The Big Cat Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I can tell you that what Spiller has achieved in the NFL is a heck of a lot more than what NH has achieved. Why should anyone be giving NH the benefit of the doubt? Did he have a revolutionary offense at Syracuse like Kelly had? No. This guy brings nothing new to the table. So I'm not going to get all over Spiller the way I will over NH. That's my viewpoint. That's all. Which achievement are you referring to?
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Spiller had 1.5 good years, so did Josh Freeman. Hell, Chris Johnson used to be amazing. Whats your point in attacking Nate Hakett's resume? NH has had 0 good years. Again, to the bold, thats in large part due to Spillers ineffectiveness. Like I said FJ is on pace to do MORE yards from scrimmage than last year. Spillers numbers are the ones that are down. In large part due to Spiller's ineffectiveness? Come on man.
CountDorkula Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Spiller had 1.5 good years, so did Josh Freeman. Hell, Chris Johnson used to be amazing. Whats your point in attacking Nate Hakett's resume? Whats your point on defending it? We traded up for Sammy Watkins because he is a game changer, Yet they can find a way to get the ball into his hands. No WR screens, no end around. 3 Targets in a game.
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) i guess, to get back on track here - for those defending hackett, would you say the following: "nate hackett is properly using CJ Spiller" it seems the closest ive seen is nate hackett shouldnt be using spiller, which would be an agreement that he isnt getting it right, no matter what you think of CJ Edited October 14, 2014 by NoSaint
CountDorkula Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Which achievement are you referring to? Which team would trade their O Coordinator for Hackett? Go...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Whats your point on defending it? We traded up for Sammy Watkins because he is a game changer, Yet they can find a way to get the ball into his hands. No WR screens, no end around. 3 Targets in a game. So we are going to use 1 game as a measuring stick? Seriously? What about the Detroit game? What about the Miami game? The people here defending Spiller are defending one player. Meanwhile every other player on offense is finding their grove. Chandler has a monster game against the Pats*. Hogan is getting in on the mix. FJ is on a steady course to repeat last year. Woods is back on track with Orton under center. But Spiller isn't doing well, so, obviously it's Hackett's fault. Edited October 14, 2014 by Wayne Cubed
CountDorkula Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 So we are going to use 1 game as a measuring stick? Seriously? What about the Detroit game? What about the Miami game? The people here defending Spiller are defending one player. Meanwhile every other player on offense is finding their grove. Chandler has a monster game against the Pats*. Hogan is getting in on the mix. FJ is on a steady course to repeat last year. Woods is back on track with Orton under center. But Spiller isn't doing well, so, obviously it's Hackett's fault. Yea no. I have not once defended Spiller. he Can been traded/released. The team is avg 3.7 YPC. Third worst in the NFL. That is not all on Spiller. Hating Spiller is fine, but saying Hackett has no blame is foolish as hell.
FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Yea no. I have not once defended Spiller. he Can been traded/released. The team is avg 3.7 YPC. Third worst in the NFL. That is not all on Spiller. Hating Spiller is fine, but saying Hackett has no blame is foolish as hell. Fred Jackson averages 4.4 YPC. Spiller has 3.4 YPC. How is that number not his fault?
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Either Hackett is very stubborn or he's as unable to figure out the big offensive picture; sort of like how Spiller is unable to figure out how to get around the corner or find an inside sliver to sneak through (that's of course if there are any inside slivers given this offensive line).
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 i guess, to get back on track here - for those defending hackett, would you say the following: "nate hackett is properly using CJ Spiller" it seems the closest ive seen is nate hackett shouldnt be using spiller, which would be an agreement that he isnt getting it right, no matter what you think of CJ anyone?
FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) anyone? That's a loaded question. Why don't you ask if Martone is using Pears correctly? Even if you say he shouldn't be using Pears, that still means he isn't getting it right. Edited October 14, 2014 by FireChan
GG Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 anyone? Is it a fair question when considering the design of the offense that started in late spring? How much of the offensive limitations are due to a dumbed down offense to ease a "rookie" project QB into the NFL? How much can the offensive foundation change in midseason?
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) That's a loaded question. Why don't you ask if Martone is using Pears correctly? Even if you say he shouldn't be using Pears, that still means he isn't getting it right. so your saying that we dont have other competent backs that could do what hes asking of spiller? it sounds like many are arguing the freddy is doing it well, why not give him the bulk of the carries at that point then. right now hes not setting the guy up for success. some blame spillers lack of ability, some say spiller could be successful in a better situation. the topic of the thread is if hes being properly used - and i havent seen a single person make that point. Edited October 14, 2014 by NoSaint
Big Gun Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I'm afraid it is going to get worse. Hackett has been figured out and cannot adjust, IMO. or maybe it will get better as the bills have played 4 of the top 7 defenses in their first 6 games.
FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 so your saying that we dont have other competent backs that could do what hes asking of spiller? it sounds like many are arguing the freddy is doing it well, why not give him the bulk of the carries at that point then. right now hes not setting the guy up for success. some blame spillers lack of ability, some say spiller could be successful in a better situation. the topic of the thread is if hes being properly used - and i havent seen a single person make that point. No. I just didn't like how you worded that question. You made it sound, IMO, like it was Hackett's fault that CJ is playing poorly, no matter what. Which I don't agree with. I don't think Hackett is misusing Spiller. I really don't. He's asking Spiller to read simple blocks and run simple plays. Is Hackett "misusing" EJ when he asks him to complete a wide open pass in the flat, and EJ misses him? I think the only reason that Spiller hasn't been benched is because of his big play potential, which does still exist. His inconsistency is maddening, but no one can deny the value of him ripping off a 40 yarder, even if it happens sparingly.
hondo in seattle Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 As has been said maybe a million times in various threads, Hackett has a lot to learn. Spiller would be more effective in a different offense run by a different OC. He'd also be more effective if we had a better OL. And, finally, he'd be more effective if he was stronger and hit "holes" (as much as the OL creates them) with decisiveness. Mods, can we merge the Hackett-is-a-failure thread?
nonprophet Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Yeah, that was awful. I've been a big CJ supporter but I'm starting to think that he's just too dumb to learn. If he could slow down, set up his blocks, and then take off he'd be unstoppable. Problem is he's only got one speed. Those bounce outs would be more effective if the defense committed to the middle first, but he's already changed direction and running sideways before they even get out of position. It's awful. And when he doesn't bounce out he runs straight into a defender 9 out of 10 times. Strangely, the much slower Fred Jackson finds room in there, and it's not like he's knocking guys over at the LOS every other play. He finds a crease and takes what's there. CJ just doesn't get it, and he's a pretty old guy not to get it. I'm starting to think he never will. Someone should transplant FJ's head onto CJ's body to build the perfect RB.
CookieG Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 No offense to you, because you didn't write the piece, but this 'bloggers' solution is to run sweeps? Ok, and that'll work for a total of 2 weeks tops and then defenses will figure out thats all their doing with Spiller. So then what? Spiller has to be able to run inside to establish the outside runs. Keep defenses honest. In fact, I'd argue that defense know Spiller can't run inside and therefore hope that he kicks it out, which doesn't and hasn't worked. I just don't buy that Spiller can't be an at least somewhat effective inside runner when guys like McCoy and Charles. and no offense to you...(sincerely), but if you have sunday's game on DVR, go back and watch the running plays. Of the 23 rushes, I counted 20 that were designed to go up the middle. There were 2 plays for Spiller designed over the tackle, 1 to each side There was a run between Richardson and Glenn, so I'm not calling that a run over the middle, though some might Spiller bounced one to the outside, Freddie bounced one, Boobie bounced two. -If you want to keep a defense honest, you might not design 87% of your running plays to go up the middle. -I mean, the line doesn't even have to shout, "we're running up the gut, try to stop us!!" ...because the D already knows that. -As far as others doing well in this imaginative attack...Freddie averaged 2.6 ypc Sunday, and Boobie 3.3. That's 17 carries for a whopping 49 yards between them. -Only NH would consider a sweep, a pitch or any other off tackle running play a "gadget play". Fun is fun, but damn...20 of 23 plays were essentially the same running play. Its pathetic that the game plan for a rushing attack fits on the back of a business card.
2003Contenders Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 The problems with the offense are multifaceted. 1. In Hackett's defense, I suspect that a good portion of the playbook has been whittled down, first due to EJ's inexperience and then due to the fact that Orton arrived a mere week before the season started. I also believe that if the passing game starts to ignite that defenses will be less inclined to crowd the box. 2. Spiller does not do enough things well to get the number of carries that many of his fans long for. He is a liability in pass protection, doesn't have great vision and situationally unaware way too often. His football IQ is severely lacking. With that said, he IS very talented -- and can score from anywhere on the field. Teams must game plan for him -- the problem is that he is easy to game plan for. I wonder what Bryce Brown is lacking that keeps him inactive every week.
Wayne Cubed Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 and no offense to you...(sincerely), but if you have sunday's game on DVR, go back and watch the running plays. Of the 23 rushes, I counted 20 that were designed to go up the middle. There were 2 plays for Spiller designed over the tackle, 1 to each side There was a run between Richardson and Glenn, so I'm not calling that a run over the middle, though some might Spiller bounced one to the outside, Freddie bounced one, Boobie bounced two. -If you want to keep a defense honest, you might not design 87% of your running plays to go up the middle. -I mean, the line doesn't even have to shout, "we're running up the gut, try to stop us!!" ...because the D already knows that. -As far as others doing well in this imaginative attack...Freddie averaged 2.6 ypc Sunday, and Boobie 3.3. That's 17 carries for a whopping 49 yards between them. -Only NH would consider a sweep, a pitch or any other off tackle running play a "gadget play". Fun is fun, but damn...20 of 23 plays were essentially the same running play. Its pathetic that the game plan for a rushing attack fits on the back of a business card. That's a great analysis of one game, but FJ is averaging 4.4 YPC for the year. He averaged 4.9 against against a very good Detroit defense. CJ averaged 0.8 on the same number of attempts. Against Houston FJ averaged 4.7, CJ averaged 4. Against San Diego FJ averaged 5.6, CJ averaged 2.5. Against Miami FJ averaged 2.0, CJ averaged 5.7. And finally against Chicago FJ averaged 9.5 while CJ averaged 3.8. You see what I'm getting at? Your comment about "others doing well in this imaginative attack" maybe holds true for the Pats* game but it certainly doesn't for any others. FJ is doing just fine in it. That also tells me running up the middle, for the most part is working, except for with CJ.
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