half a better than average season together once.

 

Let's say Bradford, by some mirale, did not go out for the season for the 3rd time in 5 years, and instead pumped out another 20 TD, 14 int, 3600yd, 60% completion 16 game performance--and then was a FA next year. Would anyone be clamoring for the guy?

[NoSaint]

If the Rams franchise Bradford, it's because they're trying to leverage a draft pick instead of letting him walk for nothing

 

Though it would be particularly shocking as he's in a 6 year agreement

[Turbosrrgood]

Just wondering everyone's thoughts on him. Doesn't appear he'll get his job back in St. Louis. Would you like us to bring him in? I would love to see him and a qb we draft battle it out for the job.

 

I've been saying for a while that Bradford is a likely option next offseason. And I may be in the minority but he's a good one. When healthy, he really has been a good QB. In fact I think the Bills would be lucky to have him, as surely other teams will also be interested (Jets?).

 

I am highly skeptical that the BIlls will try to draft another QB in the first 2 days next year, I doubt they want to. Their plan will likely be Orton, and possibly a FA like Bradford.

 

Bradford is almost guaranteed to be cut, due to his ridiculous rookie contract.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Turbosrrgood

[kickedface]

if the money was right i'd say go for it. the dude is made of glass though. he can produce when he's healthy

[papazoid]

If the Rams franchise Bradford, it's because they're trying to leverage a draft pick instead of letting him walk for nothing

 

 

2015 estimated franchise tag value for QB's is $18.3 mil

 

they're NOT tagging him.

 

he would sign and take the guaranteed money in a heartbeat. the rams would be stuck with him.

 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24749485/nfl-franchise-tags-position-by-position-projected-numbers

[Augie]

Please do not say "should have taken Wilson in the 3rd or Brady in the 6th." You can't pick your next QB using hindsight. Who is the ideal starting QB for the Bills next year? Orton? EJ? Bradford? Hoyer? Cousins? Petty? Locker? Hundley?

 

That's an easy one. I'll let you know in 3 years.

 

For the record, I think taking a long hard look at Bradford makes all the sense in the world. And I think we have a team that would make a good QB (or coach) give us serious consideration.

[RyanC883]

Ha ha, I never know who is where. I think that he is a decent (and realistic) option. Yes, I would rather have Andrew Luck like everyone else on here. There is a crowd that has some realistic options and then another crowd that says "yeah but the Bills haven't found a way to get an Andrew Luck type." We'd all love to have a top 5-10 QB and are open to whatever options that anyone has to offer. Please do not say "should have taken Wilson in the 3rd or Brady in the 6th." You can't pick your next QB using hindsight. Who is the ideal starting QB for the Bills next year? Orton? EJ? Bradford? Hoyer? Cousins? Petty? Locker? Hundley?

 

I agree with you 100%. No one wants to face reality, and that reality is that Bradford is the best option for next year, if we have a solid backup. Otherwise I'd rather roll with Orton and Hundley perhaps as the backup, competing with EJ.

[NoSaint]

 

 

 

2015 estimated franchise tag value for QB's is $18.3 mil

 

they're NOT tagging him.

 

he would sign and take the guaranteed money in a heartbeat. the rams would be stuck with him.

 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24749485/nfl-franchise-tags-position-by-position-projected-numbers

 

ill mention again, hes only in year 5 of a 6 year contract. so tagging him would be a challenge.

[JohnC]

Ha ha, I never know who is where. I think that he is a decent (and realistic) option. Yes, I would rather have Andrew Luck like everyone else on here. There is a crowd that has some realistic options and then another crowd that says "yeah but the Bills haven't found a way to get an Andrew Luck type." We'd all love to have a top 5-10 QB and are open to whatever options that anyone has to offer. Please do not say "should have taken Wilson in the 3rd or Brady in the 6th." You can't pick your next QB using hindsight. Who is the ideal starting QB for the Bills next year? Orton? EJ? Bradford? Hoyer? Cousins? Petty? Locker? Hundley?

 

What the critics don't understand is that you respond to the situation you are in (as you noted) not in the ideal situation you wish you were in. Sometimes you get lucky. Kurt Warner was a garbage heap player who played in the arena football league. At a relatively old age he got an opportunity and seized on it. During a three or four year stint he was as good as any qb in the game, including Brady and Manning. His accuracy, quick reads and release were at an HOF level. Granted his success was over a short duration but during that period of time he led two teams to the SB, winning one.

 

Whaley gave up a lot to select Watkins. He has shown that he is capable of being a premier player. But that expensive deal is not going to have a payoff unless the qb play is upgraded. There are no guarantees in this business other than if you don't try something out of fear of failure you will never succeed.