2013 Draft Revisited

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

This knee jerk reaction to every game is so silly.

it sure is.

[Orton's Arm]

Yes, but look back at the picks made after EJ was there anyone that you think be more valuable? Toss in he looks to be the best QB of his class. I know some will point to Glennon but meh his record isn't all that great and wonder if he just piles up stats because the Bucs are in worse shape than the Bills.

 

I wasn't a big Robert Woods fan going into the draft he's grown on me but one has to wonder would Keenan Allen be a better pick?

 

I'm willing to bet Alonso comes back, he might not be elite next year as it usually takes a year or two for guys to full recover.

 

I wasn't sold on Goodwin then and I'm not now.

 

Duke Williams was bad Sunday but he's a backup and when he's asked to play that role he's been okay.

 

Not sure why we took Meeks then.

 

If Hopkins doesn't get hurt his rookie season I think he'd be kicking for us today. That said never waste a draft pick on a kicker.

 

I'd love to see Gragg get more playing time. I'm not saying he'll be a starting TE but think he might be better than a 3rd stringer.

 

> Toss in he looks to be the best QB of his class.

 

It was an extremely weak class. There was nobody in particular in it except for Glennon. And even Glennon seems to have a Ryan Fitzpatrick-type ceiling. (I'm not talking about his physical ceiling; but about his overall ceiling. Accuracy, decision-making, etc.) Glennon isn't necessarily a long-term answer for the Bucs. As for the second-best QB in that class, the current front runners are Manuel and Geno. But it wouldn't shock me if some other quarterback emerged from his present relative obscurity to claim that #2 ranking for his own.

 

Robert Woods seems like a decent selection. Assuming he stays healthy--the highlight of this draft will have been Alonzo. I wish the draft had provided more than just Alonzo and Woods. But it didn't; and the guy at least nominally in charge of it has already been replaced.

[San-O]

Grading a draft less than 2 years after it happened is always smart.

 

Why not? Which assessment do you not agree with? Currently out of that draft the Bills have 1 starter: a # 2 receiver who does seem to get many looks.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15880/robert-woods

 

This is how teams end up missing the playoffs for so many years. IMO.

[st pete gogolak]

Dan LeBatard (who I think is pretty much a jerk) was discussing who is a better receiver - Jordy Nelson or Brian Hartline. Bottom line is that it's not as ridiculous a question as it appears because one has Aaron Rogers throwing to him and the other has Ryan Tannehill. Put the Bills' wideouts on Green Bay and they'd all be under discussion for All-Pro.

[JPS]

I always wonder what the reason is for a post like this. Complaining in hindsight is weak and leads to boring and predictable conversation. Now if you tell me that you PREVIOUSLY posted what is proving to be the perfect draft for 2013, that's one thing. But to criticize this young and unproven (either way) crop of prospects 18 months after they were picked is just plain weak.

[jr1]

RD2: Kiko Alonso

Solid TV chef presence. Very poised in the kitchen.

[San-O]

I always wonder what the reason is for a post like this. Complaining in hindsight is weak and leads to boring and predictable conversation. Now if you tell me that you PREVIOUSLY posted what is proving to be the perfect draft for 2013, that's one thing. But to criticize this young and unproven (either way) crop of prospects 18 months after they were picked is just plain weak.

 

We can talk about how bad the O-line is?

[K-9]

Get back to me after year three.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Nanker]

Personally, I look forward to the 2015 Draft Revisited thread.

[San-O]

Personally, I look forward to the 2015 Draft Revisited thread.

 

That's going to be a shorter thread!!!

[truth on hold]

Another way to think about how this draft is to consider each players trade value in draft terms:

 

EJ: going to be generous and say a 5th

 

Woods: 2nd or 3rd

 

Kiko: due to injury a 3rd

 

Goodwin: 5th or 6th

 

Duke Williams: nothing

 

Meeks: nothing

 

Hopkins: nothing

 

Gragg: 6th

 

So about a year and half into playing time, there's a severe downward drift and the draft is worth far lower, with only 1 player (Gragg) worth more and that's only moving from last round up one. People can use their own judgment for each, but IMO no reasonable assessment will be far off.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Orton's Arm]

Another way to think about how this draft is going is to consider each players trade value in draft terms:

 

EJ: going to be generous and say a 5th

 

Woods: 2nd or 3rd

 

Kiko: due to injury a 3rd

 

Goodwin: 5th or 6th

 

Duke Williams: nothing

 

Meeks: nothing

 

Hopkins: nothing

 

Gragg: 6th

 

So about a year and half into playing time, there's a severe downwars dridt and the draft is worth far lower, with only 1 player (Gragg) worth more and that's only moving from last round up one. People can use their own judgment for each, but IMO no reasonable assessment will be far off.

 

That's a good way of looking at it. I'd argue we could get more than a third for Kiko--especially if he comes back healthy next season and performs at or above his rookie year standards--but other than that, it's hard to disagree with much of anything from your post.

[Endless Ike]

Woods isn't physical enough to be a sold #2.

 

You're crazy. Bob Woods is a grown-ass man.

[Nitro]

The whole 2013 draft class has been under whelming. A few bright spots but over all the talent was not there. Experts pointed to 2014 as a deeper and more talent laden draft. Give it 2 more years to grade it,

[thewildrabbit]

That draft would still look significantly better had the GM replaced Andy Levitre with something other then utter garbage in Colin Brown, and bolstered the backup center position with someone better then Doug Legursky. Levitre leaving is still haunting this team two off seasons later because this FO refuses to bring in quality offensive guards.

 

That 70 year old goober Buddy Nix has done more damage to this team then any regime in the past. Not only with bad draft selections, but with his moronic philosophy's concerning the O line. It seems you can't just flip an OT into the OG spot if he can't cut it at tackle. Offensive guards aren't exactly a dime a dozen either. Those ideas he has instilled into Whaley have screwed the team for two years now. Oh, and he is still a paid consultant with the team. Why, I don't know.

 

EJ might still become a decent starter should the team ever decide to fix the line properly. This week it will have 3 rookies starting, and all not doing so well. What does it say about the GM/ scouting dept when the 7th rounder out performs the 2nd rounder.

 

 

Better days are coming as new ownership should correct a lot of things wrong with this team. Start thinking early 90's Bills

[NoSaint]

Get back to me after year three.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Kiki should be good - I think it's ridiculous that posters are acting like a reliable starting wr with a second round pick is a fail.

 

The safeties might be tricky as the scheme they were drafted to be projects in is gone. Never a good situation.

[Orton's Arm]

That draft would still look significantly better had the GM replaced Andy Levitre with something other then utter garbage in Colin Brown, and bolstered the backup center position with someone better then Doug Legursky. Levitre leaving is still haunting this team two off seasons later because this FO refuses to bring in quality offensive guards.

 

That 70 year old goober Buddy Nix has done more damage to this team then any regime in the past. Not only with bad draft selections, but with his moronic philosophy's concerning the O line. It seems you can't just flip an OT into the OG spot if he can't cut it at tackle. Offensive guards aren't exactly a dime a dozen either. Those ideas he has instilled into Whaley have screwed the team for two years now. Oh, and he is still a paid consultant with the team. Why, I don't know.

 

EJ might still become a decent starter should the team ever decide to fix the line properly. This week it will have 3 rookies starting, and all not doing so well. What does it say about the GM/ scouting dept when the 7th rounder out performs the 2nd rounder.

 

 

Better days are coming as new ownership should correct a lot of things wrong with this team. Start thinking early 90's Bills

 

> Start thinking early 90's Bills

 

Except that this team doesn't have a Jim Kelly. Or a Thurman Thomas. Or a Bill Polian. Or a Kent Hull or Jim Ritcher.

 

> That draft would still look significantly better had the GM replaced Andy Levitre with something other then utter garbage in Colin Brown,

 

Hard to argue with that. A vague hint of credibility along the OL would completely transform the offense.

 

> EJ might still become a decent starter should the team ever decide to fix the line properly.

 

No. There's no significant aspect of E.J. Manuel's game that either is better or looks likely to become better than the same aspect of J.P. Losman's game. Manuel is not more accurate than Losman, isn't better at processing information than Losman, and doesn't have significantly better physical tools than those Losman had. Nor--to be perfectly blunt--does he have Losman's ability to hit Lee Evans-like targets on long bombs. There is no reason to believe Manuel will have a better career than the one Losman had. Losman has been out of the league for years now, due to his inability to make a final roster cut. By the time Manuel reaches Losman's current age, he'll have been out of the league for years too.

 

But even in the highly unlikely event Manuel somehow manages to become a "decent starter," that doesn't put us on the same footing we were on in the early '90s. Nor does it put us on better footing than we have currently, because we already have a decent starter in the form of Kyle Orton.

[Augie]

The better the team gets, the harder it is for new guys to crack the lineup. I'm not saying that's the answer to bad draft picks, but I think that's going to be a factor going forward. Good teams get used to that. (I'm feeling much more optimistic than I was around 3:30pm last Sunday.)

[thewildrabbit]

> Start thinking early 90's Bills

 

Except that this team doesn't have a Jim Kelly. Or a Thurman Thomas. Or a Bill Polian. Or a Kent Hull or Jim Ritcher.

 

> That draft would still look significantly better had the GM replaced Andy Levitre with something other then utter garbage in Colin Brown,

 

Hard to argue with that. A vague hint of credibility along the OL would completely transform the offense.

 

> EJ might still become a decent starter should the team ever decide to fix the line properly.

 

No. There's no significant aspect of E.J. Manuel's game that either is better or looks likely to become better than the same aspect of J.P. Losman's game. Manuel is not more accurate than Losman, isn't better at processing information than Losman, and doesn't have significantly better physical tools than those Losman had. Nor--to be perfectly blunt--does he have Losman's ability to hit Lee Evans-like targets on long bombs. There is no reason to believe Manuel will have a better career than the one Losman had. Losman has been out of the league for years now, due to his inability to make a final roster cut. By the time Manuel reaches Losman's current age, he'll have been out of the league for years too.

 

But even in the highly unlikely event Manuel somehow manages to become a "decent starter," that doesn't put us on the same footing we were on in the early '90s. Nor does it put us on better footing than we have currently, because we already have a decent starter in the form of Kyle Orton.

All it really takes to start moving to that quality of wins from the early 90's is some real football smarts in the front office. Speaking of Bill Polian, as he may just become a consultant with the team. Stranger things have happened.

 

I'm fairly confidant that at some point soon the team will hire an excellent football side president so Kim Pegula as the new CEO isn't bothered every other hour for a decision of some sort. Why am I so confidant you ask? If you research the Pegula's they hire top people to help run their business ventures. Just the same way they hired a firm to successfully purchase the Buffalo Bills. Think a Bill Polian type as president, a Bill Cowher- Jim Harbaugh as head coach.

 

I feel the Bills have a Thurman Thomas already in Fred Jackson, as he is a great locker room- team leader who plays every play with great heart. Did you know that Thurman played his entire career on bad ankles, and just taped them up and went out every game with no complaining. A damn shame Fred had to play for a cluster of morons with each new regime, and he never did get to play behind a great line or on a winning team in Buffalo. That may happen yet, as the Bills only need a few players, coaches to turn things around. Look what happened when Jim Harbaugh took over in San Francisco from 6-10 to 13-3 in one year, and did that with a QB that almost everyone, everywhere had given up on as being a capable QB. (yea they did, as Smith went 3-7 in 2010).

 

 

Just look how poorly Brady looked this year at Arrowhead against the Chiefs. All I heard was he was done, bench him, the dynasty is over, bring in Richie Incognito....and yet. When EJ was drafted Mike Mayock stated he would take a good 3 years to properly develop, and he should spend at least one year on the bench learning, growing, developing. That he wasn't starting QB material as a rookie, and even his college coach stated as such. Then what do the morons at OBD do, they send the kid out throwing in only his 14th game start against a team with a bad defense against the run, and a fierce pass rush with the best defender in the NFL on their D line. Some QB's simply take a few years before they get up to the speed of the NFL, and start processing things faster. It usually helps if they don't get concussed 6x times along the way like Trent Edwards did.

 

 

Lets not forget that the team won those first two games with EJ at QB, and against Chicago they rushed 33 times for 193 yards, and only threw 22 times for 173 yards. An absolute perfect way to run the offense with a young QB starting. Then against Miami it was 33 rushes for 113 yards, and 26 passes for 202 yards, and again a near perfect way to run an offense.

 

Then against the last 4 teams the mental midget OC has the QB throw 40 times a game while rushing only 20 times a game, and the result was 3 out of 4 losses. Then the Bills could have easily lost that game in Detroit if their kicker doesn't have a meltdown. I almost wonder if the current OC is taking bribes to throw games, or is he really this stupid?

What does it say about the Bills OC when he uses the player the Bills just spent two first round picks on, and perhaps the best play making WR since Andre Reed as a decoy? Find a way to get the kid involved, reverses, fake reverses, end around runs, in the slot, screens, anything. He should be seeing the ball at the minimum 10 times a game. Last week against the Patriots 3 targets, 2 catches for 27 years. Extrapolate that out to 10 catches.

 

 

Two decent top offensive guards, and the team is remarkably better at run blocking, pass blocking, and the surrounding players suddenly start playing better because they only need to worry about their own responsibilities on that line. Wood & Glenn both played so much better with Levitre next to them. A top TE, and suddenly the QB has a constant outlet besides the RB's. A great TE is a young QB's best friend. No offense to Scott Chandler, as he does make some decent catches...sometimes. He just isn't all that good a blocker, or play maker after he catches the ball.

 

 

Lastly, I don't see this coaching staff or GM being retained unless they remove their heads from their posteriors asap, and the GM finds some good OG's. The Bills OC stops setting up moronic game plans, and calling for 40 passes a game, and starts to run the ball like he did against the Bears, Dolphins. Yea, its that simple.

[FireChan]

All it really takes to start moving to that quality of wins from the early 90's is some real football smarts in the front office. Speaking of Bill Polian, as he may just become a consultant with the team. Stranger things have happened.

 

I'm fairly confidant that at some point soon the team will hire an excellent football side president so Kim Pegula as the new CEO isn't bothered every other hour for a decision of some sort. Why am I so confidant you ask? If you research the Pegula's they hire top people to help run their business ventures. Just the same way they hired a firm to successfully purchase the Buffalo Bills. Think a Bill Polian type as president, a Bill Cowher- Jim Harbaugh as head coach.

 

I feel the Bills have a Thurman Thomas already in Fred Jackson, as he is a great locker room- team leader who plays every play with great heart. Did you know that Thurman played his entire career on bad ankles, and just taped them up and went out every game with no complaining. A damn shame Fred had to play for a cluster of morons with each new regime, and he never did get to play behind a great line or on a winning team in Buffalo. That may happen yet, as the Bills only need a few players, coaches to turn things around. Look what happened when Jim Harbaugh took over in San Francisco from 6-10 to 13-3 in one year, and did that with a QB that almost everyone, everywhere had given up on as being a capable QB. (yea they did, as Smith went 3-7 in 2010).

 

 

Just look how poorly Brady looked this year at Arrowhead against the Chiefs. All I heard was he was done, bench him, the dynasty is over, bring in Richie Incognito....and yet. When EJ was drafted Mike Mayock stated he would take a good 3 years to properly develop, and he should spend at least one year on the bench learning, growing, developing. That he wasn't starting QB material as a rookie, and even his college coach stated as such. Then what do the morons at OBD do, they send the kid out throwing in only his 14th game start against a team with a bad defense against the run, and a fierce pass rush with the best defender in the NFL on their D line. Some QB's simply take a few years before they get up to the speed of the NFL, and start processing things faster. It usually helps if they don't get concussed 6x times along the way like Trent Edwards did.

 

 

Lets not forget that the team won those first two games with EJ at QB, and against Chicago they rushed 33 times for 193 yards, and only threw 22 times for 173 yards. An absolute perfect way to run the offense with a young QB starting. Then against Miami it was 33 rushes for 113 yards, and 26 passes for 202 yards, and again a near perfect way to run an offense.

 

Then against the last 4 teams the mental midget OC has the QB throw 40 times a game while rushing only 20 times a game, and the result was 3 out of 4 losses. Then the Bills could have easily lost that game in Detroit if their kicker doesn't have a meltdown. I almost wonder if the current OC is taking bribes to throw games, or is he really this stupid?

What does it say about the Bills OC when he uses the player the Bills just spent two first round picks on, and perhaps the best play making WR since Andre Reed as a decoy? Find a way to get the kid involved, reverses, fake reverses, end around runs, in the slot, screens, anything. He should be seeing the ball at the minimum 10 times a game. Last week against the Patriots 3 targets, 2 catches for 27 years. Extrapolate that out to 10 catches.

 

 

Two decent top offensive guards, and the team is remarkably better at run blocking, pass blocking, and the surrounding players suddenly start playing better because they only need to worry about their own responsibilities on that line. Wood & Glenn both played so much better with Levitre next to them. A top TE, and suddenly the QB has a constant outlet besides the RB's. A great TE is a young QB's best friend. No offense to Scott Chandler, as he does make some decent catches...sometimes. He just isn't all that good a blocker, or play maker after he catches the ball.

 

 

Lastly, I don't see this coaching staff or GM being retained unless they remove their heads from their posteriors asap, and the GM finds some good OG's. The Bills OC stops setting up moronic game plans, and calling for 40 passes a game, and starts to run the ball like he did against the Bears, Dolphins. Yea, its that simple.

 

If I hear one more thing about a "top TE" I'm going to scream. How many first round draft picks and All-Pros do we need on offense for a young QB to do well?